Amtrak Branding Question

[alexandriavatraveler]

New here, apologize if this idea has already been discussed.

Most people I know don't differentiate between the different levels of Amtrak service. In other words Acela/NER, LD, and corridor services to them are all "Amtrak" or "the train".

Why not do what they do in Europe and brand the LDs differently from the corridor services...my understanding is that you already have a bit of this on the west coast. But for instance, even myself, when I see a named train, I don't know if it's a regional/corridor service or a LD service. In Europe, the only named trains I came across were night trains.

I think by branding the LD and regional services differently, then maybe they could put out better products? Private businesses do this all the time, where they have subsidiary brands under the same parent company.

Names could be "Amtrak [hub city/region] services" and then the named trains under the "Amtrak Night Line" brand. Don't have to change the makeup of the trainsets or anything.

I say this because it appears the LDs lose a lot of money, and should probably be addressed separately from the regional services. Perhaps the "Amtrak Night Line" routes would have a different funding/subsidy mechanism from the "Amtrak regional services" routes, which rely more on state money, right?

My understanding is the in Germany, each state pays Deutche Bahn a subsidy to run the level of regional services (i.e. larger than S-bahns but lower than Intercity) within the state.

 

[afigg]

New here, apologize if this idea has already been discussed.

Most people I know don't differentiate between the different levels of Amtrak service. In other words Acela/NER, LD, and corridor services to them are all "Amtrak" or "the train".

Why not do what they do in Europe and brand the LDs differently from the corridor services...my understanding is that you already have a bit of this on the west coast. But for instance, even myself, when I see a named train, I don't know if it's a regional/corridor service or a LD service. In Europe, the only named trains I came across were night trains.

The NEC, state support corridor, and LD trains now are separated internally in Amtrak into different business divisions. Not all LD trains are overnight, the Palmetto is a daytime train with a >750 mile route. Once the new Viewliner sleepers are delivered, the stated plan is to add a sleeper car to the overnight #66 & #67 NE Regionals. So the LD trains also have dya traisn, while a NE Regional will have sleeper rooms to sell.

From the viewpoint of a typical customer, it does not make much difference to them whether it is an LD train or corridor train. Many passengers on the LD trains use them as a corridor train for shorter trips, often for daytime segments of the route. The Silver Star and Meteor get a lot of business from intra-Florida trips. The difference is that the LD train coming from far away is more likely to be late, but the experienced Amtrak passenger learns that quickly for the trips that have a choice between taking an LD train versus a state supported corridor train.

With different business divisions, we may indeed see the LD trains branded separately, but it will do little for the ridership numbers nor the operating losses.

As for the naming convention, if it is a once a day train (or twice a day for several Illinois routes), the train gets a name. Corridor service with multiple daily frequencies get a corridor service name: Acela, NE Regionals, Keystone, Surfliner, and so on. Quite straightforward.

Welcome to Amtrak Unlimited! :hi: Feel free to post, just be aware that almost everything has been discussed at one time or another.

 

[Orie]

I just wish Amtrak would come up with a coherent set of classes of service. You have coach, business class, 2x1 business, Acela business, Acela first, and first (sleeper). It can take a while for someone who doesn't have the patience to figure those out to... figure them out. Not to mention that non Acela business class (if not 2x1 seating) really is just coach with 2 free soda's and a better chance of not having a seat partner.

 

[Anderson]

To the new poster: Welcome to Amtrak Unlimited! I split the thread since your question, while good, was a hair off-topic for where it went; you'll probably get better answers to your question with a separate thread.

Amtrak has fiddled with branding over the years, but part of the issue is that while the overnight trains all have about the same level of service (with one or two odd exceptions), levels of service in the rest of the system are a bit hit-or-miss, making any attempts at comprehensive branding a little tricky. This is, in turn, down to the fact that the states dictate service levels with a combination of what they're willing to pay for and/or have the equipment for (and within some services even the equipment varies substantially)..."Business Class" is something quite different on a Regional versus the Acela versus the Surfliners in CA versus some other state corridors.

 

[FriskyFL]

And "service levels" on a given LD route can vary significantly, depending on the luck of the draw regarding staffing. The only consistency is inconsistency.

 

[BCL]

Capitol Corridor even brands itself with a mascot named "Cappy".

Here's Cappy at El Capitan:

 

[Ryan]

Further splintering just adds to the confusion, IMO.

 

[Anderson]

It would be nice if there were at least a note on BC, in terms of listing the class details, indicating "You get the following seat" on a given route. Obviously things go haywire at times (equipment gets bad-ordered, etc.), but at least indicating that the BC on a Regional isn't the BC on a given corridor train would be good.

 

[the_traveler]

Or more importantly that BC on a Regional is not the same as BC on Acela!

 

[neutralist]

The naming convention on the level of service is indeed confusing. The lowest level of service should always be the "coach" class, no matter it is Acela or LD superliner or amfleet corridor trains. The upper class (non-sleeper) should be the business class.

For the sleepers, you have economy bedroom (roomette), deluxe bedroom ( superliner/viewliner bedroom) and presidential suite (superliner family bedroom).

 

[Alexandria Nick]

I'd go the other way and eliminate even Northeast Regional and Acela. Maybe even drop the names completely on the LDs. When you book a trip, it lists the equipment type, cabin type, and food service like the airlines do. Probably could add a "station frequency" of some sort of indicate it makes frequent stops (NER/Keystones) or limited (Acela).

 

[neroden]

You wanna get old-fashioned with the branding? You can have a "Local", a "Limited", or an "Express".... with "saloon" (coach), "parlour" (business class), "section" (roomette) or "compartment" (bedroom).

Yeah, so the names are a bit old fashioned. Anyway, railroads have always had a complex selection of options, and branding for all of them.

(Because of MARC/SEPTA/NJT/Metro-North/MBTA, the "Northeast Regionals" are basically Limiteds, which makes Acela an Express. But because those railroads confusingly use the 'limited' and 'express' terminology themselves, "Regional" might be a reasonable substitute for "Limited")

Amtrak does need some more standardization in terminology. It should be clear what "business class" means on any given train, and if Amtrak is going to have multiple different levels of business class, they need different names. Consider the exotic number of classes available on Indian Railways, or on Chinese Railways -- it's clear what all of them mean.

 

[ronkstevens]

As much as we point out that there is great variety in the service descriptions, including details like 2x1 business class is better than business class on an Acela, in some ways their current method works.

Amfleet (non LD) train: basic seat coach, one with more perks business. Average time on train relatively short (maybe a few hours max)

Acela: The Acela brand in itself indicates a step up from standard service, so business class and first class work.

LD: coach: basic seating, but accommodating for a longer ride duration. First: sleeper accommodation. Because you're paying for a private room.

A passenger that is taking an Acela isn't likely going to look at a LD train to compare services.

 

[MARC Rider]

As much as we point out that there is great variety in the service descriptions, including details like 2x1 business class is better than business class on an Acela, in some ways their current method works.

Amfleet (non LD) train: basic seat coach, one with more perks business. Average time on train relatively short (maybe a few hours max)

Acela: The Acela brand in itself indicates a step up from standard service, so business class and first class work.

LD: coach: basic seating, but accommodating for a longer ride duration. First: sleeper accommodation. Because you're paying for a private room.

A passenger that is taking an Acela isn't likely going to look at a LD train to compare services.

Amfleet I BC (2X2) has considerably more seat pitch than Amfleet I coach. Also, they have curtains on the windows, which is worth something if the sun bothers you, or you are riding at night and want to get some zzzzs. I will shell out for it on a NEC ride if it appears that the train will be overcrowded, it's definitely an upgrade compared to coach, even without the free drinks.

The confusion is that the Amfleet I business class is not that much different from the Amfleet II long distance coach. The Amfleet II coach has legrests, which I personally find not too useful, but others may have a different opinion. Thus, on a train like the Palmetto (or the Pennsylvanian), where BC is an Amfleet I business class car, but the coaches are Amfleet II LD coaches, the only difference between coach and BC is the free drinks and the fact that BC tends to be lest crowded.

On the other hand, the Vermonter and NER 66/67 have 2X1 BC, but the coaches are Amfleet I corridor coaches. Business class is definitly an upgrade over coach on those trains.

It would seem to me that if the train offers Amfleet II coach, then they should have 2X1 seating in the business class.

 

[ronkstevens]

As much as we point out that there is great variety in the service descriptions, including details like 2x1 business class is better than business class on an Acela, in some ways their current method works.

Amfleet (non LD) train: basic seat coach, one with more perks business. Average time on train relatively short (maybe a few hours max)

Acela: The Acela brand in itself indicates a step up from standard service, so business class and first class work.

LD: coach: basic seating, but accommodating for a longer ride duration. First: sleeper accommodation. Because you're paying for a private room.

A passenger that is taking an Acela isn't likely going to look at a LD train to compare services.

Amfleet I BC (2X2) has considerably more seat pitch than Amfleet I coach. Also, they have curtains on the windows, which is worth something if the sun bothers you, or you are riding at night and want to get some zzzzs. I will shell out for it on a NEC ride if it appears that the train will be overcrowded, it's definitely an upgrade compared to coach, even without the free drinks.

The confusion is that the Amfleet I business class is not that much different from the Amfleet II long distance coach. The Amfleet II coach has legrests, which I personally find not too useful, but others may have a different opinion. Thus, on a train like the Palmetto (or the Pennsylvanian), where BC is an Amfleet I business class car, but the coaches are Amfleet II LD coaches, the only difference between coach and BC is the free drinks and the fact that BC tends to be lest crowded.

On the other hand, the Vermonter and NER 66/67 have 2X1 BC, but the coaches are Amfleet I corridor coaches. Business class is definitly an upgrade over coach on those trains.

It would seem to me that if the train offers Amfleet II coach, then they should have 2X1 seating in the business class.

You highlight the only problem I have with the current system:

Pensylvanian / Palmetto BC riders are essentially paying extra for nothing, unless Amtrak Connect WiFi means that much to them