Another death at Lake Forest (IL) Metra station. Amtrak train strikes

[reppin_the_847]

There have been way too many train - pedestrian hits at the west Lake Forest (Illinois) station off of Telegraph Road. Some of these have involved Metra commuter trains. Other accidents & incidents have involved the fast moving Hiawatha trains. Amtrak is supposedly eventually going to have a stop here, but honestly IMO this stop can't come soon enough.

Here is the article: "Man struck, killed by Amtrak train in Lake Forest"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-forest-lake-bluff/ct-lake-forest-man-killed-by-train-tl-20140908-story.html

As these articles show, the Amtrak stop at Lake Forest makes sense. The problem is that a $4.5 million investment in a pedestrian underpass has to be created first:

http://lakeforest.suntimes.com/2014/07/15/west-lake-forest-train-station-4-5m-pedestrian-underpass/

http://gazebonews.com/2014/07/16/lake-forest-train-fatalities-what-about-the-tunnel/

Once this stop becomes a reality, Lake County (Illinois) will finally have its one and only Amtrak stop. It is also located in close proximity to a strong employment corridor within the northern suburbs of Chicago. This would be a huge boon for commuters from both the cities of Milwaukee & Chicago. I believe the stop would also become safer as a result of the added stop as well. I do not think the trip time from Milwaukee to Chicago (and vice versa) would be slowed down so much that the trip speed becomes an issue either.

 

[NorthShore]

And one of the richest suburbs can't come up with a measely few million bucks? If things have become that bad for its resident's multi millionaires, no wonder they're walking in front of trains.

 

[reppin_the_847]

And one of the richest suburbs can't come up with a measely few million bucks? If things have become that bad for its resident's multi millionaires, no wonder they're walking in front of trains.

Yeah, I too find it quite pathetic. There's a decent ridership base from the two Lake Forest stations into Chicago via the Metra rail service. Maybe they're pretty satisfied with the status quo, and don't see the urgent need for the Amtrak stop. The Amtrak stop can help folks in the area easily utilize Mitchell Airport in Milwaukee (WI) without having to park their car up there.

 

[NorthShore]

Amtrak station aside, if there is a serious pedestrian crossing safety concern, that should be resolved. It seems nonsensical that the mayor should be wringing his hands for five years about the struggle to find public financing in a suburb where numerous residents could easily make a donation, write it off on their taxes, and get naming rights, to boot. Either pass a tax or pass the hat. But it's shameful that they are just letting residents die rather than shelling out a few coins in a suburb where residents and businesses can certainly afford the upgrade. I propose a new motto which I find fitting: "Lake Forest: Let 'Em Die!"

 

[the_traveler]

If there is such a problem, why is it up to Amtrak to come up with the cost of the underpass? :huh: Why not METRA, who stops there? I'm sure more passengers ride METRA from there now than ride Amtrak from there now.

 

[VentureForth]

Wow. Looking at the street view of this station, there is NO reason why a pedestrian should get struck by ANY train. It's severe clear in BOTH directions! Trains don't sneak up on you. There is no reason to spend millions on an over or under pass.

Personal responsibility. Period. Now, if I read article after article where someone was crossing in an electric or wheel chair and they got stuck on the tracks, I may sing a different tune, but that's not apparently what's being reported.

Take a look at this Street View on Google Maps: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Albuquerque,+NM&hl=en&ll=35.058263,-106.583326&spn=0.000035,0.032938&sll=42.225512,-87.875385&sspn=0.006825,0.016469&oq=albu&hnear=Albuquerque,+Bernalillo+County,+New+Mexico&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.058266,-106.583441&panoid=Q78T8XoQwq9kRpAgEZb7OQ&cbp=12,70.18,,0,3.75

I lived blocks from this HOSPITAL in Albuquerque. See that nice big overpass, complete with ramps and stairs? In the two years I lived there, I've seen it used exactly ZERO times. Yet if you pan around, look what's right across the street from the hospital - a Starbucks. You know how many people (mostly hospital employees) I've seen play "Frogger" from the hospital to get to that Starbucks? More than I care to keep track of. At least in this example, there are no cross walks or traffic lights for blocks. The overpass makes sense. It's just ignored.

Underpasses are notorious for collecting homeless and taggers. Overpasses are used to defend the honor of one's sister.

I mean seriously, what are they going to do to keep people off the tracks when there IS an over/underpass? Put up a fence? I guess so - one of the articles says:

If the pedestrian underpass is constructed, the street-level crossing will be dismantled and the fencing restored to make it impossible for anyone to cross the tracks at grade level, according to Lake Forest resident Norm Carlson, a railroad historian who has been working with the city on the possible Amtrak stop and underpass for several years.

(Note: No fence makes it "impossible".)

That would mean they would have to build TWO underpasses - one on each end of the station.

Finally, Amtrak doesn't need a stop there. Plenty easy enough for folks to get to Amtrak using the commuter system.

 

[NorthShore]

I'd like to see ridership projections for the station. I suppose if there is some sense that it would provide residents of Milwaukee easier access to suburban Chicago jobs there might be some purpose to it. Though, wouldn't Lake/Cook Road be the better location for that? Perhaps elitist residents of the area simply feel that they deserve it as an express option to downtown, and further isolate themselves from the rest of the commuters.

 

[VentureForth]

Well, that's what I was beginning to think. When Amtrak shares stops with a commuter railroad, they start stealing seats from the long distance riders and giving commuters a more comfortable option - sometimes costs more, sometimes not. See: VRE, Coaster, Metrolink, just to name a few.

Something I noticed when looking at bing and google maps is that the East side of the station sits lower than the West side. There's one view (looking West) showing a lot of people crossing the tracks at the station building right behind a Metra departing. They can't see or know a Southbound train is coming.

So two observations: First - a simple elevator at the station to a subway to the other side. Second - it's not hard to install a simple crossing with arms just for pedestrians to cross the track. I don't know why they don't do this in the US (that I've seen) but in Japan, many double tracked lines have a set of arrows telling not only that a train is coming, but from which direction. Very useful in keeping people from jumping behind a departing train to get hit by an oncoming that's blind.

 

[SarahZ]

Glenview has the pedestrian crossing gates and bells. Perhaps they could install something at Lake Forest?

 

[fairviewroad]

When Amtrak shares stops with a commuter railroad, they start stealing seats from the long distance riders and giving commuters a more comfortable option - sometimes costs more, sometimes not. See: VRE, Coaster, Metrolink, just to name a few.

A fair point but in this case they would certainly not be stealing seats from "long distance" riders because even if the EB stopped here, it would be a D/R stop. Yes, a Lake Forest rider might steal a seat from a "longer distance" rider (i.e. CHI-Wisconsin rider) but only in terms of the physical seat, not in terms of their ability to purchase a ticket since the Hiawathas are unreserved. But looking at the schedule, there's just one Hiawatha each way that would work for a daily commuter to/from Chicago. Most Lake Forest riders would likely stick with Metra since Metra would still offer far more commuting options than Amtrak. [That said, I would only support making Lake Forest an Amtrak stop if ridership/revenue projections justify it.] One can easily imagine a Lake Forest rider connecting in Chicago to other Amtrak service to downstate Illinois, east coast, etc.

They can't see or know a Southbound train is coming.

Can't see, but they can know, since there are apparently "lights and bells" to alert pedestrians of an oncoming train. That said, I like the "arrow" idea (because that lets people know that the lights and bells aren't solely for the train that's already sitting in the station) and I also agree that a pedestrian crossing gate would be a logical and relatively low-cost way to ameliorate this situation.

 

[reppin_the_847]

Wow. Looking at the street view of this station, there is NO reason why a pedestrian should get struck by ANY train. It's severe clear in BOTH directions! Trains don't sneak up on you. There is no reason to spend millions on an over or under pass.

Personal responsibility. Period. Now, if I read article after article where someone was crossing in an electric or wheel chair and they got stuck on the tracks, I may sing a different tune, but that's not apparently what's being reported.

Take a look at this Street View on Google Maps: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Albuquerque,+NM&hl=en&ll=35.058263,-106.583326&spn=0.000035,0.032938&sll=42.225512,-87.875385&sspn=0.006825,0.016469&oq=albu&hnear=Albuquerque,+Bernalillo+County,+New+Mexico&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.058266,-106.583441&panoid=Q78T8XoQwq9kRpAgEZb7OQ&cbp=12,70.18,,0,3.75

I lived blocks from this HOSPITAL in Albuquerque. See that nice big overpass, complete with ramps and stairs? In the two years I lived there, I've seen it used exactly ZERO times. Yet if you pan around, look what's right across the street from the hospital - a Starbucks. You know how many people (mostly hospital employees) I've seen play "Frogger" from the hospital to get to that Starbucks? More than I care to keep track of. At least in this example, there are no cross walks or traffic lights for blocks. The overpass makes sense. It's just ignored.

Underpasses are notorious for collecting homeless and taggers. Overpasses are used to defend the honor of one's sister.

I mean seriously, what are they going to do to keep people off the tracks when there IS an over/underpass? Put up a fence? I guess so - one of the articles says:

If the pedestrian underpass is constructed, the street-level crossing will be dismantled and the fencing restored to make it impossible for anyone to cross the tracks at grade level, according to Lake Forest resident Norm Carlson, a railroad historian who has been working with the city on the possible Amtrak stop and underpass for several years.

(Note: No fence makes it "impossible".)

That would mean they would have to build TWO underpasses - one on each end of the station.

Finally, Amtrak doesn't need a stop there. Plenty easy enough for folks to get to Amtrak using the commuter system.

In regards to your opinion of Amtrak not not needing a stop there (in terms of the commuter market, not the safety issue), I think you're wrong. The employment market & the population density in Lake County (IL) is far higher than it was when my parents decided to move our family there in 1991. It is very much intertwined with the Chicago employment market and is within short commuting distances of a lot of attractions in the county. Furthermore, since Amtrak opened up a stop at General Mitchell Airport in Milwaukee, Lake County riders would love to have the option to take a 1 hour train ride north to the Milwaukee Airport. None of this stuff would've been a reality previously, but since the stop already exists now at the Milwaukee Airport, it now makes sense.

Besides, NY has an Amtrak stop at Croton-Harmon (NY) in Westchester County. The Empire Service trains & even the long distance trains have a stop here. This is even further out from NYC than Lake Forest is from Chicago. Like Lake Forest, Croton-Harmon shares its stop with the Metro North commuter railroad. NJ of course has a stop at Metropark. The Northeast Corridor trains, Acela trains, Keystones & even the Vermonter stop there. This stop is in Central Jersey in the middle of a rich employment market and is also about the same distance from NYC as Lake Forest is from Chicago. Metropark is also a busy stop for the NJ Transit commuter railroad.

I'm sorry, but comparing the commuter railroad market & metro area in Albuquerque to the Chicago area is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[the_traveler]

The stop at CRT is a holdover from the old days. Every locomotive that was going to GCT has to switch to electric locomotives at CRT. Now, Amtrak does it at ALB.

 

[fairviewroad]

I'm sorry, but comparing the commuter railroad market & metro area in Albuquerque to the Chicago area is like comparing apples to oranges.

Um, go back and read the post. I don't think anyone was making that comparison.

 

[Eric S]

This is the first talk I've heard of Amtrak adding a stop at Lake Forest. Previously there had been talk of shifting the Glenview stop to the North Glenview Metra station and/or adding a stop at Lake-Cook Road (or shifting the stop from Glenview to Lake-Cook Rd). I suppose adding Lake Forest adds some symmetry to the Hiawatha, with 2 stops in WI (MKA and SVT) and 1 in IL (GLN).

I'll be curious to see if the ongoing Hiawatha study being conducted by IDOT, WisDOT, Amtrak, CP, and others includes adding a Lake Forest stop.

 

[NorthShore]

How far apart are the Glenview and Lake Forest stations? How much of a difference would it make for potential passengers to use one over the other? If anything, it seems to me that perhaps a stop further north into Lake County would make more sense, if there were to be additions.

 

[George K]

How far apart are the Glenview and Lake Forest stations?

About 12 miles:

 

[jis]

NJ of course has a stop at Metropark. The Northeast Corridor trains, Acela trains, Keystones & even the Vermonter stop there. This stop is in Central Jersey in the middle of a rich employment market and is also about the same distance from NYC as Lake Forest is from Chicago. Metropark is also a busy stop for the NJ Transit commuter railroad.

More accurately speaking some Acelas, and very very few Keystones stop at Metropark. Some Regionals also skip Metropark. No LD trains stop at Metropark. No MD trains heading south or coming back up north stop at Metropark. Metropark happens to be a relatively large traffic generator for Amtrak. Indeed other than Newark, Metropark is the only station in NJ where more than one Acela stops. Given the density of traffic on the NEC it is possible to make such choices regarding some trains stopping at a station. There are Amtrak trains that even stop at New Brunswick and Princeton Jct., many fewer than 15 years back, but still they do. Contrary to popular belief, Amtrak has been consistently cutting stops in NJ over the last 15 years or so. Of course they have also added EWR as a stop, but that serves almost everyone other than folks in NJ given the short fares on Amtrak. But then Amtrak has essentially withdrawn Acela service at Trenton. At present only a single Acela stops there only on weekdays.
The station was designed as the overall plan for the Metroliner Service to be a Park and Ride serving NJ sitting right at an exit off of the Garden State Parkway. As originally planned it was intended to be a stop for NEC service short and whole corridor length both. When it opened it replaced two stations - Iselin and Colonia.

 

[reppin_the_847]

How far apart are the Glenview and Lake Forest stations?

About 12 miles:

How far apart are the Glenview and Lake Forest stations? How much of a difference would it make for potential passengers to use one over the other? If anything, it seems to me that perhaps a stop further north into Lake County would make more sense, if there were to be additions.

Honestly I think having the stops at Lake-Cook Road & maybe Gurnee would've potentially made more sense if they were going to start this from scratch. Lake-Cook Road gives you the most direct access to a large employment corridor. Gurnee gives you quick access to tourist attractions such as Six Flags Great America & Gurnee Mills shopping mall.