American Airlines / US Airways merger

[Bob Dylan]

It's because we're like the 10,000 Pound Gorilla who does whatever he wants! (But it doesnt work with some Countries, Canada comes to mind right off hand! International Treaties and Diplomacy are like something that Machevelli or Merlin dreamed up in the days of Camelot, part Statecraft, part Magic and part Treachous Deception!! h34r:

 

[railiner]

The US government would probably only "open our skies" to airlines whose home countries would grant similar opportunities to US carrier's.

Thanks to asymmetrical bilateral agreements US carriers often have rights of carriage in other countries that foreign carriers either do not have or cannot make practical use of here. If you look at the history of international travel agreements US carriers have benefited greatly from the disproportionate power of their government to set the terms largely in their favor. Even in cases where the agreements would appear to limit the rights of US carriers they are sometimes overridden or simply ignored.

I was not aware of that.....could you give some examples?

The only case that I am aware of, was back when Germany was divided, I believe Pan Am had the exclusive authority to fly between Berlin and Frankfort where they operated the "Internal German Service", or something to that effect. I believe that even Lufthansa was not allowed to fly that route. Not sure of the entire history of that, perhaps something to do with the Berlin Airlift earlier, when the Soviet's blocked the land routes between Berlin and West Germany.......

As for the US having an advantage in some trade agreement, I say that's nice for a change....we usually get the short end of it with countries like China or Japan.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The US government would probably only "open our skies" to airlines whose home countries would grant similar opportunities to US carrier's.

Thanks to asymmetrical bilateral agreements US carriers often have rights of carriage in other countries that foreign carriers either do not have or cannot make practical use of here. If you look at the history of international travel agreements US carriers have benefited greatly from the disproportionate power of their government to set the terms largely in their favor. Even in cases where the agreements would appear to limit the rights of US carriers they are sometimes overridden or simply ignored.

I was not aware of that.....could you give some examples?

The only case that I am aware of, was back when Germany was divided, I believe Pan Am had the exclusive authority to fly between Berlin and Frankfort where they operated the "Internal German Service", or something to that effect. I believe that even Lufthansa was not allowed to fly that route. Not sure of the entire history of that, perhaps something to do with the Berlin Airlift earlier, when the Soviet's blocked the land routes between Berlin and West Germany.......

As for the US having an advantage in some trade agreement, I say that's nice for a change....we usually get the short end of it with countries like China or Japan.....

Chinese air travel is greatly regulated but growing like an explosion. They could rise to challenge the air traffic numbers in the US. Japan is basically just the two big JAL and ANA battling against each other with virtually no consideration to outside competitors. LCCs in Japan can't even try to match JAL or ANA.

 

[CHamilton]

Justice Reaches Deal To Allow American, US Airways Merger

The Justice Department has reached a deal that will allow for the merger of American and US Airways, opening the door to the creation of the world's largest airline.

The merger still needs final approval from a bankruptcy court.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The last two holdouts from one of the worst years of loyalty program devaluation finally cleared to proceed largely unhindered.

 

[saxman]

Looks like they will drop a few slots in DCA and LGA and promise to keep the smaller hubs in place for 3 years. Merger mania seems to be quite similar to the railroads merging a decade or two ago.

 

[railiner]

After the three year period is over, who knows what will happen to those smaller hubs.....

Looking back at AMR's last three acquisition's. (can't really call them merger's). TWA, Reno Air, Business Express.....there is barely a trace left to show they existed.

The difference this time is that US Air's top management will actually be in charge, so things might be different. Only time will tell.........

 

[jis]

Looks like they will drop a few slots in DCA and LGA and promise to keep the smaller hubs in place for 3 years. Merger mania seems to be quite similar to the railroads merging a decade or two ago.

Effectively 12 slot pairs in LGA, since the other 5 pair are already leased by WN from AA and they get to keep those. Much larger number of slot pairs in DCA.

 

[the_traveler]

The last two holdouts from one of the worst years of loyalty program devaluation finally cleared to proceed largely unhindered.

AGR didn't have any devaluation. HHonors didn't have any devaluation. I don't believe any hotel or car rental programs had any devaluation. I'm not certain, but I don't think Southwest or Jet Blue had any devaluation.
Maybe American Airlines, Untied Airlines or Delta Airlines did (I don't know), but they are not the only airlines in the world. So the way I see it, your blanket statement of "one of the worst years" is not very credible.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think the New AA will try to expand in LAX and might start to disband PHL in favour of JFK. CLT is anybody's guess, they might keep it to compete against Delta's ATL.

I don't think they'll order any more 777-300ER, they will focus on more modern aircraft. And please deal with that ugly livery!

 

[CHamilton]

The two carriers are now free to combine and create the world's largest airline, but they must make room for low-cost competitors at seven airports....

Under the agreement, consumers will find new travel options at Boston Logan International, Chicago O'Hare International, Dallas Love Field, Los Angeles International, Miami International, New York's LaGuardia and Ronald Reagan Washington National.

http://www.npr.org/2013/11/12/244815552/airline-antitrust-deal-seen-boosting-competition-at-airports?ft=1&f=1001

 

[Ispolkom]

The last two holdouts from one of the worst years of loyalty program devaluation finally cleared to proceed largely unhindered.

AGR didn't have any devaluation. HHonors didn't have any devaluation. I don't believe any hotel or car rental programs had any devaluation. I'm not certain, but I don't think Southwest or Jet Blue had any devaluation.
Maybe American Airlines, Untied Airlines or Delta Airlines did (I don't know), but they are not the only airlines in the world. So the way I see it, your blanket statement of "one of the worst years" is not very credible.

True, AGR's last devaluation was April 2012. Hhonors, on the other hand, had a major devaluation in February of this year, on top of one announced in 2012. Marriott did the same the same month. Hyatt just announced one. United has a new partner award schedule costing significantly more miles in effect next year. Delta announced another devaluation effective next year. Heck, even Southwest has announced that it will cost more points to book award travel starting next year.

I know that it's all in the game, don't get me wrong, but 2013 hasn't been a very good year for my points portfolio. That's why I'm an earn and burn kind of guy.

FWIW, Mrs. Ispolkom and I both got US Airways credit cards just in hopes that this merger will got through, since American has a bit more coverage in the MSP market, and American miles are absurdly easy to amass. So we're happy that the merger is more likely to go through. I'm sure that there are further devaluations to come, but that's how the game works, isn't it?

ETA: Starwood also devalued this year, as did Wyndham Rewards and Hertz. And Air Canada.

 

[the_traveler]

The AGR "devaluation" had absolutely no effect on me, and many others.

Before the "devaluation" , the points needed for a Roomette award was:

1 zone = 15,000 points

2 zones = 20,000 points

3 zones = 35,000 points

After the "devaluation", the points needed for a Roomette award are:

1 zone = 15,000 points

2 zones = 20,000 points

3 zones = 35,000 points

I think just the bedrooms, special routes and northeast zone amounts increased.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The way I see it, your blanket statement of "one of the worst years" is not very credible.

Dave, are you're intentionally picking a fight with me? You're challenging something nobody who follows loyalty programs would bother to question at this point. Which I suppose is why you're making such a scene about it.

 

[the_traveler]

I'm not going to argue about this anymore, or say anything else, except this. I probably belong to more loyalty programs (including Amtrak, airlines, hotels and car rental companies) than you do. I have nothing more to say on the subject.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Come on guys, I know I've threadjacked too, but can't we just talk about the New American and stop fighting?

Anyone interested in A321s, 77Ws, and MCE?

 

[CHamilton]

Judge OKs American Airlines-US Airways merger, American’s exit from bankruptcy

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane said Wednesday that AMR and American Airlines are free to exit bankruptcy court and close their merger with US Airways Group.

UPDATE, 9:55 a.m. CST: American Airlines says it will close the deal, close the merger, exit from bankruptcy on Dec. 9, 2013.

 

[railiner]

But when is the 'important' news release coming, (9DEC?), on a new tail paint scheme?

 

[Ryan]

Not soon enough.

 

[Bob Dylan]

But when is the 'important' news release coming, (9DEC?), on a new tail paint scheme?

True this!

 

[xyzzy]

I assume the first step would be reciprocal privileges in the two frequent flyer programs -- earning and redeeming miles on either airline, plus mutual recognition of elite status in the two programs. Second step would be mutual admission to clubs. I fly both airlines and I'm looking forward to this. I'm sure there will be some devaluation of benefits, but I'm an ExecPlat on AA and not too worried about losing anything... more miles and upgrades than I can use as it is.

 

[saxman]

Me thinks the paint scheme will remain the current AA one. That's just my opinion though. I'm guessing US will leave Star Alliance and join One World very soon? Let the fun and headaches begin!

 

[PRR 60]

Me thinks the paint scheme will remain the current AA one. That's just my opinion though. I'm guessing US will leave Star Alliance and join One World very soon? Let the fun and headaches begin!

US has said that they will leave *A and join OW, so that is pretty much a done deal. The only question is when. I'm betting sooner and not later.
As for the livery, I sadly suspect you are correct. I like the present US scheme. The new AA scheme: no comment. The good news: you can't see the outside of the plane from inside the plane.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I assume the first step would be reciprocal privileges in the two frequent flyer programs -- earning and redeeming miles on either airline, plus mutual recognition of elite status in the two programs. Second step would be mutual admission to clubs. I fly both airlines and I'm looking forward to this. I'm sure there will be some devaluation of benefits, but I'm an ExecPlat on AA and not too worried about losing anything... more miles and upgrades than I can use as it is.

I was seriously considering EXP on AA before the merger was approved. My experience with US has been almost laughably bad. Around half of my trips on US and predecessor lines have been hit with some sort of mechanical failure. Yesterday alone I was delayed by two separate flights on US that were plagued by mechanical difficulties including an eventual substitution that reduced the number of seats substantially. Color me unimpressed with US.

 

[PRR 60]

The merger completes today (December 9). For the time being, US and AA will continue to operate as separate carriers. US will leave Star Alliance and join One World on March 31, 2014.