AMTRAK vs. Airlines

[Bob Dylan]

Picked up my brother yesterday @ ABI/hed flown from SAC to AUS,stop in Vegas,due to weather the flight took 8 hrs./he was

singled out by the TSA("thousands stand around" :lol: )for special screening in SAC,upon arrival in Austin his bag was "delayed"

(ie LOST! )and I couldnt stop in front of the terminal to pick him up(just isnt done in Austin!)had to keep circling during a T-Storm

(the only good news here!(along with hundreds of others) or else pay NY prices for parking in our garage!Its a remeinder of just how

good most of us have it @ our stations and getting on /off trains even though we like to ***** and complain,sort of like the service eh!

Me, Ill take Amtrak anyday and Ive flown probably as much if not more than anyone on this forum with the possible exception of Airline

Pilots or Diplomatic Couriers!(and once upon a time I did that job!)Amtrak yes!Airports and TSA,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[john h]

Actually in Austin you can park for under 30 mins for Free

https://www.ci.austin.tx.us/austinairport/parking.htm

And I know there working on a proposal for a cellphone lot

But your right train travel is the way to go (except last time I took the Texas eagle it was 4 hrs late to San Antonio)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Actually in Austin you can park for under 30 mins for Freehttps://www.ci.austin.tx.us/austinairport/parking.htm

And I know there working on a proposal for a cellphone lot

But your right train travel is the way to go (except last time I took the Texas eagle it was 4 hrs late to San Antonio)

Yeah<I live here, that was hyperbole and sarcasm but still for such a mid-level airport the TSA and cops sort of

over do it by perhaps 50%!Its as easy to go through LAX or JFK as here and thats saying something!The OTP for

the TE and most trains is lots better,lots of reasons,but sometimes stuff happens as the old saying goes and better its on a train than

any other menas of transport(ever sat on the 5 or the Katy Freeway or I35 for hours in traffic? :lol: )

 

[cbender]

I've stayed out of the amtrak / airline cost debate in the other thread, but am going to chime in here and (slightly) defend the airlines. I read lots of horror stories about airline travel, but can't really understand where all the hate and problems are coming from.

It sounds like I don't fly as much as the OP, but I have flown just over 50K so far this year, and several hundred thousand miles over the past few years, mostly on UA and AA. I can't say that all of the in-flight service has been perfect, but in the past year I haven't had any problems or delays significant enough that I specifically recall them (except for Christmas in Chicago, which is always a zoo). I also can't recall having problems with the TSA. Sure, it is annoying to take my shoes off, and yes the vast majority of what the TSA does is not useful for increasing airplane security, but is that really such a big deal? I mostly fly out of DCA (a thoroughly great airport) and IAD (a terrible hole), and in the last year have also passed through TSA at MCO, AUS, DEN, ITO, KOA, LIH, ORD, OMA, TUS, LAX, FCA, and probably others I can't recall. I don't recall having a secondary screening during that time. I rarely check luggage, but have on occasion without incident.

I still ride Amtrak occasionally (this coming weekend, for example). Up until a couple of years ago I rode in the NE Corridor several times/month, and I do recall several extended delays at NYP, with many many people sprawled out everywhere. My sister was significantly delayed last winter on the CZ due to weather.

Train travel can be fun, but outside of the NE corridor the current schedules are inconvenient, and frequency is almost non-existent. Air travel can be irritating (if I had been on that recent ExpressJet flight, I'm sure I would be hopping mad), but generally I find it as uneventful as train travel, and usually more on-time.

 

[the_traveler]

The new rules that TSA is imposing (listing sex and date of birth) on boarding passes don't make much sense. OK, "Chris" could be male or female but I doubt there are many males named "Sue" or many females named "Antonio"! And it can be easily determined by most people just by looking that the "terrorist" who's name is on the no-fly list is not the 1 year old baby or the 98 year old great-great-great-great grandmother that shows up with her grandchildren.

A few weeks ago was my first flight in over 4 years. Give me Amtrak any time - where I can wait in my car until the train pulls in anyday! (Try that at JFK or ORD! )

 

[cbender]

The new rules that TSA is imposing (listing sex and date of birth) on boarding passes don't make much sense. OK, "Chris" could be male or female but I doubt there are many males named "Sue" or many females named "Antonio"! And it can be easily determined by most people just by looking that the "terrorist" who's name is on the no-fly list is not the 1 year old baby or the 98 year old great-great-great-great grandmother that shows up with her grandchildren.
A few weeks ago was my first flight in over 4 years. Give me Amtrak any time - where I can wait in my car until the train pulls in anyday! (Try that at JFK or ORD! )

The new TSA requirements are supposed to help weed out people who have the same or similar names to those on the watch list, but different birthdays, gender, etc. I really don't see what the big deal is - the government certainly already knows when I was born.

And I challenge you to wait in your car at NYP or WAS. When I'm flying through DCA, I can leave my apartment 1 hour before the flight, hop on the metro for 15 minutes, and arrive at the airport ~15 minutes before boarding. Security takes <5 minutes, and the walk to the gate is also ~5 minutes.

 

[cpamtfan]

The new rules that TSA is imposing (listing sex and date of birth) on boarding passes don't make much sense. OK, "Chris" could be male or female but I doubt there are many males named "Sue" or many females named "Antonio"! And it can be easily determined by most people just by looking that the "terrorist" who's name is on the no-fly list is not the 1 year old baby or the 98 year old great-great-great-great grandmother that shows up with her grandchildren.
A few weeks ago was my first flight in over 4 years. Give me Amtrak any time - where I can wait in my car until the train pulls in anyday! (Try that at JFK or ORD! )

The new TSA requirements are supposed to help weed out people who have the same or similar names to those on the watch list, but different birthdays, gender, etc. I really don't see what the big deal is - the government certainly already knows when I was born.

And I challenge you to wait in your car at NYP or WAS. When I'm flying through DCA, I can leave my apartment 1 hour before the flight, hop on the metro for 15 minutes, and arrive at the airport ~15 minutes before boarding. Security takes <5 minutes, and the walk to the gate is also ~5 minutes.

Yeah, but what if there are twenty more people doing the same as you, then the security line takes much longer. Also, you don't have to worry about security lines on Amtrak. But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

 

[Upstate]

But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

If only seeing what is outside the train window is all you want to see then yes, it is a good vacation in itself. For me there is much more to see in America than just what is within sight of the train tracks.

 

[the_traveler]

But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

If only seeing what is outside the train window is all you want to see then yes, it is a good vacation in itself. For me there is much more to see in America than just what is within sight of the train tracks.

True, if you just want to see certain things in say CA or FL. But if you fly there nonstop from NY, how much of OH, KS, AZ, VA or GA can you see (clearly and in detail) from 30,000 feet? :huh: I have seen much more of ND and WV from a train window than I have from a plane's window!

 

[PRR 60]

If only seeing what is outside the train window is all you want to see then yes, it is a good vacation in itself. For me there is much more to see in America than just what is within sight of the train tracks.

True, if you just want to see certain things in say CA or FL. But if you fly there nonstop from NY, how much of OH, KS, AZ, VA or GA can you see (clearly and in detail) from 30,000 feet? :huh: I have seen much more of ND and WV from a train window than I have from a plane's window!

There are times I am interested in ground level view afforded by Amtrak, and there are times I'm not. If I have a week for travel, limiting my options to Amtrak would constrain me to a pretty small area. Flying allows me to take that same week and go to some remote location and experience a new place in depth. That experience could even include an Amtrak trip. Or, it permits me to go to a favorite location and settle in for a solid week of pure rest and relaxation. Unless that location were very close by, I could not do that using Amtrak alone.

I'm always puzzled by some hardcore Amtrak supporters who, for some reason, feel that liking Amtrak requires disliking all other modes, especially air. In my case, every time I have travelled on an Amtrak long distance train, I have used air travel to make it possible. Without that option, there is not a single Amtrak LD trip that I could have taken in the last twenty years. And I've taken a bunch of them. That would seem to suggest that, as far as my travels go, Amtrak and air travel work great together. Maybe that's why I like them both.

 

[JayPea]

I'd rather travel Amtrak, but I simply don't have the time to make all trips completely airline-free. I view flying as necessary. I don't find it as enjoyable, but certainly don't disdain it as barbaric. Other than in Spokane, for some reason, I've never encountered any problems with TSA agents. Granted, a few years back, before my diabetes was diagnosed and I lost weight at a rapid pace, it became a problem every time I'd have to remove my belt after setting off the metal detector. More than once I almost gave a female TSA agent a thrill she probably didn't need! :lol:

For the times I have to get from Point A to Point B quickly, flying is no problem. I'd just rather take the train! And as PRR said, without flying, I'd probably have never been able to take a long-distance Amtrak trip. I just don't have that much time available to me at one time without rushing around.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

If only seeing what is outside the train window is all you want to see then yes, it is a good vacation in itself. For me there is much more to see in America than just what is within sight of the train tracks.

can you see America from 30,000 feet. for me taking amtrak is the vacation. when i had a week for vacation i took a trip from ROY to CHI to LAX and back without flying. that was a vacation itself.

 

[Upstate]

But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

If only seeing what is outside the train window is all you want to see then yes, it is a good vacation in itself. For me there is much more to see in America than just what is within sight of the train tracks.

True, if you just want to see certain things in say CA or FL. But if you fly there nonstop from NY, how much of OH, KS, AZ, VA or GA can you see (clearly and in detail) from 30,000 feet? :huh: I have seen much more of ND and WV from a train window than I have from a plane's window!

And on the same note your rides through these states at train speeds pales in comparison to walking. I have backpacked from GA to VA and in less than a day of looking out the train window at those states the claim that you have seen them is just as ridiculous as someone saying that they got to see them from an airplane. So you can look out your train window and look at the world going by, but in the end you sat in a chair and looked out the window. You didn't talk to the locals, didn't get to eat the local foods, didn't get to experience anything other than what Amtrak policy dictates and the routing of the host railroad.

 

[George_Harris]

The new rules that TSA is imposing (listing sex and date of birth) on boarding passes don't make much sense. OK, "Chris" could be male or female but I doubt there are many males named "Sue" or many females named "Antonio"! And it can be easily determined by most people just by looking that the "terrorist" who's name is on the no-fly list is not the 1 year old baby or the 98 year old great-great-great-great grandmother that shows up with her grandchildren.
A few weeks ago was my first flight in over 4 years. Give me Amtrak any time - where I can wait in my car until the train pulls in anyday! (Try that at JFK or ORD! )

The new TSA requirements are supposed to help weed out people who have the same or similar names to those on the watch list, but different birthdays, gender, etc. I really don't see what the big deal is - the government certainly already knows when I was born.

And I challenge you to wait in your car at NYP or WAS. When I'm flying through DCA, I can leave my apartment 1 hour before the flight, hop on the metro for 15 minutes, and arrive at the airport ~15 minutes before boarding. Security takes <5 minutes, and the walk to the gate is also ~5 minutes.

Try this if you have any metal in your body sufficient to set off the detectors. I have NEVER seen security take less than 5 minutes, even with everything going well and no line. Try: Laptop out of bag, laptop in one tray, laptop bag in another tray, pocket contents, cell phone, belt, etc. in third tray, shoes and jacket in fourth tray, backpack or other carryon either on its own or in one more tray. The go through, and reassemble all this mess. I would rathere go to the dentist after he had run out of novacaine. If it weren't for the need to go 2000 miles on occasions without taking 2 to 3 days or more, I would never again see the inside of an airplane.

 

[cbender]

Yeah, but what if there are twenty more people doing the same as you, then the security line takes much longer. Also, you don't have to worry about security lines on Amtrak. But I guess its hard to convince some people (such as you) that Amtrak travel isn't just about getting to your destination quickly, rather it is like a vacation in its self. You take in scenery and relax with ease.

Unless you've flown through DCA, I can understand your skepticism; it truly is a great airport, unless you're flying transcon or overseas. I've never had a problem with security at DCA, and have rarely had more than 3 or 4 people in front of me. The checkpoints just move efficiently, particularly so if you can take advantage of the premier lines.

I do understand the appeal of relaxing on the train; this is much like going on a cruise, but with more interesting scenery. However, I also like to spend time wherever I am headed (or else I wouldn't be headed there). If I'm going on a vacation, I typically do lots of hiking at the destination (literal hiking in wilderness areas; urban walking in cities). I think that is a much better way to see what's out there than looking out the window of any vehicle. If I'm taking a trip of less than a week, it's awfully hard to travel any reasonable distance by train and still have time to spend at my destination.

I actually like flying, and find it quite relaxing. Where else can I completely get away from everything for a few hours? Sitting in the metal tube doesn't bother me at all - most mainline aircraft are actually wider than train cars. Also, I quite like the view from 30,000 feet. I've seen some truly spectacular scenery, particularly in the western US, from the air. Not to be snarky, but I guess it's hard to convince some people that flying is fun.

I really think that there is a place in the US for both trains and planes. I would never consider flying from DC to NY; the train is vastly more convenient. However, flying is the way to go for long distance trips. If a medium distance trip (ie. DC - Chicago) can be made overnight, then a train makes sense. However, the trains must run at convenient times and preferably more than once per day. I should be able to get on a train after work at 6 or 6:30 pm, and arrive at my destination by morning. Alternatively, a morning train should reach the end point by evening. Return trips should be similarly timed.

To demonstrate the current scheduling problem, I just searched on amtrak.com DC - Chicago, outbound Monday, return Tuesday (ie. a typical business trip that is done by thousands of air travelers each day). The Capitol Limited departs DC at 4:05pm and arrives in Chicago at 8:40am. That seems perfectly reasonable, although a somewhat later departure time would be better. However, on the return, leave Chicago at 6:50pm (fine), and arrive in DC at 1:15pm. This means that Wednesday is lost. Both trips take ~17 hours. I'd say that travel time needs to get down to 12-13 hours to be really practical.

Now, these faults are not all Amtrak's fault - they have been hamstrung for decades by poor funding. However, there are real faults in the current system, and pretending they aren't there doesn't make it so. For most travelers that I know, outside of the corridors, Amtrak just doesn't make logistical sense over flying.

 

[cbender]

Try this if you have any metal in your body sufficient to set off the detectors. I have NEVER seen security take less than 5 minutes, even with everything going well and no line. Try: Laptop out of bag, laptop in one tray, laptop bag in another tray, pocket contents, cell phone, belt, etc. in third tray, shoes and jacket in fourth tray, backpack or other carryon either on its own or in one more tray. The go through, and reassemble all this mess. I would rathere go to the dentist after he had run out of novacaine. If it weren't for the need to go 2000 miles on occasions without taking 2 to 3 days or more, I would never again see the inside of an airplane.

Fortunately for me, I don't have any metal in my body. I guess I also fly enough that the routine at security is just second nature (actually, I often find myself irritated with others in front of me who don't seem to know the drill).

1) While waiting to get to the table with bins, untie shoe laces. Pocket contents into bag.

2) Laptop out of bag and into the only bin I use. Liquids/gels baggy out of bag and into same bin.

3) Bag zipped back up and put on belt behind bin.

4) Rollaboard suitcase onto belt behind bag.

5) Shoes on belt behind rollaboard.

6) Claim everything at the other end.

I haven't had to take off my belt in years. Unless you've got a rodeo buckle, I think you're probably fine.

I have noticed that the TSA at small town airports tend to be a bit more paranoid (or perhaps just less competent) than those at large metropolitan airports. On the rare occasion that I set off the metal detector (belt, pen, etc), it is at some airport with about 6 flights / day. If your local airport falls into this category, I feel your pain.

 

[volkris]

can you see America from 30,000 feet. for me taking amtrak is the vacation. when i had a week for vacation i took a trip from ROY to CHI to LAX and back without flying. that was a vacation itself.

Sure you can see America from 30,000 ft. It's just a very different perspective.

For example, I love flying over the Rockies, especially during the winter when you can see the fingers of snow outlining the ridges.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

can you see America from 30,000 feet. for me taking amtrak is the vacation. when i had a week for vacation i took a trip from ROY to CHI to LAX and back without flying. that was a vacation itself.

Sure you can see America from 30,000 ft. It's just a very different perspective.

For example, I love flying over the Rockies, especially during the winter when you can see the fingers of snow outlining the ridges.

thats my post not jimhudson.

 

[AlanB]

can you see America from 30,000 feet. for me taking amtrak is the vacation. when i had a week for vacation i took a trip from ROY to CHI to LAX and back without flying. that was a vacation itself.

Sure you can see America from 30,000 ft. It's just a very different perspective.

For example, I love flying over the Rockies, especially during the winter when you can see the fingers of snow outlining the ridges.

thats my post not jimhudson.

Fixed.

 

[DET63]

The new rules that TSA is imposing (listing sex and date of birth) on boarding passes don't make much sense. OK, "Chris" could be male or female but I doubt there are many males named "Sue" or many females named "Antonio"!

Then again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M89c3hWx3RQ

 

[Tim_Metra]

Like the movie: Plane. Trains, and Automobiles. We need all three. Planes for trips 3000 - 1000 miles, Trains for tirips 1000 -100 miles and Automobiles for trips 100 miles or less. The problem is that we have not worked on the our "train system" in over 50 years. I took a trip to Taiwan and their train system makes ours look "third world".

 

[Chris J.]

Without planes, I wouldn't be able to ride on Amtrak at all. Sure, there are ways to get across the Atlantic by boat; but I don't have that many days off work! However once I was there I didn't get in another plane until I left to come back home. This seemed to vaguely surprise some people.

I think it's all about picking the most suitable transportation method to the journey. Sometimes you have a load of stuff to carry so being able to put it in the car and drive it to your destination is a big factor. You might need to get there quickly, and so need the speed of a plane, or maybe the air schedules happen to fit best with the times you want to travel. Sometimes the train works best - you don't need to concentrate on a long drive, you may be near the station, and you can avoid the airline security headaches.

Train needs to be considered an option; a lot of people are in the mindset of "drive or fly", with trains not even getting considered.

 

[delvyrails]

Don't forget the "hybrid" option of trains that carry passengers' motor vehicles aboard.

 

[cbender]

Don't forget the "hybrid" option of trains that carry passengers' motor vehicles aboard.

I've never really seen the appeal of this over renting a car at the destination. I guess if you're taking a trip of more than a week or so, then the auto-train like approach might be cheaper. Or if you've got to transport a lot of stuff... But are those demographics really all that large? I tend to take short trips (< 7 days) and pack lightly, and so do most of the other people I know (although the packing lightly does vary from person to person )

 

[DET63]

Don't forget the "hybrid" option of trains that carry passengers' motor vehicles aboard.

I'd like to see an Auto-Train-like service on the West Coast. The southern terminus could be L.A.-Anaheim, since you have Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm, and a number of other popular tourist destinations in that area. The northern terminus would be a bit more of a challenge, though. I could see two points: one in the Northwest (Portland, OR-Vancouver, WA) for travelers from that area (including Seattle-Tacoma); and another in the Bay Area (San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose-Sacramento) for travelers from northern California or even Nevada. The problem would be whether to run two trains (which I assume would be the case), or to have one but with two separate boarding points (which would require a very long train, but would permit greater flexibility).

Unlike cbender, I think figures show that the Auto-Train service is popular. I don't know how it would work on the West Coast, though.