Winter Storm 2024 cancellations

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MARC Rider said:
In comparison with the Amtrak cancellations, I wonder about the status of the highways paralleling the Empire Builder route, specifically US 2 and Interstate 90.
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Marias Pass was ugly, but didn't close, on Thursday, when the worst of the wind and snow came through. US-2 has been open all week. So has most of I-90, though there have been times when chains were required at the Montana-Idaho border (I-90 crosses the mountains into Idaho, like the Milwaukee Road did, while US-2 and MT-200 follow the Kootenai and Clark Fork Rivers, like Great Northern and Northern Pacific did.) I-90 also periodically closes for blowing snow near Livingston on the east side of Bozeman Pass.

The Kalispell airport was closed more than it was open the last 3 days but planes are landing again today.

It is a bit disappointing that "the train will get through when planes dont" thing has changed. And, EB derailment notwithstanding, the BNSF high line is one of the better maintained and more heavily used freight routes.
 
MODERATOR NOTE: please keep your comments on the topic of Winter 2024 cancellations. Off topic comments may be removed. Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.
 
I’d add to my previous posts - I’m not saying don’t criticize or judge Amtrak. I’m more just saying be realistic and judge them in the context of what the rail industry in America is in 2024 that they operate in and not the context of what it was decades ago. Because they do have to operate in the realities of 2024. There’s plenty of blame to go around.
 
One thing I would say is they really ought to be doing a better job getting out ahead of the situation from a public and customer relations point of view. Perhaps make a statement and give a daily update on each situation and what the issues are and when service might resume. People are going to blame Amtrak as the operator regardless of what their level of responsibility is vs the host etc.
 
All those tracks out in the open high plains prairie and open country leading to ascent of the Rockies - - -

I was dwelling on the host railroad and its tracks - the continuous welded rail - - -
At what point (cold temperature) does the weld between he continuous sections begin to separate and how much is that separation - enough to say derail a train.

Before the continuous weld rail was introduced I don't think I have read or heard of a derailment of trains on the ole clickety clack short rail section that were bolted together.

Other factors switches and cross-overs (diamonds) having cold weather issues ?
 
WWW said:
All those tracks out in the open high plains prairie and open country leading
to ascent of the Rockies - - -

I was dwelling on the host railroad and its tracks - the continuous welded rail - - -
At what point (cold temperature) does the weld between he continuous sections
begin to separate and how much is that separation - enough to say derail a train.

Before the continuous weld rail was introduced I don't think I have read or heard
of a derailment of trains on the ole clickety clack short rail section that were
bolted together.

Other factors switches and cross-overs (diamonds) having cold weather issues ?
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CWR can be more prone to broken rails in these temperatures particularly if the ballast, ties, etc. are only maintained to a minimum level.
 
lordsigma said:
CWR can be more prone to broken rails in these temperatures particularly if the ballast, ties, etc. are only maintained to a minimum level.
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Wonder if broken rails could be reduced with rail anchors were on every cross tie? The cost of extra anchors and when replacing ties would need costing.

IMO Amtrak was smart with all its cancellations. The high winds have drifted the smaller snow falls into many cuts. Then we have the RRs past cost cutting that resulted in much snow fighting equipment removed from the rosters. Now have all those savings been lost during this blizzard for the extra costs of the many freight delays? What preserved plows can be rented for the many drifts?
 
ashleyryan15 said:
Looks like some of it is to do with equipment failures due to the cold. My money is on the SC-44s/ALCs usual cold weather issues, with a healthy dose of frozen toilets sprinkled in.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/amtrak-midwest-winter-shutdown-continues/
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I suspect its more the Midwest corridor services that are due to equipment. I've read in a few reports from the Midwest states that Amtrak has struggled over the last couple years to keep the midwest owned Chargers available for service with Siemens' supply chain being cited as the biggest problem. I'm sure the impact of the deep freeze has exasperated the situation. Amtrak has a limited amount of locomotives that they can lend to the midwest services. The Long distance and Cascades services may be an equipment component to a degree but are more about the conditions out there. Both the Chief and Zephyr were supposed to resume Saturday - the Chief left but ran into trouble in Kansas and was cancelled again. The Zephyr never left as supposedly BNSF has been trying to clear up a number of frozen freight trains in Nebraska. If the conditions are that bad in Kansas and Nebraska then one can imagine things are a mess on the northern transcon as well and there have been reports of many freight trains similarly parked up there. So the Builder will probably be the last to get going.
 
9 hour Seattle to Portland Trip on Cascades...

Was on the Cascades 503 Sunday morning, the day after a huge blizzard in Portland knocking out power to 150k although conditions weren't great on Sunday. This was the new early morning departure out of Seattle at 5:55am. Train was quite empty, I'd guess 10% capacity. We were due to arrive at 9:17am into Portland. We arrived at 2:57pm... 9 hours later. Most of the delays were between Kelso and Portland... three times where we waited at least an hour each and the longest was between Portland and Vancouver, just over the Willamette River bridge in Linnton/NW Industrial Portland. We left Vancouver WA at around 12:10pm, and arrived Portland at 2:57pm... a distance of like 10 miles and which should take 15 minutes. I recall a few passengers irritated by the delays at that point hopped out in Vancouver and got an Uber to Portland, wish I certainly had, especially as I was making the trip due to a critical family emergency related to the storm. Lots of frozen shut switches and freight train delays was the culprit, though very much connected to each other. All the following trains were delayed behind us and really stacked up. I'm certainly used to Amtrak delays (and expected some delays for that trip) and have typically found Cascades more reliable but this was crazy especially for a shorter regional train. The train could have traveled from Seattle to Portland, back to Seattle then back to Portland in the time my train went from Seattle to Portland. 5 hour 45 min delay on a little over 3 hour trip.

Anyhow I write this on a sold out northbound Cascades 508 now on Monday. We left 1.5 hours late due to delayed connecting buses from Eugene, but so far, knock on wood, train is doing well on this new timeline but means Seattle arrival around 12:30am. There were several canceled trips today, hence the sold out train, plus another ice storm coming in tomorrow so a brief good travel window.
 
The eastbound Lake Shore finally made it to Albany at 10:48 p.m. last night, about eight hours late, and arrived into Boston at 4:34 a.m. (due at 8:32p). Today's arrival is off to a bad start too -- didn't leave Chicago till nearly 2 a.m. and has been running about 4:30 late across Ohio this morning. With all the connections from the west canceled, I'm guessing the late departure from CHI has more to do with getting the equipment ready amidst the deep freeze in the Midwest? Well, at least the LSL isn't canceled too.
 
poncho said:
9 hour Seattle to Portland Trip on Cascades...

Was on the Cascades 503 Sunday morning, the day after a huge blizzard in Portland knocking out power to 150k although conditions weren't great on Sunday. This was the new early morning departure out of Seattle at 5:55am. Train was quite empty, I'd guess 10% capacity. We were due to arrive at 9:17am into Portland. We arrived at 2:57pm... 9 hours later. Most of the delays were between Kelso and Portland... three times where we waited at least an hour each and the longest was between Portland and Vancouver, just over the Willamette River bridge in Linnton/NW Industrial Portland. We left Vancouver WA at around 12:10pm, and arrived Portland at 2:57pm... a distance of like 10 miles and which should take 15 minutes. I recall a few passengers irritated by the delays at that point hopped out in Vancouver and got an Uber to Portland, wish I certainly had, especially as I was making the trip due to a critical family emergency related to the storm. Lots of frozen shut switches and freight train delays was the culprit, though very much connected to each other. All the following trains were delayed behind us and really stacked up. I'm certainly used to Amtrak delays (and expected some delays for that trip) and have typically found Cascades more reliable but this was crazy especially for a shorter regional train. The train could have traveled from Seattle to Portland, back to Seattle then back to Portland in the time my train went from Seattle to Portland. 5 hour 45 min delay on a little over 3 hour trip.

Anyhow I write this on a sold out northbound Cascades 508 now on Monday. We left 1.5 hours late due to delayed connecting buses from Eugene, but so far, knock on wood, train is doing well on this new timeline but means Seattle arrival around 12:30am. There were several canceled trips today, hence the sold out train, plus another ice storm coming in tomorrow so a brief good travel window.
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Here's a graphic of the jam-up around Portland on Saturday night before your trip.
AmJam.jpg

Normally Portland gets an ice storm each winter in January or February. This one was particularly bad. I remember returning to Fort Lewis from Vancouver, WA on Greyhound on January 3, 1969 and experiencing exactly the same storm perimeter as you. The driver struggled from Vancouver to Kelso (the only bus all day scheduled to use the old Pacific Highway LaCenter segment, with its hairpin curves and grades). Then about 40 miles north of Portland it was clear sailing, making up all the lost time. I'm sorry that others had to experience this phenomenon.
 
It is understandable that this route has no switch heaters. With only 1 or 2 days usually a year of frozen switches does not make sense to install permanent heaters. Maybe the RRs especially BNSF need to have several truckloads of the old-fashioned kerosene switch heaters that can be moved to predicted freezing switch locations?
 
west point said:
It is understandable that this route has no switch heaters. With only 1 or 2 days usually a year of frozen switches does not make sense to install permanent heaters. Maybe the RRs especially BNSF need to have several truckloads of the old-fashioned kerosene switch heaters that can be moved to predicted freezing switch locations?
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Right. This Tuesday evening, Tri-Met has the Blue Line running (which connects the yards), but many bus cancellations or buses running 25 mph with chains. Weather forecast is for another storm to hit this evening, which will make clearing switches tough.
 
Willbridge said:
Right. This Tuesday evening, Tri-Met has the Blue Line running (which connects the yards), but many bus cancellations or buses running 25 mph with chains. Weather forecast is for another storm to hit this evening, which will make clearing switches tough.
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Update in Portland area for evening of Jan. 16th.:

Service Alert: The ice storm has moved in, and as weather experts and transportation partners had warned, it is leading to slick and challenging conditions throughout our region. TriMet now has 19 bus lines that are being detoured due to dangerous road conditions in some areas; six others are suspended for the night. With conditions rapidly deteriorating and power outages already being reported, TriMet is discontinuing MAX Blue Line service effective immediately. Shuttle buses continue to run in place of trains. More service changes are possible. Check trimet.org/alerts for updates. Once again, we advise people to stay home and not travel.
 
Barb Stout said:
I believe I saw images yesterday (Tuesday Jan 16) on the news of train people (as in employees; don't know if it was freight or...) lighting fires on the rails to either thaw them out or keep them from freezing. Was that real or did I just dream that up?
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They will use fire to unfreeze switches. Before electric heat switches, they would have fires burning near switches in winter.
 
Barb Stout said:
I believe I saw images yesterday (Tuesday Jan 16) on the news of train people (as in employees; don't know if it was freight or...) lighting fires on the rails to either thaw them out or keep them from freezing. Was that real or did I just dream that up?
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The Metra commuter lines in Chicago use a lot of gas switch heaters with open flames to keep switches clear. The visual of multiple switches at a major crossing (like where the UP West crosses the Milwaukee lines by the latter's Western Ave. station) grabs the attention of TV and online news, who invariably air or post some video of flaming switches, and then those images bounce around social media.

Here's a Trains article from 2019 about news organizations far from Chicago picking up the video of flaming track switches.

If it was railroad workers lighting fires "manually" by pouring kerosene or the like onto switches and lighting it, that was probably somewhere else. :) But it's the same concept for places where subfreezing temperatures aren't common enough to install switch heaters.
 

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