Silver Star Update

[Devil's Advocate]

They keep protect cars in SAS?

Most of the time there's a Coach and a Sleeper in SAS as protect cars for the Sunset and Eagle jis! FTW sometimes has a P-42 and a Coach car sitting in the yard!

I personally think a spare P-42 is a better idea what with the breakdowns on the Single Engine Eagles being so common!!

Two Superliner protect cars have been stationed at SAS for years now. They have their own renovated storage track and service platform with hotel power hookup. This avoids impacting the Texas Eagle nighttime resting track or the daytime private varnish track. So long as only one route is being impacted at a time two cars is usually enough to get job done. I'd put the total availability at around 85%.

 

[NE933]

This has to stop, fast, or else the negative reports will mushroom and Amtrak will not be able to sell itself for a long time.

 

[Bob Dylan]

NARP Chairman: Firsthand Report on Silver Star Sans Diner

Unbelievable that paying customers weren't advised in advance of this service reduction and of course the fact that AGR charges the same amount of points on an Award trip for the Star as for the Meteor is "Alice in Wonderland" material!

 

[George K]

Yes. This is outrageous.

When the ticket was purchased, part of the "agreement" was that meal service would be provided, and the menus were posted online. Without notification, the menus were changed.

As of today, it's still the full service menu, including steak, chicken, etc. All the AmFood we've come to love.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/265/949/Silver-Star-Dining-Car-Menu-0515.pdf

 

[pennyk]

From what I understand, Amtrak attempted to contact everyone who purchased a ticket prior to the time the decision was made to remove the diner from the Silver Star. I was one of those customers. Last year, I purchased a ticket on the Silver Star at a mid to high bucket for travel this October. I purchased the ticket prior to the time Amtrak stopped selling tickets. When the experiment was announced in April, I received an email from Amtrak providing a couple of options. I could keep my reservation on the Star and receive a refund between the difference in the then current lower fare and the fare that I had paid or switch to the Meteor. I chose to keep my Star reservation (and the refund).

It is possible that those passengers who claim they were not notified either ignored their email, changed their email address, did not understand the email, etc.

 

[Anderson]

My understanding is that Amtrak made a good-faith effort to accommodate everyone who was on the Star with a notification and the options above. That being said, I also understand that some people may have managed not to be contacted (didn't see the email, didn't recognize the phone number, etc.).

 

[George K]

Thanks for your input, Penny. However, it's now been since April that Amtrak announced this "experiment". You'd think that in the ensuing 4 months, they would have had time to update their online menus. People will book with the expectation that those menu options are available.

 

[pennyk]

Thanks for your input, Penny. However, it's now been since April that Amtrak announced this "experiment". You'd think that in the ensuing 4 months, they would have had time to update their online menus. People will book with the expectation that those menu options are available.

If a passenger books on-line, there is an alert for both Silver trains with an explanation that the Silver Star will not have a dining car. If a passenger books with an agent, the agents are supposed to be informing the passenger of lack of diner.

 

[Ryan]

Anyone booking online is presented with the following:

Silver Star Trains 91 & 92 Sleeping Car Fare and Food Service Test

Effective July 1, 2015 - January 31, 2016

Amtrak will test a new service aboard the Silver Star from July 1, 2015, through January 31, 2016, that will allow passengers to pay less to upgrade from coach class to our popular sleeping car accommodations. All meal service for sleeping car and coach passengers will be provided in the Café/Lounge car, where passengers can purchase a selection of hot and cold sandwiches, snacks and other items. During the test period, traditional dining car service will not be provided.

Amtrak will examine customer reaction and market demand for this experimental service.

Lower Cost Sleeping Car Accommodations

This test will allow passengers to pay less to upgrade from coach class to our popular sleeping car accommodations. Traditionally, Amtrak has bundled the cost of Dining car meals into the charge for the sleeping car accommodations. Under this experiment, these costs will be “un-bundled” to allow passengers to travel the New York-Orlando-Tampa/Miami route in a sleeping car at a lower cost.

Passengers will continue to have the option of choosing traditional Dining car service aboard the Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98), which operates along much of the Silver Star route. Dining car meals aboard the Silver Meteor are included in the sleeping car upgrade charge.

Sleeping Car Amenities

Passengers with sleeping car accommodations will continue to have complimentary coffee, chilled water and juices, turn-down service for their Bedrooms and Roomettes, private restrooms and access to shower facilities. Upon request, room attendants will provide in-room service for meals purchased from the Café car. At stations with ClubAcela, Amtrak Metropolitan Lounge or similar services, sleeping car passengers will also continue to have same-day lounge access and pre-boarding privileges.

Amtrak is launching this initiative to evaluate the operational cost savings and customer satisfaction of operating an overnight train at a lower fare and without a dining car. Amtrak will continue to explore ways to provide food and beverage service at lower cost.

Reservation and train status information is available on Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps and at 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245). Thank you for choosing Amtrak.

PSN 0415-97

If they have an expectation of a dining car, that's on them.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks Penny, Cliff, Ryan etc. but I still question why an AGR Award on the Star is the same amount of Points as the Meteor? ( of course we know this, but your average Rider doesn't keep track of inside baseball or read canned E-mail or answer Robo- Calls!)

As I've said, I sure wouldn't want to ride the Star from MIA- NYP, and evidently lots of the Senior OBS don't either as they've bid on the Meteor.

Does the Crew get a per diem for not having meals available on the Star?

Why not at least keep the Diner and make the Meals pay as you go as in the old days with the lower fares? Then you would be comparing apples with apples, not apples to avocados!

 

[Ryan]

1) Because it doesn't make sense to make up a special redemption for a 6 month trial.

2) No idea.

3) That doesn't let you park the diners most in need of shop time. I doubt that it's a coincidence that this is timed to end in the timeframe when we'll be hopefully seeing Viewliner Diners coming online.

 

[jebr]

Why not at least keep the Diner and make the Meals pay as you go as in the old days with the lower fares? Then you would be comparing apples with apples, not apples to avocados!

Because, almost by definition, the diner will lose more money on such a proposition. At this point Amtrak doesn't seem to be too concerned about whether the sleepers are making or losing money; it's focusing on whether food and beverage service can break even. The F&B account gets money from the sleeper account whenever someone purchases a meal while riding sleeper, to the amount of whatever they bought. Changing that to a cash proposition will lose the F&B line money, as people probably wouldn't buy as much (if at all) from the diner, and it probably wouldn't be enough to make up the money by reducing staffing or the like.

Amtrak is probably trying to see how strong the backlash is from removing the diner, and if it'd be practical to do so (and allow the cafe to make money.) I'm almost certain it will fail, but Amtrak is looking at this in a very "how can we get the F&B books to break even" fashion instead of a "what could offer a better experience for the customer" fashion.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Valid points guys, you're preaching to the choir but I still say that it's not a valid expierement! What if they took All of the Heritage Diners off the trains for 6 months cause they're worn out?

And does anyone have any info about the OBS working the Star as to their compensation for having no meals available? What's the Unions position on this??

Is the Star running with all Extra board and Newbie OBS between MIA and NYP now???

 

[Ryan]

Perhaps there is no desire for a valid experiment. h34r:

 

[Bob Dylan]

Perhaps there is no desire for a valid experiment. h34r:

Yeah!

 

[Anderson]

Valid points guys, you're preaching to the choir but I still say that it's not a valid expierement! What if they took All of the Heritage Diners off the trains for 6 months cause they're worn out?

And does anyone have any info about the OBS working the Star as to their compensation for having no meals available? What's the Unions position on this??

Is the Star running with all Extra board and Newbie OBS between MIA and NYP now???

I think "temporarily" pulling all of the single-level diners would generate enough blowback from the union to cause problems for Boardman (you'd be talking something like 30 diner crews at that point; functionally sacking perhaps over 100 employees in one go, even if only for a short period (or, oddly, because it's only for a short period and most of them will be back later) is the sort of thing that gives you a strike down the line.

I'm not sure if there's a union position on the food situation per se; however, it might well have gone over as a "not the end of the world" thing since the non-diner crews, IIRC, swap between trains and very few crews eat in the diner all the time.

 

[Paulus]

This has to stop, fast, or else the negative reports will mushroom and Amtrak will not be able to sell itself for a long time.

Amtrak has absolutely no need to sell itself by way of the long distance trains nor will the vast majority of passengers, currently riding on trains with no diner service, be disaffected by this.

 

[Anderson]

This has to stop, fast, or else the negative reports will mushroom and Amtrak will not be able to sell itself for a long time.

Amtrak has absolutely no need to sell itself by way of the long distance trains nor will the vast majority of passengers, currently riding on trains with no diner service, be disaffected by this.

Yes, Amtrak does need to sell itself. Granted that a majority of the support comes from the core areas (Extended NEC, Chicago Hub, and West Coast), but without service and support from outside those areas (e.g. places like Colorado and Florida, where no small pile of Congressional votes come from) the odds of Amtrak being able to get the funding it needs for the NEC drop substantially.

 

[Heading North]

I don't know if this is a sign of substitution to the Meteor, sign of high demand, or just a coincidence, but my experience last Sunday might be telling.

I rode 97 TRE-ALX in coach (typically end up on 19 or 97 about once a month) and the train left NYP late (boarded in TRE around 5 PM). There were no announcements for the diner, so just after departing WIL I wandered over to the dining car, which looked busy, and asked if there might be a seat for one. I was asked if I had a reservation (I said no--boarded in TRE and must have missed the call) and was told the car was booked solid for the evening, so I ended up having a depressing pizza and M&Ms in the lounge (which was virtually empty).

Usually dinner pre-WAS on 19 or 97 is no problem; sometimes the diner has been pretty empty and there are repeat announcements inviting passengers in. This time surprised me. I'm wondering how many coach passengers ended up getting dinner (I was in the 4th of 5 coaches, so the Florida passengers in the front cars wouldn't have passed me in my seat) but certainly hope there was a fair amount of revenue that night from the dining car from passengers other than me.

 

[Triley]

Does the Crew get a per diem for not having meals available on the Star?

They should get the same per diem that any other OBS employee working a train without a diner would get.

 

[Anderson]

I don't know if this is a sign of substitution to the Meteor, sign of high demand, or just a coincidence, but my experience last Sunday might be telling.

I rode 97 TRE-ALX in coach (typically end up on 19 or 97 about once a month) and the train left NYP late (boarded in TRE around 5 PM). There were no announcements for the diner, so just after departing WIL I wandered over to the dining car, which looked busy, and asked if there might be a seat for one. I was asked if I had a reservation (I said no--boarded in TRE and must have missed the call) and was told the car was booked solid for the evening, so I ended up having a depressing pizza and M&Ms in the lounge (which was virtually empty).

Usually dinner pre-WAS on 19 or 97 is no problem; sometimes the diner has been pretty empty and there are repeat announcements inviting passengers in. This time surprised me. I'm wondering how many coach passengers ended up getting dinner (I was in the 4th of 5 coaches, so the Florida passengers in the front cars wouldn't have passed me in my seat) but certainly hope there was a fair amount of revenue that night from the dining car from passengers other than me.

My experience is that the OBS will try to jam everyone boarding from PHL north into eating before WAS so as to allow for space for BAL/WAS pax to eat (WAS can easily fill half a sleeper or more on its own)...

...of course, crap like this is why I just started biting the bullet an buying a roomette. Half of the time the room is cheaper than coach plus dinner would run me, and it avoids having to beg my way into the diner. I'm in your shoes WAS-RVR (on 97 about once a month). [1] One piece of sincere advice: Pick a train of the two (I'd say 97, but that's me), double down on using it even if you've got to pay a bit more for it, and tip well (not excessively well, necessarily, but shoot for 20% or so). The OBS will get used to seeing you around and you might be able to beg your way in at a peak time regardless (or arrange for "carry-out" to the cafe...I at least got this as a concession on a few occasions).

[1] And fuming over 92's lost diner; I'm not going to lie...cutting that diner is probably going to cost Amtrak close to a thousand bucks due to me flipping business to the relevant state trains (e.g. where added ridership doesn't do much for Amtrak) as well as slashed fares on the Star (roomettes there are now competitive with Regional BC).

 

[SteveSFL]

Looking at the revenue guesses that some of you have posted makes me believe that as much as we may want this experiment to fail, Amtrak upper management will probably see it as a success. If they can fill the sleepers at the lower prices and save the costs of running the diners, they will probably let that outweigh the complaints of a few passengers.

I think that history has shown they are more interested in cutting costs through any means than making customers happy.

The one positive is that this type of complete diner removal is probably unlikely to spread to any of the other long distance routes since no other route really has an alternative train with a diner like the Star/Meteor pair.

Of course that doesn't stop them from reducing the full service diners to Chunky Soup for dinner and Corn Flakes for breakfast like on the CONO.

 

[neroden]

At this point Amtrak doesn't seem to be too concerned about whether the sleepers are making or losing money;

It's pretty much impossible for the sleepers to lose money at the prices they charge; I just rechecked my estimates, and revenue would have to drop by at *least* 50%, probably 60% or more, for the sleepers to start to lose money. They could earn a lot less money than they did before, hurting the bottom line substantially, before they started losing money.

I'm almost certain it will fail, but Amtrak is looking at this in a very "how can we get the F&B books to break even" fashion instead of a "what could offer a better experience for the customer" fashion.

Depressingly stupid.

Of course that doesn't stop them from reducing the full service diners to Chunky Soup for dinner and Corn Flakes for breakfast like on the CONO.

If anything, this is even more damaging and stupid, as it retains most of the costs while throwing away most of the revenues.

 

[xyzzy]

I rode 91 out of DC again yesterday. One coach was Raleigh and Southern Pines only. One coach was Florida points other than Jacksonville and Tampa. One coach was points between Hamlet and Jacksonville inclusive (mainly South Carolina stops). One coach was two-thirds Tampa and one-thirds shorts (Richmond, Petersburg, Rocky Mount).

Went to the cafe car about 6 and the line wasn't any longer than it usually was.

 

[neroden]

I rode 91 out of DC again yesterday. One coach was Raleigh and Southern Pines only. One coach was Florida points other than Jacksonville and Tampa. One coach was points between Hamlet and Jacksonville inclusive (mainly South Carolina stops). One coach was two-thirds Tampa and one-thirds shorts (Richmond, Petersburg, Rocky Mount).

Went to the cafe car about 6 and the line wasn't any longer than it usually was.

I have no idea if that's a typical Tampa ridership.

I suspect that the people displaced from the diner will be carrying their own food rather than buying from the cafe; and the crunch on the cafe would be seen more in the morning in Florida.