Amtrak Stations with Fewest # of Passengers

[fairviewroad]

More trivia, this time looking at the high-ridership end of the list.

• The busiest stations served by only one train per day... Sanford and Lorton Auto Train terminals, of course.
• New Orleans has two to three departures per day. Except for Auto Train, all stations with more ridership than New Orleans have at least four departures per day, in one direction or another. (New Orleans numbers are probably inflated by connecting traffic, though)
• Kansas City has four departures per day. Except for New Orleans and the Auto Train, all stations with more ridership than Kansas City have more than four departures per day. (KC numbers are probably inflated by connecting traffic, through.)
• Orlando has four departures per day (two north, two south). Its numbers *aren't* inflated by connecting traffic. Except for the aforementioned stations, all stations with more ridership than Orlando have more than four departures per day. Orlando clearly provides more traffic than its service level would predict.
• Vancouver, Canada has a mere two departures per day, and except for the Auto Train stations, all stations with more ridership than Vancouver have more departures per day than that. (But Vancouver does have a bunch of bus service too, which probably improves ridership.)
• Tampa has two departures a day -- one north and one south. It is the best-performing station with mere "one each way" service, particularly impressive given the routing of the train and the poor on-time performance. (Though there are also connecting buses.)
• After Tampa, the next-highest-ridership "one each way" stations are, in descending order:
• Minneapolis-St. Paul.
• Denver
• Atlanta
• Montreal
• Reno
• Albuquerque
• Memphis
• Whitefish, Montana (at which point I stopped, as there are lots of "one each way" stations from here on down the chart)

I think that these one-each-way stations which are "punching above their weight", getting ridership usually associated with stations with more frequencies, seem like they could use more service. (Apart from Auto Train, where it makes more sense to run a longer train.) I am aware that there is a plan in progress for Montreal, that the Minnesota government is interested in getting another frequency for MSP, that there are rumors of returning the Palmetto to Tampa at some time in the future, and that there were vague proposals to extend the Capitol Corridor to Reno, and that there were even vaguer and less likely proposals to extend something from Charlotte to Atlanta, but I am aware of no proposals whatsoever for Denver. Which I find odd.

Interesting list. Montreal isn't a one-each-way station, though. It's one, period. So it has half the departures as the others in its group.

As far as Thruway buses, I was under the impression that these were not included in ridership figures...at least not on the state fact sheets.

That said, you're probably right that bus service in Vancouver improves train ridership, as it allows more options for round-trips since you

can have a train/bus combo. But I thought the bus portion would not be included in the station numbers. (At any rate, there are plenty of

locations served only by Thruway buses that are not included at all on the state fact sheets)

 

[The Journalist]

This gets me wondering: What's the highest-ridership unstaffed station, and the lowest-ridership staffed station?

The "flag stop" nomenclature seems to be an artifact now-considering etickets can be made for them, is it really a "flag" stop anymore in any meaningful sense?

 

[Nathanael]

This gets me wondering: What's the highest-ridership unstaffed station, and the lowest-ridership staffed station?

The "flag stop" nomenclature seems to be an artifact now-considering etickets can be made for them, is it really a "flag" stop anymore in any meaningful sense?

At a "flag stop", if there are no ticketed passengers the train is allowed to blow through the station without stopping. This is only useful for stations where, on some days, there are no ticketed passengers. On such days this can save a few minutes on the schedule.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

This gets me wondering: What's the highest-ridership unstaffed station, and the lowest-ridership staffed station?

The "flag stop" nomenclature seems to be an artifact now-considering etickets can be made for them, is it really a "flag" stop anymore in any meaningful sense?

Well ALC (with one daily train and hideous calling hours) comes in with 4,538 bringing in just over $300K in revenue. So there's you're starting mark...

While it is becoming less and less common with ridership increases there are times when there are no boardings or deboardings at ALC, but it isn't a flag stop so they do stop the train. I never figured out why, but now with eTicketing there could be a last minute purchase so hypothetically there could be somebody there to pick it up even if the conductor's manifest doesn't say there is...

 

[jis]

And yet sometimes they forget to pick people up at regular stops like was discussed in a lengthy thread about an incident at West Glacier MT.

 

[George Harris]

Newbern TN is low ridership because it is a fairly small town. It is a stop mainly because the town did what it took to get a stop while nearby Dyersburg which is larger did not. Dyersburg was a stop for all trains back in ICRR days, and that is including the all Pullman Panama Limited and 16 1/2 Chicago to New Orleans City of New Orleans. Back in ICRR days Newburg was not a major stop. Do not have a schedule at hand, but I think there was only one train, each way, the bottom end mail train that stopped there.

Slidell LA's passenger count is probably inflated because it would be an easier place for Baton Rouge originating/terminating passenger to catch the train than New Orleans..

 

[Nathanael]

Slidell LA's passenger count is probably inflated because it would be an easier place for Baton Rouge originating/terminating passenger to catch the train than New Orleans..

It would be interesting to look at this historically; perhaps there's a small boom in train demand from the Baton Rouge area.
2013: Slidell 7596

2012: Slidell 7101

2011: Slidell 7316

So, actually, floating around the same numbers each year. This must be a flagstop for purely historical reasons and it probably shouldn't be.

 

[Anderson]

Slidell may well be a flagstop as a holdover from Southern's control of the line through '79. Per one of the 1978 timetables, it was an "F" then:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19780730&item=0031

A question on flag stops: If a train is running early, can it blow through the flag stop assuming no O/D? I ask because, for obvious reasons, removing as many "fixed points" from a train's schedule as possible would seem to tend to help with both timekeeping (over a given stretch of track, since you could "make up a delay in advance") and scheduling (since if a train could go through faster but for a series of fixed stops, you'd expect to be able to drop some time from the schedule). I'm thinking some of the times I've been on the Meteor headed into Richmond and found that we were 10-15 minutes early (something that is not at all uncommon as far as I can tell).

Edit: Just a thought on Burke Center, but it was only added a year or two ago, and only serves the Lynchburger. Mind you, being a stop for a while didn't help Franconia-Springfield...but not being on the subway can't hurt there.

Also, I almost did a points run from DC to Rockville last week (out on the Cap, back on the subway). That stop is probably a holdover from the old west-from-DC trains back in the 70s:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19780730&item=0036

(The thought of an Amtrak stop at Silver Spring on top of Rockville seems strange now, but remember...there wasn't much of a Metro in '78).

Edit: Just for reference, Lee Hall was apparently still a flag stop on the Colonial in 1978. You have no idea how odd that feels.

 

[Bus Nut]

The Adirondack and Vermonter might not 'do' flag stops because the state governments that help support them and Amtrak have chosen to manage time in the schedule a different way. If there's no significant stop (other than Albany, maybe?) that is used as makeup/slack point, then planning to stop at all the stops keeps the schedule consistent while also providing some slack that can be pulled taut (and reaping some political benefits, I mean who wants to be turned into a "whistle stop"?), all the while avoiding doing lengthy, customer-enraging time-keeping stops like you had on Baltimore's MTA Light Rail when it opened.

I suspect Slidell, LA is a flag stop in part because Amtrak doesn't want to guarantee a departure time. The arr/dep of the WB Crescent is probably timed to be late daily--like, really late--so if the train is early (the bus driver in me wants to say 'hot', but I know that's not the right term), they won't be sitting at Slidell waiting for a DEP time.

 

[Anderson]

The Adirondack and Vermonter might not 'do' flag stops because the state governments that help support them and Amtrak have chosen to manage time in the schedule a different way. If there's no significant stop (other than Albany, maybe?) that is used as makeup/slack point, then planning to stop at all the stops keeps the schedule consistent while also providing some slack that can be pulled taut (and reaping some political benefits, I mean who wants to be turned into a "whistle stop"?), all the while avoiding doing lengthy, customer-enraging time-keeping stops like you had on Baltimore's MTA Light Rail when it opened.

I suspect Slidell, LA is a flag stop in part because Amtrak doesn't want to guarantee a departure time. The arr/dep of the WB Crescent is probably timed to be late daily--like, really late--so if the train is early (the bus driver in me wants to say 'hot', but I know that's not the right term), they won't be sitting at Slidell waiting for a DEP time.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Timekeeping into Albany has, at times, had an amazing amount of slack built in. As in...I think between Saratoga Springs and Albany, I found close to an hour of pad vis-a-vis the NB train.

As to the Adirondack and "significant" stops, between Albany and Montreal the only ones of note are Schenectady (did I spell that right?) and Saratoga Springs. From what I can tell, the former is actually a "problem stop" for both the Adirondack and the Maple Leaf insofar as the trains frequently get sold out ALB-SDY (there being far more trains NYP-ALB, and those trains providing the only morning-out/evening-back service from NYP). I hesitate to say it, but that city pair might actually be worth either partially "blocking" or allowing more than normal "overselling" and risking a few "cafe riders" for the one stop. Other than that, you could probably drop every stop between Albany and Montreal and not blink. The only other one of possible note would be Plattsburgh (the keeping of which would allow non-passport-bearing tourists somewhere they could get off when going for the scenery).

 

[jis]

CBP would be upset if you did not stop at Rouses Point!

The SDY -ALB padding is to account for the busy single track. This padding should get reduced once the double tracking is done.

 

[the_traveler]

The SDY -ALB padding is to account for the busy single track. This padding should get reduced once the double tracking is done.

I lived and worked in the Albany area for 34 years, so I saw those tracks every day. They have been double tracked for as long as I remember. Then I read here that it was reduced to single track. I couldn't believe it, but saw it for myself! And now they want to put in a second track? Unbelievable!

 

[Guest]

As to the Adirondack and "significant" stops, between Albany and Montreal the only ones of note are Schenectady (did I spell that right?)

Yes. Trivia: Whenever anyone asked him where he got his ideas, Harlan Ellison would say "Schenectady"...

and Saratoga Springs. From what I can tell, the former is actually a "problem stop" for both the Adirondack and the Maple Leaf insofar as the trains frequently get sold out ALB-SDY (there being far more trains NYP-ALB, and those trains providing the only morning-out/evening-back service from NYP). I hesitate to say it, but that city pair might actually be worth either partially "blocking" or allowing more than normal "overselling" and risking a few "cafe riders" for the one stop.

Once the route is re-double-tracked, including new Schenectady station, it might become possible to extend a pair of the Albany-terminators on the Empire Service to Schenectady, though I'm sure there would be some subtle scheduling problems with that. The route is completely under Amtrak control now, so it's a lot easier to extend service than it is with a route under freight-hauler control.

Other than that, you could probably drop every stop between Albany and Montreal and not blink. The only other one of possible note would be Plattsburgh (the keeping of which would allow non-passport-bearing tourists somewhere they could get off when going for the scenery).

The communities in the North Country like having service and it's worth keeping service for political reasons, but given the low, low ridership, marking these as flagstops would make a great deal of sense.
As for the two border crossing stops, those are supposed to go away when the preclearance platform in Montreal is built. That seems to be tangled up in complex international negotiations right now, but the Quebec, NY, and Vermont governments and Amtrak have all said that they really want to get it done.

 

[afigg]

As to the Adirondack and "significant" stops, between Albany and Montreal the only ones of note are Schenectady (did I spell that right?) and Saratoga Springs. From what I can tell, the former is actually a "problem stop" for both the Adirondack and the Maple Leaf insofar as the trains frequently get sold out ALB-SDY (there being far more trains NYP-ALB, and those trains providing the only morning-out/evening-back service from NYP). I hesitate to say it, but that city pair might actually be worth either partially "blocking" or allowing more than normal "overselling" and risking a few "cafe riders" for the one stop. Other than that, you could probably drop every stop between Albany and Montreal and not blink. The only other one of possible note would be Plattsburgh (the keeping of which would allow non-passport-bearing tourists somewhere they could get off when going for the scenery).

Depending on what your ridership threshold is to be a station of note, Fort Edward had 9,435 passengers in FY13 and Westport 5,072. That more than 10 a day on average, so odds are that more than 1-2 people are getting on or off on any given day. Except perhaps in the dead of winter. Faster trip times to NYP could lead to a ridership bump for the further north upper state stations, as the train becomes more competitive for locals in travel time to buses. Although with the population density, the passenger numbers for the NY stops north of Saratoga Springs are never going to be big.

 

[the_traveler]

I grew up in upstate NYS, and FED (yes, that's the code for Ft Edward) was my "home station". North of SAR (and to an extent FED) all the way to PLG, it travels far from the Northway (I-87). And I personally would not want to be on a train going 65+ MPH around the many curves on a ledge above Lake Champlain - just to be time competitive with the Northway!

I think one of the main problems with this train are the connection times in both NYP and MTR - either too early departure in the morning or too late arrival for most connections. (Only the NEC between NYP & WAS is "convenient".) The only LD connection possible the same day is from the southbound Adirondack to the westbound LSL at SDY. (The opposite direction requires an overnight stay.)

More trivia about Schenectady: The first radio station in the US was in Schenectady and called WGY. (It is still in operation.) The reason for those call letters:

W because stations east of the Mississippi start with W

G for General Electric - founder of the station and based in SDY

Y for the last letter of Schenectady!

 

[Nathanael]

Regarding connections at Montreal for the Adirondack, I haven't looked into them. VIA's services are simply dreadfully thin so I would be unsurprised if none of the VIA connections worked. But how about the AMT commuter rail connections? It looks like at least the two lines which go to Gare Centrale work.

In other news, which I uncovered while checking this, it looks like Hunter Harrison is busily causing CP to break contracts in Canada:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/blames+delays+commuter+train+lines/9216000/story.html

Unlike Amtrak, AMT doesn't mince words.

E. Hunter Harrison is an unrepentant criminal and needs to be in prison. It might take a while to work up the exactly correct legal theory to prosecute him, but ordering his subordinates at both CP and CN to violate contracts, and in the case of CN in the US to break the law, has to violate some rule of responsibility for the persons entrusted with a corporate charter. Under British legal theory the first responsibility of the board of directors of a corporation is to obey the law, *not* to make a profit. He's not on the board, but conspiracy with the board members might be a case...

 

[trainman74]

The first radio station in the US was in Schenectady and called WGY. (It is still in operation.) The reason for those call letters:

W because stations east of the Mississippi start with W

G for General Electric - founder of the station and based in SDY

Y for the last letter of Schenectady!

I know this is way off-topic, but...there are several different radio stations in the U.S. that can make a "first" claim for various reasons. WGY is probably first if you count its time as an experimental station (beginning way back in 1912), but it didn't become a full-fledged commercially-licensed station under the WGY call letters until 1922, after there were already a number of commercially-licensed stations on the air (the first one of those, KDKA in Pittsburgh, got its commercial license in November 1920).

Also, the WGY call letters were assigned sequentially, so any interpretation of them should be considered a "backronym." I believe it didn't become possible for radio stations to request specific call letters until later in the 1920s.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak has posted the FY2013 State Fact Sheets with the station passenger counts, train services, money spent, project status info, and route maps for each state. The FY2012 fact sheet are still on the site, but the FY2011 fact sheets links have been removed.

So the station numbers can now be looked at one state at a time.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: Thanks for Posting! Time for our Number Crunchers Anderson, Ryan and henryj to Go to Work! ^_^

**I was Surprised to see that Ridership was Down 4.4% seeing as How the Texas Eagles and the Sunset Ltd. seem to have Heavy Pasenger Loads and have High Bucket Fares and Accomodation Charges Most Days! Also that Texas has over 80,000 AGR Members! And putting in How Much Amtrak Spends on Goods and Services in Each State is Good Ammo to use with Politicians that like to talk about Jobs and Economic Impact!

 

[gmushial]

Have to wonder about the RDD numbers - 13k/yr means approx. 20 per night per train (one northbound CS, one southbound)... and the early mornings that I've either gotten on or off, I've been the only person doing such... wonder if those numbers don't include the bus connections??

 

[Nathanael]

Amtrak has posted the FY2013 State Fact Sheets with the station passenger counts, train services, money spent, project status info,

A nice thing about this year's fact sheets -- they list all the track and station projects under construction or funded in each state! This is new, they didn't in previous years.

 

[afigg]

A nice thing about this year's fact sheets -- they list all the track and station projects under construction or funded in each state! This is new, they didn't in previous years.

Status info about track and station projects were in the FY11 and FY12 state fact sheets and in somewhat less detail in the FY10 sheets. It is not new. The route maps with stations & track ownership were added with the FY11 sheets.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Sanderson TX- 231... can't find anything lower yet.