Reduce or cancel Auto Train to relieve shortages

[Swadian Hardcore]

It looks like the Auto Train is running at full capacity. Yet Amtrak has far more routes that could also use those railcars, and the Auto Train is not open to independant passengers. Which means that certain other Superliner routes could be far more important, even if they don't generate as much revenue. The TE and CONO are in great need of Superliners, and the CL, SWC, or SL could also use more cars.

So, from a railfan's viewpoint, would you like to sacrafice part or all or the Auto Train just to make important trains longer?

Maybe Amtrak could make the AT seasonal, or reduce the summer AT, because FL gets a lot of winter traffic, but the EB/CZ/CS all get good summer traffic.

This way, you could reduce multiple capacity problems on the other trains while leaving only one capacity problem for the Auto Train. Sounds like a good trade-off to me.

Adding cars to the short trains don't result in HEP problems. Besides, we could still ride the route on the Silvers.

 

[MattW]

Why cancel something that's actually running full and making more money than these other routes?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Why get rid of something that is actually making money?

 

[NY Penn]

I think he means shuffle the cars around: during the summer (AT lower ridership, other routes high) some cars will be transferred from the AT to another LD route.

I did not vote in the poll since there was no option for this.

 

[Guest]

Summer is a big time for AT as well with kids out of school.

 

[afigg]

Well, this is going to generate a long thread. :lol:

I think he means shuffle the cars around: during the summer (AT lower ridership, other routes high) some cars will be transferred from the AT to another LD route.

The summer is one of the peak periods for the AutoTrain! I have to check a full year of monthly reports, but July and August are among the busiest months of the year for the AT. There is also not that much seasonal variation in the total numbers for the AT. The train may run light in one direction for certain periods as people travel to and from FL, but the AT has to run back the other way to get the equipment to run in the busy direction.

So, let's see. The proposal is to kill or seriously damage the LD train that:

-pulls in the most revenue of all the LD trains at $68.6 million in FY11. (Actually pulled in more revenue than any of the corridor services other than the Acela and NE Regionals).

-without crunching the numbers, pulls in the most revenue per passenger of all the LD trains.

-has the highest cost recovery of the LD trains and comes the closest to breaking even of all the LD trains.

-The LD train that might possibly break even if gas prices stay has high and might get close to selling out on a regular basis in both directions if we enter an era of sustained >$4 to $5 a gallon gas.

Sorry, but this is not the best idea I've seen floated here. The proposal is based on incorrect ideas of AT ridership patterns and revenue that are easily checked in the Amtrak reports on their website.

 

[henryj]

How about ordering some additional Superliners to make up the shortages. Oh, that makes too much sense.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

How about ordering some additional Superliners to make up the shortages. Oh, that makes too much sense.

Maybe amtrak doesn't have the money to order new superliners? what the got they used to order new view liner sleepers.

 

[Steel City Don]

Cancel it......Unless they extend it to more routes......would be nice to see it on the CL..

 

[George Harris]

Don't mess with success.

 

[amamba]

I don't understand why one would cancel the Auto Train. It is profitable. It runs at or near capacity. It seems pretty short sighted to take sleepers off a service that works and put them on a service that loses money.

 

[TML]

NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!

This has to be the most absurd idea I've ever heard next to shutting down Amtrak altogether. This would be like an airline discontinuing its flagship route(s). Barring Divine Intervention, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that this idea will go anywhere far within Amtrak's internal management and/or Congress.

 

[Trogdor]

I know I already posted this response in another thread a couple of days ago, but:

You're kidding, right?

 

[PRR 60]

This is reminiscent of a certain guest who was here last fall.

 

[Ryan]

This is reminiscent of a certain guest who was here last fall.

Not the first time I've thought that.

This is the worst idea ever.

 

[jb64]

This is reminiscent of a certain guest who was here last fall.

Not the first time I've thought that.

This is the worst idea ever.

I have thought that before, too. I think of the same age, as well.

 

[jis]

This is reminiscent of a certain guest who was here last fall.

Not the first time I've thought that.

This is the worst idea ever.

I have thought that before, too. I think of the same age, as well.

Yeah. It is sooooo bad it is bordering on troll.

 

[haolerider]

I think he means shuffle the cars around: during the summer (AT lower ridership, other routes high) some cars will be transferred from the AT to another LD route.

I did not vote in the poll since there was no option for this.

Northbound traffic is an untapped market for Auto Train. Summer family business, National Parks, ec. In my opinion, it is better to enhance a proven trian, than try to move equipment around the country and risk revenue loss. One of the biggest challenges in revenue management is determining what the revenue growth will be by adding one car. Will it sell out or will only a few seats, sleepers sell and in fact decrease your revenue based on added crew expenses. It is a science, but a difficult balance to create.

 

[Texan Eagle]

It looks like the Auto Train is running at full capacity.

There. You answered the question. Axing or reducing capacity of a train that runs full is something only morons would do. It's like telling Apple "Hey you are selling so many iPads and raking millions in profits so let's stop selling iPads and instead think of selling more of something you are not selling".

 

[Blackwolf]

While the topic in this thread is ludicrous, it does point out one clear fact that has to be addressed at some point in the very near future.

Amtrak NEEDS more rolling stock. BADLY. Nearly full trains today will mean standing room only trains in short order, and that tipping point is closer than anyone feels comfortable with. Everyone here understands the financial twilight zone this presents the NRPC, especially considering the political maelstrom this election year comes packed with. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario: They need the money, and yesterday, to get more cars coming down the assembly line, but to ask for those funds from Congress right now would be suicide as it draws an ever bigger bulls eye on the doorstep of 60 Massachusetts Avenue.

In a perfect world, with an order placed today for Superliner III cars, we'd not see them entering service until 2015. If we're finally getting to $4 a gallon gas now, where in the world will fuel prices be in three years?? We're already behind the power curve, and its going to be ugly here really, really soon. The Auto Train is a success story in terms of cost recovery, so there will be no cutting anything from that route.

The history is waiting to be written on the rest of the system. 2021 is not that far away, IMHO. What will the 50th anniversary of Amtrak look like?

 

[the_traveler]

This is reminiscent of a certain guest who was here last fall.

Not the first time I've thought that.

This is the worst idea ever.

I have thought that before, too. I think of the same age, as well.

Yeah. It is sooooo bad it is bordering on troll.

I thought the same thing - in both counts!

Maybe it's his brother 22!

 

[Anderson]

I'll wade in here. I said "increase Auto Train", and I believe that the Auto Train is worth doubling down on in some form if demand continues rising. However, there's a big problem with the Auto Train in terms of directional imbalances on a seasonal basis (i.e. folks going south in the spring and north in the winter). Amtrak should really look at ways to address this particular issue; it might be worth offering some sort of train-bus combo from WAS to ORL/TPA in the "non-seasonal" direction to fill seats, as the Auto Train gets locked to such a low bucket during those times that I've actually seriously considered a one-way rental to take the AT at one of those times.

I'll append the above by noting how I'd handle this:

-It would be seasonally limited to the spring (southbound)/fall (northbound), where traffic imbalance was substantial (i.e. you couldn't "just" address a low load factor by pulling a few cars off the AT).

-On days that the Silvers were operating well below capacity (I'm going to presume at the third bucket or below, but a load factor figure could be inserted as well), I would lock the service's cost to the lower of the two Silvers' buckets (plus a "bus charge" in lieu of a "car charge") so as to avoid losing revenue.

-Once the Silvers hit the highest buckets, I would shift to using the AT's buckets plus the "bus charge", to use this as "load relief" for WAS (and north)-ORL/TPA service. Yes, this seems to be necessary...as I noted, the price disparity between the "reverse flow" Auto Train and the Silvers sometimes gets to the point that one can be priced out on a Silver but see an absurdly affordable Auto Train offering at the same time.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think he means shuffle the cars around: during the summer (AT lower ridership, other routes high) some cars will be transferred from the AT to another LD route.

I did not vote in the poll since there was no option for this.

All, right, I added that option. Now you might want to vote?

NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!

This has to be the most absurd idea I've ever heard next to shutting down Amtrak altogether. This would be like an airline discontinuing its flagship route(s). Barring Divine Intervention, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that this idea will go anywhere far within Amtrak's internal management and/or Congress.

Not a flagship route because it is only acessible to people shipping cars. I don't have a car. Not because I can't afford it!

That's why I said "from a railfan's viewpiont." Just because it is good from a money standpoint dosen't mean YOU have to like it!

Would you rather want longer trains elsewhere or a crowded train that had restricted usage to "no car guys"? IMO AT is not what Amtrak was meant to operate.

I have no access to Amtrak's oversized heavyweight! They could at least open it up to all people!

By the way, TML, no offence, are you German?

 

[MattW]

If the service is running and making money, what difference does it make? That'd be like me arguing for the shutdown of Atlanta's transit system simply because it doesn't serve my community and my needs. And in the world that Amtrak has to live in, earning money does mean it's important.

 

[the_traveler]

Amtrak should really look at ways to address this particular issue; it might be worth offering some sort of train-bus combo from WAS to ORL/TPA in the "non-seasonal" direction to fill seats

So how do you fit the car on the bus?

Remember it is called the AUTO Train - and you can not ride it unless you have your own vehicle!