Amtrak California NPCU Test Runs

[rickycourtney]

Amtrak California has been sending the newly refurbished NPCU #90218 down the San Joaquin Valley for test runs.

I took a few pictures as southbound San Joaquin, train #712 and the "Oakland" stopped in Downtown Fresno on a rainy thursday morning.

There is still an (unused) cab car in the consist immediately behind the NPCU but in a few months it will be leading a set of single-level cars (4/5 refurbished Comet IB's and a Horizon Dinette.) At that time this NPCU will live up to it's "cabbage" nickname with crews loading it with baggage, but for now it's just being used as a control unit.

NPCU #90218 rolls across Tulare Street as it heads into Fresno's Santa Fe Station.

NPCU #90218 waits to depart from Fresno. (Notice the baggage door is well beyond the south end of the platform. I would guess that the NPCU will be placed on the north end of the consist when it's being used as a "cabbage" car.

 

[lo2e]

Wow - did some of those trains used to look like that NPCU? It completely clashes with any of the California cars (SJ/CC or Surfliner) or any other Amtrak stock.

 

[Blackwolf]

Wow - did some of those trains used to look like that NPCU? It completely clashes with any of the California cars (SJ/CC or Surfliner) or any other Amtrak stock.

It is painted in the original CalTrain livery from over 20 years ago. I'm having difficulty finding pictures of actual CalTrain equipment, but here's a model representing the paint scheme.

I would imagine this is something of a "Heritage" unit not unlike what Amtrak did for their 40th. I may be wrong on the reasoning though; either way, it is not a new paint scheme at all. It's straight from 1987.

EDIT: Found one! CalTrain Locomotive #918 "County of San Mateo" on the turntable in 1988.

 

[gn2276]

Using them as a bag car is a big pain, we used the cabcar on the Cascades for baggage and express for a short time. The bottom of the baggage area on the cabcar is almost a foot higher then the regular bag car and it made throwing the bags alot harder.

 

[George Harris]

What is bringing this on? Seems like these people need to get a reminder of the "if ti works don't fix it" concept. So far as I can see, the current concept on the San Joaquin trains works pretty well. It would be nice if the train stopped a little more in front of the station at Fresno, but the current stopping position is a result of having the turnout south of the road crossing.

 

[sechs]

What is bringing this on? Seems like these people need to get a reminder of the "if ti works don't fix it" concept. So far as I can see, the current concept on the San Joaquin trains works pretty well.

Did you read the first post? We're getting single-level cars to expand service. Won't be getting any cab cars with them.

 

[X]

The thing to remember is that these Comets were planned, funded, and purchased well before the DOT awarded Caltrans the money for new Bi-Level cars. Caltrans was desperate to gain more equipment to increase service, and these cars still can't come soon enough.

Interestingly three of the 14 Comets were cab cars, but are being converted into trailers (coaches), with the NPCUs leading instead. The harvest season in the Central Valley, and the inevitable train - truck collisions that it brings about, make the Comet cab cars unsafe to lead San Joaquins.

 

[rickycourtney]

Actually Guest X, 12 of the Comet IB's were cab cars and only 2 were trailer cars. All will be converted to trailer cars with Amtrak trainline equipment.

In addition to their important safety function, the NPCU's will be necessary since the San Joaquin offers checked baggage service and none of the Comet cars will have an on-board baggage room.

 

[Nathanael]

The plan is apparently to move the bilevels currently used on the San Joaquin to the Pacific Surfliner corridor, where they desparately want to get the last single-level set out of service so that all of the trains will have low-floor boarding; on that corridor the boarding delays from the stairs are affecting scheduled runtime, which isn't as much of an issue on the San Joaquin apparently.

I'm not entirely sure what happens to the single-level set currently running on the Pacific Surfliner.

 

[Trogdor]

The plan is apparently to move the bilevels currently used on the San Joaquin to the Pacific Surfliner corridor, where they desparately want to get the last single-level set out of service so that all of the trains will have low-floor boarding; on that corridor the boarding delays from the stairs are affecting scheduled runtime, which isn't as much of an issue on the San Joaquin apparently.

That is not the plan. Despite much lobbying from certain folks within Amtrak, Caltrans was fairly adamant about keeping the San Joaquin cars up north to beef up other SJ or Capitol Corridor consists. Unless they change their mind some time this year, the single-level set will remain on the Surfliner corridor for some time, perhaps until the next brand-new bilevels show up.

 

[Blackwolf]

Similar thread and all...

If the Pacific Surfliners are indeed part of the overall Caltrans fleet, why do they have their own special livery separate from the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin? Sure, the Surfliners are a little isolated... Right now. Enter the planned Coast Daylight and suddenly that isolation disappears. Anyone want to wager that, when the new bi-levels arrive, they'll be painted in the blue/black/orange/silver of the northern Caltrans fleet? And that when the Surfliner fleet goes in for its mid-life rebuild in a few years that they come out with the same livery?

 

[battalion51]

Honestly I prefer the Surfliner scheme, and don't forget the Surfliner scheme is newer than the Capitol scheme. They may phase both sets into the Caltrain throwback, who knows...

 

[Nathanael]

The plan is apparently to move the bilevels currently used on the San Joaquin to the Pacific Surfliner corridor, where they desparately want to get the last single-level set out of service so that all of the trains will have low-floor boarding; on that corridor the boarding delays from the stairs are affecting scheduled runtime, which isn't as much of an issue on the San Joaquin apparently.

That is not the plan. Despite much lobbying from certain folks within Amtrak, Caltrans was fairly adamant about keeping the San Joaquin cars up north to beef up other SJ or Capitol Corridor consists. Unless they change their mind some time this year, the single-level set will remain on the Surfliner corridor for some time, perhaps until the next brand-new bilevels show up.

Um, ridership is down on the Capitol Corridor. The number of trains per day was reduced, too. So, in short, "hmmm?" It doesn't need it.

The "Comet IB" trains should replace most of the San Joaquin sets (I'm assuming they won't be used on the Capitol Corridor). If you want to beef up other San Joaquin consists (uh, is there even going to be another one?) you'd do better to use the single-level set currently used on the Surfliner...

 

[X]

Actually Guest X, 12 of the Comet IB's were cab cars and only 2 were trailer cars. All will be converted to trailer cars with Amtrak trainline equipment.

Oops, you are correct.

 

[Blackwolf]

Um, ridership is down on the Capitol Corridor. The number of trains per day was reduced, too. So, in short, "hmmm?" It doesn't need it.
The "Comet IB" trains should replace most of the San Joaquin sets (I'm assuming they won't be used on the Capitol Corridor). If you want to beef up other San Joaquin consists (uh, is there even going to be another one?) you'd do better to use the single-level set currently used on the Surfliner...

The single level California Comets are for expansion of available seats. As stated in other threads on the topic, this very small single level fleet (three train sets at most; you will likely see only two sets in service at any given time with varying numbers of coach cars (several of the coaches, one of the NPCU's and one of the Horizon cafes will be sitting in Oakland either as a bad-order reserve or while under maintenance pretty much all the time.)

So, two of the current Bi-Level California Car San Joaquin's will be broken up and those cars inserted (most likely) into the other San Joaquin sets to make them longer. Remember, ridership on the San Joaquin route is growing rather steadily. And I call the dip in Capitol Corridor ridership as only a small speed bump. $5 a gallon gas this July will fix that very quickly.

The San Joaquin route will never ever ever ever be completely served by a traditional single level fleet. Only the first and last Oakland-Bakersfield run of the day, and possibly the first and last Sacramento-Bakersfield run will be single level. The rest will be entirely California Bi-Level service.

The orphan Amcan/Horizon consist in SoCal will be history and back on the east coast the instant those new Bi-Levels show up.

 

[X]

Similar thread and all...

If the Pacific Surfliners are indeed part of the overall Caltrans fleet, why do they have their own special livery separate from the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin? Sure, the Surfliners are a little isolated... Right now. Enter the planned Coast Daylight and suddenly that isolation disappears. Anyone want to wager that, when the new bi-levels arrive, they'll be painted in the blue/black/orange/silver of the northern Caltrans fleet? And that when the Surfliner fleet goes in for its mid-life rebuild in a few years that they come out with the same livery?

10 of the Pacific Surfliner Surfliner cars are owned by Caltrans, the other 40 (-1) are owned by Amtrak.

There's an additional 12 Surliners in the CC/SJ pool, but they are NOT identical to the LA ones, they have wheelchair lifts instead of ramps, and external destination signs, among other differences.

 

[Guest]

Capitol Corridors require 8 trainsets a day, with one laying over in SAC on weekends, and San Joaquins account for an additional 7 trainsets.

As Blackwolf stated there will only be 2 Comet trainsets, the only time you might ever see 3 would be on the day before Thanksgiving.

 

[Trogdor]

Um, ridership is down on the Capitol Corridor. The number of trains per day was reduced, too. So, in short, "hmmm?" It doesn't need it.

Haven't tracked ridership, but the number of trains was reduced because they were running an unneeded "deadhead" in the early morning and late evening to get a train from the Oakland facility up to Sacramento and back. When the new Sacramento station configuration went into service last fall, they gained space to accommodate one extra set overnight, which allowed them to get rid of the early morning eastbound that nobody rode, and one westbound evening train.

 

[roadman3313]

Let me try to illustrate the number of train sets... this is based on observation and by no means scientific... feel free to correct as needed.

San Joaquin:

702: From Train 703 Overnight Layover SAC -> BFD Turn to Train 715

712: From Oakland Yard OKJ -> BFD Turn to Train 717

714: From Oakland Yard OKJ -> BFD Turn to Train 703

716: From Oakland Yard OKJ -> BFD to Overnight Layover

704: From Train 701 Midday Layover SAC -> BFD to Overnight Layover

718: From Oakland Yard OKJ -> BFD to Overnight Layover

711: From Train 718 Overnight Layover BFD -> OKJ to Oakland Yard to Maintenance or Train 716

701: From Train 716 Overnight Layover BFD -> SAC to Midday Layover to Train 704

713: From Train 704 Overnight Layover BFD -> OKJ to Oakland Yard to Maintenance or Train 718

715: From Train 702 Turn BFD -> OKJ to Oakland Yard

717: From Train 712 Turn BFD -> OKJ to Oakland Yard

703: From Train 714 Turn BFD -> SAC to Overnight Layover

With that said... all trains sets would operate to Sacramento at some point with the exception of 712/717. A minimum of 6 trainsets would be required to operate the route, however that would not allow for maintenance time, much less time to add/remove cars or change the consist. The 7 trainsets would make sense for the route. There are 6 Coach/Baggage cars, however with the Superliner Rebuilds the flexabilty of car assignment has increased as each San Joaquin has a Coach/Baggage car, while Capitol Corridor do not require one, although they will from time to time when trainsets are changed around.

A typical San Joaquin Consist is: Coach/Baggage, Coach, (Upstairs) Cafe Car, Coach, Coach/Cab Car - 4 cars with coach seating, 3-4 cars with lower level seating depending. Unfortunetly as of recent, a coach has sometimes been removed from the consist leaving Locomotive, Coach/Baggage, Coach, (Upstairs) Cafe Car, Coach/Cab Car. These trains either sell out or are uncomfortably crowded, people seated in the Cafe Car, and overstuffed with baggage during the midday travel period and on Fridays and Sundays.

Nightly Northern California Trainset Locations:

Auburn: 1 CC Trainset Layover

San Jose: 1 CC Trainset Layover

Bakersfield: 3 SJ Trainsets Layover

Oakland Yard: 2 active CC Trainsets Overnight in Yard, 2 active SJ Trainsets Overnight in Yard , spare train sets for CC/SJ (+1 CZ Trainset Turn/Layover and numerous private cars...).

Sacramento: 4 CC Trainsets Layover, 1 San Joaquin Trainset

Total Minimum Active Trainsets Daily: 8 CC, 6 SJ Minimum with another in Yard - Total Minimum Need: 14 Trainsets on Weekdays, 13 on Weekends

A typical Capitol Corridor Consist is: Locomotive, Coach, Coach, (Upstairs) Cafe Car, Coach, Coach/Cab Car

Alternatively another Capitol Corridor Consist used is: Locomotive, Coach, Coach, Coach/(Downstairs) Cafe, Coach/Cab Car

They always try to have 4 cars available with coach seating whether it is a 4 car or 5 car train.

Both routes use 6 car trains on Thanksgiving Week with the following exception:

Day Before Thanksgiving incoming trains 521 and 527 are coupled together to form a 9 car train for train 532 to SAC and train 545 to OKJ. Generally half is sealed off for train 532 as the extra cars are mainly for train 545 with a flood of people and UC Davis students returning back to the Bay Area around the same time. To make up for the cars lost to the longer train (from train 527) trains 542 turning to train 551 use a 5 car Caltrain Train set with limited snack service. All available cars are pressed into service to make the longer trains so the Oakland yard and shops are virtually empty leading up to and the days following Thanksgiving.

It is a lot of information I think I wrote out more so so I can understand what's going on in my head. Cars are stretched thin so any additional equipment would have a use. I know it is similar throughout the rest of the Amtrak system, but just looking at Amtrak in Northern California, the cars are there in a perfect world. But with BO Cars and PM's in addition to unschedule maintenance, trains often run with fewer cars than normally scheduled.

And as a sidenote: I was asked by someone about the Surfliner cars in Northern California. The cars are mix and matched in the existing consists. There was one consist that used to have a Surfliner Coach, Surfliner Coach/Cafe, and Surfliner Coach/Cab car in addition to one California Car Coach, but that set has since had the Surfliner Coach/Cafe replaced by an Amtrak Superliner Coach/Cafe breaking up the set. It is all mix and match with sets generally having 1-2 Surfliner cars at most if they have any at all.

 

[X]

Pretty good roadman, and close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

The thing is that all the Capitol Corridor trainsets DO have a baggage car, except on the CC it's used as a bike car. Surfliner Cab/Baggage cars are preferred, hence why you almost never see them on the San Joaquins, but with the rebuilding of the California Cab cars into Cab/Baggage cars this is changing.

 

[roadman3313]

Ah... I heard about that. I suppose I confused the Coach/Cab cars with the bike rack rebuilds with the baggage ones maybe? I haven't seen many 82xx or Superliner Rebuild cars on Capitol Corridor trains though recently, mainly just 80xx, 83xx, and 88xx mixed in with 64xx, 69xx, and 63xx. I know the racks are flipped up in the coaches for CC operation so the bike racks are available, however I don't recall seeing a Coach/Baggage Car (as there are only 6 originals plus the rebuilds) unless this changed recently?

Then again my eyes may be fuzzy as I have been taking the first Westbound train in the AM... :/

 

[X]

The "Bike rack mod" really should have been named the "Cabbage car mod", as it turns the 83xx Cab/Coach cars in to Cab/Coach/Baggage cars that are equivalent to the 69xx Cab/Coach/Baggage cars. If you're not paying attention it's easy to mistake the lower level of a modified 83xx for a 69xx.

The Superliner baggage cars are generally kept on the San Joaquins as they aren't as bike friendly. The 820x cars tend to be split between the CC and SJ, though with only 5* the odds aren't great of seeing one.

*8204 is still being rebuilt after sustaining severe collision / derailment damage last year.

 

[roadman3313]

Thanks for the clarification. Cab/Coach/Baggage. I actually walked downstairs in one the other day to get off the train and throught I was lost in the baggage area but noticed all the bike racks in there as well. Lots of space for bikes and/or luggage depending on how the racks are situated. Hopefully this will help with bike capacity issues. Actually had a friend who was an intern at the Capitol Corridor (BART - I was too a few years back) who was sent out to Berkeley to specifically count the number of bikes in each car. The short term solution was the double stop policy they use now.

The Modifications should hopefully help out. Since I commute on the CC more now (plus my general interest in Amtrak) I have started to notice the changes and the types of consists used more and more. I'd say I'd learn the car and crew rotations but that would be a bit much... just tend to get different conductors each day on the runs I take.

Was 8204 the one that was struck by a truck near Hanford?

 

[X]

You're welcome.

It's pretty much a win/win for everybody, in exchange for a few seats you gain massively more baggage and / or bike space that's always in the same place on the train. And Amtrak Mechanical no longer has to worry about every consist having the appropriate bag / bike car, as its now there by default. Plus the 82xx / Superliner Bag cars can be used for additional bag / bike space on crowded trains or special cases.

Yes, 8204, and the coach in front of it, 8030, were the cars struck in Hanford, doing nearly a million dollars in damage to each car!

 

[Blackwolf]

Yes, 8204, and the coach in front of it, 8030, were the cars struck in Hanford, doing nearly a million dollars in damage to each car!

Ouch! Nearly $1 million to each? I wonder just how much more damage it would have taken before talk begins of scrapping and replacement with one of the new bi-levels on order. Certainly one of the major disadvantages of cab cars vs. locomotives.