CZ Stuck between Reno and Sacramento

[Mark Gregory]

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...%2Fbreakingnews

We are scheduled to take our first train trip tomorrow from Reno to Sacramento. I hope things are running by then.

Mark

 

[Cascadia]

Hi Mark, thanks for posting that. I sure hope your trip goes as planned and that you have fun. Getting stuck would be kind of an adventure, if you didn't have to be anywhere.

Here's the whole text of the article from the link you posted:

(citing fair use)

2 passenger trains stuck in Sierra Nevada

NEARLY 400 TRAPPED ([email protected])

February 1, 2008

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Nearly 400 people remained trapped Friday in two Amtrak passenger trains that were stranded in the snowy Sierra Nevada after a large snow plow fell through the tracks, officials said.

Amtrak’s California Zephyr passenger trains were stranded near Donner Pass around 2 p.m. after a large plow being used to clear the tracks fell through a walkway and blocked the trains’ path, according to Amtrak spokeswoman Karina Romero. One train started in Emeryville on its way to Chicago, and the other was on its way back.

“Our trains are just sitting there — we’re not able to get them through,” Romero said, adding that both trains have heating and lights and passengers were being fed. No injuries have been reported.

Romero said Union Pacific tried to clear the snow with lighter vehicles, but had to call in the larger and heavier plows to finish the job. A Union Pacific spokesperson did not have information on the incident Friday evening and could not comment.

Romero said Amtrak was trying to summon buses to nearby towns to evacuate passengers, but have had little luck because many of the vehicles are in Arizona for the Super Bowl.

Officials said Friday evening that they expect it may take another hour or two to clear the tracks and that more snow that has fallen since the accident.

“I think the worst of it is probably over,” Romero said.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Amtrak’s California Zephyr passenger trains were stranded near Donner Pass ... passengers were being fed....

:blink:

 

[Dakguy201]

(citing fair use)
2 passenger trains stuck in Sierra Nevada

NEARLY 400 TRAPPED ([email protected])

February 1, 2008

ASSOCIATED PRESS

... after a large plow being used to clear the tracks fell through a walkway and blocked the trains’ path, according to Amtrak spokeswoman Karina Romero.

I'm somewhat confused regarding what actually happened. Anyone have a clearer description?

 

[PRR 60]

(citing fair use)
2 passenger trains stuck in Sierra Nevada

NEARLY 400 TRAPPED ([email protected])

February 1, 2008

ASSOCIATED PRESS

... after a large plow being used to clear the tracks fell through a walkway and blocked the trains’ path, according to Amtrak spokeswoman Karina Romero.

I'm somewhat confused regarding what actually happened. Anyone have a clearer description?

I have not made heads or tails of what "fell through a walkway" could mean. One reporter got that (maybe that is even what the Amtrak person said), the AP picked it up, and now that is the story world-wide.

For what it's worth, I think one of the UP spreaders (snow plow) derailed on the pass in heavy snow blocking the line in both directions. The two Zephyrs were on either side of the derailment. The UP had to summon a crane to clear the accident. The westbound Zephyr was reversed back to Reno, the passengers were put up for the night in a hotel (no chips provided), and will be sent west today via bus. The eastbound Zephyr has now moved east and is running about 17 hours late.

The poor UP and Amtrak can't win for losing this winter.

 

[PRR 60]

With some further info, it sounds like a bulldozer working the snow fell through a bridge walkway damaging the structure. Trains were halted pending inspection and removal of the dozer.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Just now caught this story on CNN, so here's generally what was reported:

An eastbound CZ got stuck behind a derailed snowplow. The westbound CZ retreated to Reno, where passengers were transferred to hotels. The 155 passengers stranded in the moutains were in no danger.

A replay of the 1952 City of San Francisco episode?

BREAK OUT THE ROTARIES!!

A number are parked at Roseville.

EDIT: CNN has shown the story twice in 15 minutes now.

EDIT 2: Make that 3 times in 25 minutes. 60 passengers on Train 6 took the option of returning by bus to the Bay Area, the remaining 155 choosing to stay aboard. Train 5's passengers will be bustituted over the Sierras. The line has been reopened.

 

[DivMiler]

Amtrak’s California Zephyr passenger trains were stranded near Donner Pass ... passengers were being fed....

:blink:

Cute. :lol:

 

[Guest_reno89502_*]

8 minutes of News Footage from CBS in Sacramento

http://cbs13.com/local/train.stuck.2.644129.html

 

[WICT106]

Perhaps it is time to re-route the Zephyr over the ex-WP rails through the Sierras, between Reno and The Bay Area. I wonder what the track conditions are like?

 

[MrFSS]

8 minutes of News Footage from CBS in Sacramento
http://cbs13.com/local/train.stuck.2.644129.html

Nice 8 min video and it even had footage of the one back in the 50's discussed elsewhere on the forum.

BUT - all of the passengers interviewed had one thing in common to say: NO COMMUNICATION FROM AMTRAK.

Of course we don't know about Amtrak's side of the story, but there were a lot of upset passengers who would have felt better if Amtrak had just told them what was going on.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Amtrak’s California Zephyr passenger trains were stranded near Donner Pass ... passengers were being fed....

:blink:

Cute. :lol:

I almost asked, "To whom?"

 

[WhoozOn1st]

8 minutes of News Footage from CBS in Sacramento
http://cbs13.com/local/train.stuck.2.644129.html

Nice 8 min video and it even had footage of the one back in the 50's discussed elsewhere on the forum.

BUT - all of the passengers interviewed had one thing in common to say: NO COMMUNICATION FROM AMTRAK.

Of course we don't know about Amtrak's side of the story, but there were a lot of upset passengers who would have felt better if Amtrak had just told them what was going on.

Actually, the info that I relayed in EDIT 2 of my above post was provided by an Amtrak spokeswoman being interviewed live - by phone - on CNN. I agree that train personnel are often less than forthcoming about delays, among other things.

Riding Train 14 in May of 2007, there was a conductor who made it a point to inform passengers of the reasons for unscheduled stops. Riding in the Pacific Parlour Car, I was amazed to hear other passengers actually object to being informed of reasons for delays. They didn't wanna know!

At San Luis Obispo - crew change point - I personally thanked the conductor for keeping everybody informed as he walked away from the train. His response: "Hey, it was my pleasure!"

 

[Railroad Bill]

On our recent trip on the SWC, the conductors were excellent in telling us why we were stopped, how our OT performance was. "And there's that BNSF freight we were waiting for" and "now we're ready to go". He was a humorous guy, unlike many conductors, and made the trip a fun one. We said goodbye to him in Trinidad, I think. But communication is generally lacking on Amtrak and they could alleviate lots of upset passengers if they would at least tell them something.

 

[Rex]

BUT - all of the passengers interviewed had one thing in common to say: NO COMMUNICATION FROM AMTRAK.

Of course we don't know about Amtrak's side of the story, but there were a lot of upset passengers who would have felt better if Amtrak had just told them what was going on.

This is, by far, my #1 complaint about Amtrak in my many trips. Total disregard for the passenger in terms of lack of communication. One time while taking the CapLtd from Chicago to DC, we departed the station on time, rolled 300 yards out of the station and came to a stop. We remained there for 4 hours without as much as a word from the conductor. I finally found the conductor reading the paper in the diner and asked him what was up. He shrugged "freight interference". Yeah, thanks buddy.

Maybe its just me, but whenever we are stopped for more than 10 minutes I'd at least like the conductor to tell me whats going on.

It's been covered on this board many times, but I'll say it again. There is such inconsistency among the various Amtrak trains in terms of customer service.

I feel for the passengers on those trains. Stuck for hours without any information is very frustrating.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

There have been lots of times when I, as a passenger, listening on my scanner to the engineer, conductor, other trains, and dispatch, knew exactly what the problem was, while the service attendants had no clue, and the rest of the passengers, of course, were left completely in the dark. A lot of times the attendants would realize I was listening and would ask me what the problem was. So it's not just that attendants don't tell the passengers - a lot of the time, they have no information to give. That's apparently a systemic problem. To what extent it is considered that the passengers either wouldn't understand the information or would just ask more questions that they wouldn't be able to satisfactorily answer, or just that they think they have no obligation to tell the passengers anything, I have no idea. Something certainly needs to change.

 

[AlanB]

Frankly if you ask me, from what I saw and heard in the videos, this sounds more like people wanted difinitive answers and more information that Amtrak could provide. I got the impression that the crews were indeed making announcements, not withstanding that one guys claim that the only announcement was for lunch. The problem was that people wanted announcements that said things like "We'll be moving in 1 hour" or "We'll be busing everyone out of here" or anything other than what the crew could honestly tell them which was "We dont know when things will clear up. We don't own the tracks, and we are relying on information from Union Pacific."

I'm not suggesting that Amtrak doesn't have problem crews who just don't say anything, they do and I've encountered them myself. But in this case, I don't get that feeling. I get the feeling that the passengers just weren't happy with the information that they were getting, so therefore there was no information in their minds.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I'm with AlanB on this. Some people are never happy, and others won't take YES for an answer.

But I still say: BREAK OUT THE ROTARIES!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The problem is that most people, in situations like this, don't want to know what the problem is, per se. They want to know: when will we be moving, what time are we going to get there, and it better be god-damned accurate or you are going to hear from my lawyers.

It is appropriate for a passenger to ask what is going on and be told that a freight train is causing the delay. The average pax wouldn't understand what "The train in the next section went dead on the law, but the dispatcher was asleep for twenty minutes before we could get them to send out a crew". So they'd have top give the information, then explain it. You'd have to do this for 30-40 passengers, and so forth.

And they certainly can't tell them that the train up there will be moved in precisely 13 minutes, 12 seconds, and we'll get 44 minutes, 12 seconds added to our delay, and I know for sure we are arriving in NYP 2 hours, 12 minutes, and 13.62352 seconds behind schedule. Which is all the information a standard passenger wants to know.

 

[the_traveler]

The problem is that most people, in situations like this, don't want to know what the problem is, per se. They want to know: when will we be moving, what time are we going to get there, and it better be god-damned accurate or you are going to hear from my lawyers.
And they certainly can't tell them that the train up there will be moved in precisely 13 minutes, 12 seconds, and we'll get 44 minutes, 12 seconds added to our delay, and I know for sure we are arriving in NYP 2 hours, 12 minutes, and 13.62352 seconds behind schedule. Which is all the information a standard passenger wants to know.

It doesn't have to be that exact. Just tell them what they want to hear - arrival will be 2 hours and 12 minutes late! (After all. that is all they will hear! They may even forgive you if it's only 2 hours and 11 minutes late! )

 

[sechs]

I'm sorry, but they won't forgive you.

There's been a long standing issue here with Caltrain not giving information about delayed trains to folks on the platform. So, they started making announcements about delays. Problem was, the announcements would not end up being right because it would take the police longer to do an investigation, or they couldn't clear a breakdown in the amount of time they thought, or a thousand other things. People made decisions based on an initial announcement and got very pissed off when something different happened.

Announcements of lack of knowledge of what will happen, while truthful, aren't actionable by passengers. They want to know what is going to happen so they can plan. Making an announcement that is close, but not quite right is tantamount to lying.

Unfortunately, Amtrak gets it both ways here, and there's nothing that they can do about it.

 

[Mark Gregory]

I rode from Reno to Sacramento yesterday with several of the folks that had been stuck the night before. Most said that Amtrak had treated them well and they had no complaints. However, there were a few the were irritated about a lack of information.

The trip yesterday only took 9 hours to complete. The train was over three hours late leaving Reno and then another 9 on the train made for a long day. We checked into our hotel at midnight and grabbed some sleep before our return trip this morning. We got back to the station around 9:30 for a 10:10 depature. We'd checked with Julie before we left the hotel and it was running on time. The arrival time came and went and I finally called back and was told that the train was canceled. It was still listed on the board and they made no announcement in the station. The guy that refunded my tickets at the counter let me know that he was doing me a favor by not charging me an extra 10% for the refund on my canceled train.

I haven't followed these forums for very long but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take Amtrak seriously. We're planning a LD trip from Reno to Chicago in the summer. Yesterday's adventure nearly scared me out of it but I've always wanted to make a long trip on a train. I'm very scared at this point but I think we'll go through with it. We have booked a two roomettes so it should be a little more comfortable.

Mark

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You need to take Amtrak both seriously and unseriously.

It is a very serious and useful mode of transportation for those not particularly concerned about timing. I don't care if I am a few hours, or even many hours late. I plan my trips on the assumption that the train is going to be late, and leave a minimum of 6 hours for delay in any long-distance train. If my connection or issue is not going to be something Amtrak can help me with (such as putting me up in a hotel and sending me out on tomorrow's train) its more like 15 hours. The next day, specifically.

Am I suggesting all Amtrak trains frequently run double-digit numbers of hours late? Nope, but it doesn't usually make headlines. Back in the early 90s, it was much worse. Operate on an assumption you are going to be late. If time was of the essence, you wouldn't be taking 55 hours to do what can be done in a drop more than four.

Instead, leave yourself tons of time for delay, go to the Sightseer lounge, order up your favourite drink from the cafe downstairs, find a good seat, and sit watching the scenery go by outside. Comfortable, isolated from the melodrama of airtravel, and the de-humanized hostility of the world outside the train.

 

[wayman]

... sit watching the scenery go by outside. Comfortable, isolated from ... the de-humanized hostility of the world outside the train.

I've heard the delays on the northbound Nation Builder (train 300,000,000,001, Baghdad to Mosul by way of Kirkuk) have been pretty awful recently. But so much more comfortable than going by armored convoy, especially since they upgraded the dining car menu!!!

 

[CapitolLTD]

Amtrak’s California Zephyr passenger trains were stranded near Donner Pass ... passengers were being fed....

:blink:

Cute. :lol:

Reminds me of that airplane movie. What was it, a soccer team? People were being fed haha. On the other hand, this isn't too funny because I am supposed to be on that train in a few days! First it was the other train that had track problems, and I had to change my routing, now this one! My money down the drain! I hope it gets fixed because not only was good money spent here, but I have worked long and hard for this vacation!

Edit: If they shut this down, maybe there would still be hope of routing through on the SW Chief to SJC via a transfer of trains?