Amtrak "layover' turns into 12-hour delay

[Superliner Diner]

From WOAI-TV, Channel 4 in San Antonio, TX, 8/27/04:

It was a bizarre scene at a San Antonio train station. Stranded travelers were steaming mad about an extended delay. The saga started late Wednesday night and didn't end until Thursday afternoon. Some passengers say they were mistreated and will never travel Amtrak again.

The story is here.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

This (angry pax dissing Amtrak in the media) is what I've been afraid of, especially on Sunset. In terms of potential harm to Amtrak, this issue is pneumonia. The mis-administered discount issue, at most, doesn't even rise to the level of a stubbed toe, "all sound and fury, signifying nothing", and may actually be positive in the balance, by increasing ridership and generating happy pax and positive PR, as opposed to the Sunset issue here...

 

[engine999]

Amtrak needs to hand out a notice to every passanger boarding the sunset and the texas eagle through cars.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak needs to hand out a notice to every passanger boarding the sunset and the texas eagle through cars.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they're not already doing that. I know that when I took my AT trip in July, during the big CSX construction project, they were handing out notices about the possible delays.

However, they don't need to hand out the notices to the entire Texas Eagle, only the thru cars to LA need the notice.

Unfortunately, even with a notice, most people will still blame Amtrak.

Here's what I don't get with this story though, why didn't Amtrak keep power to the thru cars so that the toilets kept working? I've never heard of that one before, or was it just that this passenger wanted things to be more dramtic. I'm sorta leaning towards the later, since there seems to be no complaint about lack of AC.

 

[jccollins]

It's happening on all UP routes, not just the Sunset Limited.

Train 6, the California Zephyr which was supposed to arrive into Chicago around 3:30pm yesterday isn't estimated to arrive until 10:00am today, Estimated arrival: 18 hours and 28 minutes late. In addition, I saw #5 westbound Zephyr pass through Reno around 6 hours late yesterday.

 

[GG-1]

It's happening on all UP routes, not just the Sunset Limited.
Train 6, the California Zephyr which was supposed to arrive into Chicago around 3:30pm yesterday isn't estimated to arrive until 10:00am today, Estimated arrival: 18 hours and 28 minutes late.

Aloha

Does anyone know why the Amtrak Schedule page, still say's this train will be early?

 

[PRR 60]

The 8/25 Emeryviile departure of the eastbound California Zephyr, #6(25), arrived Chicago at 1051a this morning (8/28). 19 hours and 19 minutes late.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

And instead of (or in addition to) handing out notices to pax, they need a real prominent notice in the Sunset schedule, in print and on the web site, and the web site reservation system has got to warn the pax BEFORE allowing them to book a seat, and every reservation agent needs to advise every potential pax, BEFORE they book a seat, so that every single pax is fully informed BEFORE they buy a ticket. Giving them a notice when they board the train won't do it. You might as well give them a slip that says "You are going to be Pi**ed off because we are going to run real late". They've already bought the ticket, made their plans, and booked rooms and rental cars and cruises and whatnot, that depend on being at least within reason of on time to their destinations. They have to know about the likely OTP , chapter and verse, BEFORE you let them buy a ticket. If they buy the ticket first, the notice is too late.

 

[WICT106]

Unfortunately, even with a notice, most people will still blame Amtrak.
Here's what I don't get with this story though, why didn't Amtrak keep power to the thru cars so that the toilets kept working?  I've never heard of that one before, or was it just that this passenger wanted things to be more dramtic.  I'm sorta leaning towards the later, since there seems to be no complaint about lack of AC.

I guess I still don't understand why people would blame Amtrak even when they get notice that (1) their perception is incorrect, and (2) there is very little Amtrak can do about the fundamental situation, i.e. Union Pacific owning the tracks outright, the track being over-capacity, and UPRR handing all of the dispatching? Is it because people are some uninformed about rail operations that they think all tracks are publicly owned (like the highways)?

I'm also curious about the second issue that you raised as well. It may be that the passenger was so disgruntled that he/she wanted it to be more melodramatic.

 

[WICT106]

I guess what I am really asking is why someone would continue to think of a situation based upon inaccurate information when more accurate information has been presented to them?

 

[tp49]

It's because people will be lieve what they want to believe even if new and more accurate information was presented to them.

 

[Guest_slimGP30]

It's because people will be lieve what they want to believe even if new and more accurate information was presented to them.

Better said, "People HEAR what THEY WANT to hear!" And if something isn't what they wanna hear, or it is too disrupting for them, then they want to blame someone else. This is not just with Amtrak, it is with working with the general public as a whole! Nobody, in my opinion, ever seems to "want" to take the initiative and be "responsible" for themselves anymore. This way they can "blame someone else (the company, govt, etc), and get something for nothing! I am sure this whole situation has been extremly blown up to more than what it really was. I do, however, question the situation in regard to the power, though I have a feeling it is exagerated, too. I notice passengers on the train all the time that take the first possible chance to make a mountain out of a molehill with any little thing!

 

[railman]

...every reservation agent needs to advise every potential pax, BEFORE they book a seat, so that every single pax is fully informed BEFORE they buy a ticket.  

Amtrak's human reservations agents have indeed been handed a scripted message (about a month ago) to advise all callers interested in the long-distance trains that the trains operating over CSX and UP are subject to substantial delays due to the host railroads' inability to handle the traffice and keep the schedule.

I haven't "shopped" and agent to see if they actually are doing though....

 

[AKA]

Where there no station facilities for pax use at the time? In San Antonio

 

[Pat]

Delays are not just the problem but that the trains do not carry enough food to accomidate pasengers if delayed and the passengers are rudely told the alteratives and not given a choice. When passengers are not on time for connections Amtrak does not give you an option of a hotel room or vouchers for food on arrival. I was put on a bus with a driver who was overtired and had no dash lights and did not even know how fast he was going without a flashlight. He did not know where he was going and scared us half to death. Maybe if Amtrak made it more accomidating it would not be so upsetting. Amtrak is a service that is not looking out for the passengers comfort. It is not cheap traveling on the train and when you pay a premium price you expect their respect. The equipment is in poor condition and filth is not acceptable when bathrooms back up or do not work at all. So my choice is not to travel with them again and avoid the inconviences they offer. What a shame they could be a real class act

 

[Guest_slimGP30]

Delays are not just the problem but that the trains do not carry enough food to accomidate pasengers if delayed and the passengers are rudely told the alteratives and not given a choice. When passengers are not on time for connections Amtrak does not give you an option of a hotel room or vouchers for food on arrival. I was put on a bus with a driver who was overtired and had no dash lights and did not even know how fast he was going without a flashlight. He did not know where he was going and scared us half to death. Maybe if Amtrak made it more accomidating it would not be so upsetting. Amtrak is a service that is not looking out for the passengers comfort. It is not cheap traveling on the train and when you pay a premium price you expect their respect. The equipment is in poor condition and filth is not acceptable when bathrooms back up or do not work at all. So my choice is not to travel with them again and avoid the inconviences they offer. What a shame they could be a real class act

Let's see what type of customer service you get with an airline especially if something goes wrong! Or better yet, let's see how you grumble when you spend over five hours in a traffic jam and can't get to that next exit for food and gas for a while!

 

[Guest]

If I paid $3,000.00 I would be mad yes but that is usually not the case. And there is no need for rudeness to the passangers when there is a delay.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

There is a basic concept of advertising and marketing that tp49 has reminded us of: that the way people understand a message is primarily based on belief, not facts. This is why repetition –over and over and over– is so important in advertising and in dealing with the public. It’s not that people are the idiots they sometimes resemble; it’s that people are believers first, and listeners second.

For example, I just got off the south-bound Texas Eagle yesterday (4 September), which was being detoured around Marshall and Longview to accommodate some UP track repairs. Even after frequent and numerous repetitions over the intercom and individual, face-to-face notifications that passengers destined for these two stops had to get off in Texarcana, chaos was the rule among those affected by the detour. Handing out notifications would only add to the confusion. It’s up to the crew to deal with the situations in an effective way as they present themselves. Sadly, there is a great deal of variability among Amtrak employees in this kind of ability. I’ve seen some outstanding (some of the best I’ve ever seen in any situation) as well as some abysmal recovery routines surrounding some of the extended delays and disruptions of the Sunset Limited, a train I take often in spite of its reputation. At the end of the day, handling these kinds of messy situations is a teachable skill that Amtrak should teach to all its senior crew members.

About a year ago I was on the west-bound Sunset Limited when it suffered one of its San Antonio fiascos. Both the conductor and the assistant conductor all but fled the scene, but the sleeping car attendant in my sleeping car, who clearly had formal training in crisis management, took over the entire situation as he exercised a calm authority and took care of everyone very quickly. I took down the attendant’s name, and sent a letter to Amtrak management about him, the lame operating crew, and the overall situation.

At some level, the Amtrak system has to support on-scene crisis managers. This system support seems to be failing in recent times.

As a frequent Sunset Limited rider, I’ve established some personal rules. First, don’t plan meetings around the arrival and departure times of the Sunset Limited. Second, when a mess appears (as it frequently does), I look to see if there is qualified leadership in the Amtrak crew to handle the situation. If so, I cooperate. If not, I just make my own way to the nearest airport and get on with my business and my life.

 

[MrFSS]

Let's see what type of customer service you get with an airline especially if something goes wrong!

I just returned from a long trip in Europe. Our connecting flight in Amsterdam was late getting in and we missed the last flight of the day to the US. The airline put us up in a very nice hotel with all the ammenities and gave us unlimited meal service in very nice resturants, along with wine, if we wanted it, no dollar limits. They put us in better seats on the plane out in the morning and it couldn't have been a better experience under the circumstances.

I'll be interested to see how my first long distance Amtrak trip next week compares!

 

[Anthony]

MrFSS, if I may ask, which airline was this?

 

[Guest_slimGP30]

Let's see what type of customer service you get with an airline especially if something goes wrong!

I just returned from a long trip in Europe. Our connecting flight in Amsterdam was late getting in and we missed the last flight of the day to the US. The airline put us up in a very nice hotel with all the ammenities and gave us unlimited meal service in very nice resturants, along with wine, if we wanted it, no dollar limits. They put us in better seats on the plane out in the morning and it couldn't have been a better experience under the circumstances.

I'll be interested to see how my first long distance Amtrak trip next week compares!

Wow!!! You were lucky!!! Please tell us which airline this was so I can give them my business when I need to fly (where the train isn't practical of course)!

 

[Guest]

Sounds like the way it should be. Nice to think somebody cared. Guess Amtrak should be more accomidating but they are delayed so frequently that they can't afford to care about it's customers. And after all as the saying goes--I showed up for work didn't I ???

 

[MrFSS]

Wow!!! You were lucky!!! Please tell us which airline this was so I can give them my business when I need to fly (where the train isn't practical of course)!

It was KLM - but who knows how long that great service will last - they were just bought by Air France!

 

[Anthony]

Ahh, KLM - the airline that gives little porcelain houses to passengers

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

I’ve seen just as much variability in accommodating stranded passengers among the airlines as I have with Amtrak. For every time I’ve had to find my own way to the nearest airport off a stuck Sunset Limited train rather than put up with rude and incompetent Amtrak employees, I’ve been whisked to the airport by competent and well trained employees. Similarly, on a recent trip to Bombay, my Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt was too late to meet the Lufthansa flight to India. I was wined and dined in a very nice hotel and sent on my way (first class) the following day to India. This is in sharp contrast to the way I was treated by SAS on a recent trip to Stockholm. The SAS flight to Copenhagen arrived too late to make the connection to Sweden. Since all flights to Stockholm were over-sold for the rest of the day, I was invited to sleep on the floor in the terminal until late the next morning when I could standby for a flight. It is interesting to note that I was flying coach in the Lufthansa case, and I was flying first class in the SAS case.

Life is too short. I took the train to Stockholm the same afternoon. I was never successful in being reimbursed by SAS for my rail fare, as it was done on “my own initiative and without authorization.” I hate being treated like a child.

I don’t recall ever being accommodated in a civilized way by a U.S. airline in recent years. I am old enough to remember when travel, by whatever means in the U.S., was a generally pleasant experience. Sadly, civility and ease in travel seems to be confined to certain countries outside the U.S., and then it’s the luck of the draw.