NE933
Conductor
I've picked up a common theme that the Viewliner II's will be further delayed. Can anyone elaborate?
how much in peril is the Viewliner II order?
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From where?
Acela150
Super Buff
Ditto.
Last I heard they had some minor problems with parts that was fixed. But CAF and Amtrak agreed that Early 2013 was an agreeable delivery date.
N
Nathanael
Guest
"Further" delays? Last information I had from reading Amtrak documents was that the new Viewliners would start entering service sometime between July-September 2013 (which means they'd be delivered quite a lot earlier than that). Do you know something we don't?
The Viewliner order is one of Amtrak's top priorities, since it should immediately reduce their operating losses.
The Viewliner order is one of Amtrak's top priorities, since it should immediately reduce their operating losses.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
They're already being built and the first ones are almost done, so I don't see the problem.
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Acela150
Super Buff
Where did you hear or SEE them? I have not seen one at Penn Coach Yard. That was also why delivery was pushed back. So Amtrak could have "one of each" for speed testing on the NEC IIRC.
But if you find me a Picture or Video that's physical evidence... Of a NEW Viewliner II being delivered within the past Month I will find a way that isn't illegal to compensate you. But there isn't any Viewliner II's out there yet. But it will be very hard to mail compensation to a person that lives on Tatooine.
Not to mention your statement is confusing. It's either they are being delivered and the first one's are done or the first ones are almost done.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
ROFL, I meant "already being built." I messed up big! More ROFL, Tatooine?!
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The original delivery schedule was for first units to be delivered in October of 2012. Reportedly, there were some design and/or manufacturing issues which caused a slight slip in the delivery schedule, now, again, reportedly to take place early in 2013. Of course, the first unit or units will have to undergo testing in Colorado and inspection & extensive testing by Amtrak. I would expect when the first unit is ready to be officially delivered, there will be a formal ceremony at Elmira or at an Amtrak facility (Wilmington?) with Boardman, politicians in attendance to take credit and drum up publicity.
There are photos of the first car frames being constructed, undergoing bench testing. I guess it is what happened to the Viewliner order in the mid-1990s that drives the internet rumors or fears that the 130 unit CAF order will be curtailed or postponed. This time, though, Amtrak does have the funds to pay for the CAF Viewliners. Ticket revenue for FY12 was $2.02 billion, the equipment leases from the Warrington era are getting paid off due to the 2008 PRIIA act, the Acela and the NEC Regionals are generating operating profits to help with the cash flow. So long as Amtrak does not get big cuts in the FY13 and FY14 capital grants from Congress, they can afford to pay for the CAF order. Before someone posts, aha!, 1) the first 6 months of FY13 has been funded at the same levels as FY12, and 2) even the current House appropriations committee voted for a bill that provides Amtrak with a total of $1.8 billion for the FY13 budget (which is on hold because of continuing resolutions rather than passing an actual budget), the cut is in the annual operating subsidy.
The tricky part will be figuring out how to pay for orders for Amfleet II and Superliner I replacements in the next several years. Much depends on the outcome of the November elections.
montana mike
Conductor
"common theme"??
From where. The deliveries start soon. No one is going to pull the plug on an executed contract-the money has already been spent. I could not find any credible postings or news that would support your statement.
From where. The deliveries start soon. No one is going to pull the plug on an executed contract-the money has already been spent. I could not find any credible postings or news that would support your statement.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Seriously?! :giggle: No, I don't know what Tatooine is. I don't know what Darth Vader is. I don't know what Star Wars is!
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The Davy Crockett
Engineer
This relates to Amtrak, how? IMHO this is best discussed elsewhere, at a site that has some (any) relevance to this topic.
Yes. Please keep to trains.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I was going defensive because I had no idea what he was talking about.
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Acela150
Super Buff
Please take your childish ways elsewhere. I by far know absolutely nothing of Star Wars. Thanks to google I found that info.
Back On Topic. Make up your mind. Their either being built or delivered.
On the topic of the VLII order and peril...
If you read the November Amtrak INK (out right now) you will see a brief update on the order. It includes a full-page color picture of a Baggage/Dorm under construction, showing an answer to some of the questions posed before on just how this class of car will be laid out. Looks like there will be either 6 roomettes for the crew, or 5 roomettes and a shower/bathroom, based on the cutouts for 6 double-stack windows on the one side of the car, with the large baggage door beside them also doubling as the access hatch for the roomette modules.
Which brings up a small question. We already know the toilets are being removed from the VLII roomettes for revenue service. Will the crew dorms still have the en-suite toilets or will they use a central toilet design as well? I could see an argument for both, but with the space constraints, keeping the toilets in the room for the crew does seem advantageous. Thoughts?
If you read the November Amtrak INK (out right now) you will see a brief update on the order. It includes a full-page color picture of a Baggage/Dorm under construction, showing an answer to some of the questions posed before on just how this class of car will be laid out. Looks like there will be either 6 roomettes for the crew, or 5 roomettes and a shower/bathroom, based on the cutouts for 6 double-stack windows on the one side of the car, with the large baggage door beside them also doubling as the access hatch for the roomette modules.
Which brings up a small question. We already know the toilets are being removed from the VLII roomettes for revenue service. Will the crew dorms still have the en-suite toilets or will they use a central toilet design as well? I could see an argument for both, but with the space constraints, keeping the toilets in the room for the crew does seem advantageous. Thoughts?
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That issue is HERE.
I would expect the roomettes in the baggage-dorm will be identical to the roomettes in the revenue sleepers. Why have different roomette module and plumbing designs when that drives up the inventory parts cost?
Others here can confirm the number of roomettes in the baggage-dorm design, which I though was 8. Perhaps a roomette module goes in the access panel cutout space, the shower and restroom modules at the far end while the baggage access doors are near the end of the car not seen in the interior shot.
But this photo of the interior of a bag-dorm car should provide some assurance to those worried about the 130 CAF car order that cars are indeed being built. It should be noted that the CAF order cars are still referred to as "single-level long distance" cars, not Viewliners.
Ryan
Court Jester
I agree that standardization will carry the day, and the crew roomettes will be the same as revenue roomettes.
However, an interesting possibility to getting to standardized revenue roomettes would be to swap the current "with toilet" roomette modules for into the bag dorms and move the new "without toilet" roomette modules into the current Viewliner I shells.
Even if the new bag/dorm shells don't have the hook up for sewage at each room, you could slap a blank late over the toilet - it'd be "good enough" for a crew room and a clever way to repurpose the current roomette modules without having to pay to rehab them.
However, an interesting possibility to getting to standardized revenue roomettes would be to swap the current "with toilet" roomette modules for into the bag dorms and move the new "without toilet" roomette modules into the current Viewliner I shells.
Even if the new bag/dorm shells don't have the hook up for sewage at each room, you could slap a blank late over the toilet - it'd be "good enough" for a crew room and a clever way to repurpose the current roomette modules without having to pay to rehab them.
The original plan called for 9 modular roomettes in the car for the crew, all without toilets. One module will contain 2 bathrooms and 1 module will contain a shower for the crew. A little more than half the car was given over to the crew area, the rest of the car goes to 8 modules for luggage. Not sure if one of those modules will be a bike rack.
That said, at least based upon that current photo, it does appear that they may well have modified the original plan and dropped 2 roomettes from the car based upon the window cutouts. Of course that assumes that we're looking at the side of the car where the modular units are slid in and that hole is indeed where the access panel goes to permit the units to be slid in.
A neat idea, but impractical as it would delay getting the badly needed bag/dorms into service, as one would first have to pull the Viewliner I's and pull out the old rooms.
Ryan
Court Jester
I was thinking that you could do that after all of the bag dorms (and enough of the sleepers to take a VL1 sleeper down for a few days) were in service - once you have them all in service and maybe while you still have the best of the heritage bags around (and using the remainders for parts if needed) you can get 'em in there and make the swap.
Well that would mean a lot of expensive double work, as you'd be sliding those new bedrooms into the dorm cars, then sliding them back out and then sliding in the old Viewliner I modules.
That's expensive!
And not really worth the effort IMHO.
IMHO, it might not be worth the effort, but I'd point out that you've got 50-odd Heritage Bags, 20 Heritage diners, and about 20 mothballed Heritage sleepers. That's somewhere between 80 and 100 cars (depending on how many of each are actually around)...yes, I'm a bit crazy, but that certainly strikes me as enough to work out a maintenance pool deal with VIA (which has about 200 of the same cars) and shift over any non-NEC (or overnight NEC) services to/from Canada to that equipment. The bags can go back to their old lives as coaches, etc., and even if only half the cars are useful...well, that's still a pool of around 50-60. Likewise, this might actually make sense for a conversion on 66/67 (even though VA wants to shift those to being "pool sets" with the rest of the NERs).Well that would mean a lot of expensive double work, as you'd be sliding those new bedrooms into the dorm cars, then sliding them back out and then sliding in the old Viewliner I modules.
That's expensive!
And not really worth the effort IMHO.
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