best amtrak myth

[guestlsa]

that weird why everymajor hliday they always talking bout people flying or taking buses or even driving but when I work 89/90 this past weeknd we took over 300 to savannah and brought 315 to new york!

That NOBODY ever rides Amtrak!
Over Thanksgiving Weekend, the news reported how many people drove or flew. I think they even mentioned buses. But I did not hear trains mentioned at all!

I happened to be at WLY on Saturday afternoon between 1:10 and 1:25. During those 15 minutes, I saw 2 southbound trains AND 4 northbound trains - for a total of 6 trains in 15 minutes! But nobody rides trains!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

that weird why everymajor hliday they always talking bout people flying or taking buses or even driving but when I work 89/90 this past weeknd we took over 300 to savannah and brought 315 to new york!

That NOBODY ever rides Amtrak!
Over Thanksgiving Weekend, the news reported how many people drove or flew. I think they even mentioned buses. But I did not hear trains mentioned at all!

I happened to be at WLY on Saturday afternoon between 1:10 and 1:25. During those 15 minutes, I saw 2 southbound trains AND 4 northbound trains - for a total of 6 trains in 15 minutes! But nobody rides trains!

You can hear them mention planes and cars

You can hear them mention planes, cars and trains

You can hear them mention planes, cars and buses

What you can almost never hear is planes, cars, buses and trains.

Surprisingly our local NBC affiliate, Eleven Alive, has been known to go to the Amtrak station at holidays and film the crowds. It actually has happened for which I am most grateful. It did not happen this year, though, so far as I know. I remember there used to be a train buff on their photo staff and maybe he kinda saw to that.

Sadly=======and, no, this is not a sick joke=====he was actually run over and killed by the Crescent one night doing that very thing. But no, they did not stop the coverage because of that. That happened maybe 20 years ago, lots of water over the dam. I am kind of suggesting that having that railfan on their staff may have influenced them a little more. But actually they are quite close to the station, closer than I am.

In fact, I remember writing a letter of complaint to Eleven Alive one time because of their coverage, something about how slow the train is compared to the plane and I explained they needed to compare it with the bus instead. I got a nice letter back.

 

[VentureForth]

"We're scheduled to arrive on time today"

 

[Bierboy]

I was talking to a kid yesterday at a store who saw my Glacier National Park jacket and mentioned that his uncle lived near there. Told him I'd taken the train to Montana, and he said he should look into that. Turns out his uncle lives in Whitefish, and I told him the EB actually stops there. He was really impressed. I guess it's not a myth, but so many folks have no idea that Amtrak serves cities they're supposedly familiar with...

 

[wayman]

I was talking to a kid yesterday at a store who saw my Glacier National Park jacket and mentioned that his uncle lived near there. Told him I'd taken the train to Montana, and he said he should look into that. Turns out his uncle lives in Whitefish, and I told him the EB actually stops there. He was really impressed. I guess it's not a myth, but so many folks have no idea that Amtrak serves cities they're supposedly familiar with...

Publicity can go a long way -- I hope Amtrak starts to do much more with this, targeted to local markets where awareness is low (I'm thinking Atlanta, Houston, and smaller places like Whitefish). Lynchburg has always had decent numbers on the Crescent, but with the publicity blitz surrounding the new Regional, hundreds of folks came to the inaugural celebration and more importantly, hundreds are riding it on some days. With a second train, and more importantly with advertising, daily ridership from Lynchburg has probably, on average, gone up by at least a factor of five. (I'm eager to see the official statistics when they're published.)

The Saturday before Thanksgiving (not Thanksgiving weekend), 236 passengers boarded the Regional in Lynchburg. No, that's not a typo. That's straight from the station agent, who said it was an all-time record, but that it's several times been well above 100 and close to 200 since service began, and regularly much higher than predicted. It wasn't a one-time fluke (but it was connected to the start of Liberty University's absurd week-long Thanksgiving holiday).

Ridership has been high enough that (a) Kemper St Station may have to enlarge its parking facilities, and (b) there are already some quiet discussions among the VA legislature, Amtrak, and NS about whether it's possible to extend service to Roanoke ahead of the original "maybe in three years" plan.

There are some major logistical issues with that last one which make it extremely unlikely -- they just built new tracks and platform extensions in Lynchburg including the all-important overnight storage siding; hired additional station personnel and coach cleaners and maintenance crew based in Lynchburg; and most importantly have a wye right there to turn the train. In Roanoke, none of that exists (including no easy wye, so they may have to run two engines back-to-back and run them around the consist at the Roanoke end, not to mention the investment in trackwork in Lynchburg becomes somewhat wasted...). And of course, no current Amtrak station in Roanoke -- it's relatively easy (as these things go) to add a second daily frequency when you've got a great station like Lynchburg's already in place, but much harder when you're starting from scratch to add a first train!

But just the fact that they're already discussing at any level it is pretty astonishing. If you build it -- and advertise it -- they will come. People will come, Mr. Boardman. People will most definitely come.

 

[DaveKCMO]

I was talking to a kid yesterday at a store who saw my Glacier National Park jacket and mentioned that his uncle lived near there. Told him I'd taken the train to Montana, and he said he should look into that. Turns out his uncle lives in Whitefish, and I told him the EB actually stops there. He was really impressed. I guess it's not a myth, but so many folks have no idea that Amtrak serves cities they're supposedly familiar with...

it appalls me when any town with amtrak service **and nothing else** won't make that part of their marketing strategy. it's standard issue here in missouri for the smaller towns on the river runner route to recommend amtrak to visitors.

 

[transit54]

I was talking to a kid yesterday at a store who saw my Glacier National Park jacket and mentioned that his uncle lived near there. Told him I'd taken the train to Montana, and he said he should look into that. Turns out his uncle lives in Whitefish, and I told him the EB actually stops there. He was really impressed. I guess it's not a myth, but so many folks have no idea that Amtrak serves cities they're supposedly familiar with...

It's also interesting how people only see the train in a certain context. Several times a year I'll spend an evening in Montpelier or Waterbury, VT. Rather than driving, I take a commuter bus down and I'll take the Vermonter back. I get asked all the time, "Are you going to spend the night in Montpelier/Waterbury?" and when I reply that I'm taking the train back, I routinely hear, "I didn't know there was a train!" Then I'll go on to explain that yes, there is a train called the Vermonter and it goes all the way to Washington, DC. The second I mention that almost everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about and will say, "Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about that train!" People think about it when they think about traveling a sizable distance, but they don't consider it for a 30 or 40 mile journey. Actually, most people around here have heard of the train but don't know much about it or have ever taken it.

 

[saxman]

When I lived in Grand Forks, a college town in North Dakota, the Empire Builder stopped there at 1 AM and 5 AM. Even with those middle of the night call times, I would say at least 4 out of 5 people knew about the train. Many students would take it to Minot, or Williston. One guy in my dorm took Amtrak home to Milwaukee almost every month or more it seemed. He said he would never drive. Another few were from Havre and Malta, MT and they alway took the train instead of making the 10 hour drive down US 2 which is mostly two lanes west of Williston.

Now contrast that with my area now. Even though Dallas and Fort Worth receive pretty decent service in the middle of the day, I always get that look....what? there's a train here. Many do know about the local light rail and commuter rail systems, but thats about it. But I do know one girl that thought trains were only for "stuff", not people. "What, there're trains that people can ride on??"

 

[JAChooChoo]

Amtrak is on the Glidepath to profitabilty George Warrington

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually the biggest myth about Amtrak was the one sold to Congress and President Nixon back when Amtrak was created. That myth of course was that Amtrak would somehow be profitable. And it's a myth that has haunted Amtrak for all of its years.
How anyone ever expected to take a bunch of money loosing passenger RR's, roll them into one big company, and somehow suddenly and miraculously turn it into a profitable business is beyond me. I could see with the right management and circumstances (like not having to beg each year for money), how Amtrak might be able to one day reach a point where it covers its operating expenses. But it will always need help with capital expenses, especially for as long as it continues to own track.

I could see how they would have thought that. It makes sense on some levels. Like the New York-Chicago routes. They were thinking that if you channel all the passengers on to one train, you are drastically cutting overhead and thus likely producing a profit. Obviously, they are highly ignorant of the nature of train travel, but its not unreasonable to think that.

And our Congress hasn't changed much over all the years. Now they think we can add 30 million uninsured people to our healthcare system and reducethe cost of care for all of us!!

Actually, in this case I thoroughly believe that. Health care prices are insanely inflated. I took my girlfriend to the ER for a simply CTscan. Price? $9600. When the insurance company was done throwing out gratuitous charges and paying what it was actually worth, the price was more like $800.

I think if you were to put a very efficient team in place to make costs and prices sane and reasonable, you will find that the promise will come true...

We can discuss the fact that "government run" and "efficient" are mutually exclusive as Amtrak is probably about the most cost efficient government agency.

Amtrak is on the Glidepath to profitabilty George Warrington

Myth: a widely held but false belief or idea. See "Paradiddle"

Monumental and Fatuous Mega-Lie: A complete and total recital of information that is completely and totally untrue, fully known by the person producing it and anyone with even a minor inkling of the situation. See "complete bu11$h*t"

There is a difference between a myth and total lie on the part of one of the biggest ego-maniacs to ever walk the halls of our generally egotistical Capitol.

By the way, profitability wasn't what he said. What he said was "self-sufficiency".

 

[DowneasterPassenger]

"Amtrak is ALWAYS late."

 

[Konrad]

over the years, i have heard some wonderful amtrak myths. i remember a few years ago on this board the myth was circulated by a few that as of a certain date there would be massive route cuts. a while back, i read somewhere that the ppcs were going to be transferred to the eb. i had a lsa on the cs tell me once that the reason for the chronic lateness of the train was not the u.p. but stops for smoke breaks. what are your favorite amtrak myths from over the years?

'Guaranteed Connection'

Oh, you mean the train you were expecting to catch?

In the same standard of accommodation??

Arriving on the same day???

 

[rrdude]

Another thing I hear often is "won't I be forced to share my sleeper compartment with strangers?"

Could be fun,...............or NOT.

 

[DivMiler]

... daily ridership from Lynchburg has probably, on average, gone up by at least a factor of five. (I'm eager to see the official statistics when they're published.)

Where does one find the official passenger statistics for a given station? I saw it once (maybe AlanB mentioned it), but didn't save the link, unfortunately. It might have been a PDF file.

 

[rrdude]

Actually the biggest myth about Amtrak was the one sold to Congress and President Nixon back when Amtrak was created. That myth of course was that Amtrak would somehow be profitable. And it's a myth that has haunted Amtrak for all of its years.

It was a lie and almost everyone involved knew it was a lie. Probably the only people that did not were the politiicians, who alwasy seem to be operating under the halluciatnion that the government can do things more efficiently than the private businesses that had been doing them.

Getting rid of about half the passenger trains running on A-day minus one did help carry the hallucination forward, becuase suddenly it was costing less nationally to run trains than it had been. No one in congress seemed to be alble to grasp that there were a lot less trains running.

And our Congress hasn't changed much over all the years. Now they think we can add 30 million uninsured people to our healthcare system and reduce

the cost of care for all of us!!

If you took a CLOSE look at the WASTE in the HC field now, you might change your mind...... I felt as you did at one time, dug in deep to all options, and am now of the opinion that indeed it can.......Now AMTRAK is another matter.....

 

[rrdude]

Sadly=======and, no, this is not a sick joke=====he was actually run over and killed by the Crescent one night doing that very thing. But no, they did not stop the coverage because of that. That happened maybe 20 years ago, lots of water over the dam. I am kind of suggesting that having that railfan on their staff may have influenced them a little more. But actually they are quite close to the station, closer than I am.

No Sh**? The guy was doing a story on rail travel and got run over and killed? I'd love to read about that.............

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Sadly=======and, no, this is not a sick joke=====he was actually run over and killed by the Crescent one night doing that very thing. But no, they did not stop the coverage because of that. That happened maybe 20 years ago, lots of water over the dam. I am kind of suggesting that having that railfan on their staff may have influenced them a little more. But actually they are quite close to the station, closer than I am.

No Sh**? The guy was doing a story on rail travel and got run over and killed? I'd love to read about that.............

That is correct. I probably have the old newspaper clippings here.

It was treated respectfully as a news story and as an obit. He had been working for several years at that, it is not as if he did not know what he was doing and then just went out one time to shoot a train and got run over immediately.

Probably about 20 years ago I guess, I have lived here near the station about 32 years so saying it happened about 20 years ago sounds and feels about right. I seem to think it as being during about 1970 to 1979 when the train was known as the "Southern Crescent". I think the guy's name was Jimmy Harmon.

A dining car employe, Lewis Price, was featured in several ads in several publications for his made from scratch buiscuits. He died one morning when the northbound Crescent jumped the tracks in Virginia. He was starting to get breakfast ready. He was the only fatality as I remember.

 

[AlanB]

... daily ridership from Lynchburg has probably, on average, gone up by at least a factor of five. (I'm eager to see the official statistics when they're published.)

Where does one find the official passenger statistics for a given station? I saw it once (maybe AlanB mentioned it), but didn't save the link, unfortunately. It might have been a PDF file.

Here.

 

[wayman]

... daily ridership from Lynchburg has probably, on average, gone up by at least a factor of five. (I'm eager to see the official statistics when they're published.)

Where does one find the official passenger statistics for a given station? I saw it once (maybe AlanB mentioned it), but didn't save the link, unfortunately. It might have been a PDF file.

Here.

Thanks, Alan.

The numbers for LYH in 2008 and 2007 are fascinating. 25,383 in 2008; 18,744 in 2007. That's a 40% increase from 2007 to 2008. (That's "station usage", boardings plus alightings; to get "ridership", take just boardings, but the percentage change remains the same.) Compared with 11% systemwide ridership increase from 2007 to 2008, that's a huge difference.

25,383 = about 17 passengers detraining 20, 17 boarding 20, 17 detraining 19, and 17 boarding 19 on average per day in 2008. That sounds about right to me -- I'd say it's about 15 on most days and 40 on holidays in my experience, which works out.

For 2009, the first nine months might be roughly the same dailies -- just the Crescent, and if LYH continues to perform "better than national average" it might have seen zero loss/growth (while nationally ridership dropped off some). And the last three months will be much higher -- two trains, plus some additional upturn in ridership due to economic recovery. I'd estimate 9 replacing each 17 above for the Crescent, plus 55 boardings and 55 alightings for the Regional on an average day ... which gives 146 total per day, just over double (not quintuple). Of course, the bulk of that is the new train, and the loss of riders on the Crescent from LYH is made up by more riders elsewhere -- they're not losing any passengers there.

My prediction is 32,485 for LYH in 2009, and 70,080 for LYH in 2010 (over its first full year of operation, the Regional will nearly triple station usage at LYH). Though ... if they report FY numbers (Oct-Sep) for station usage instead of calendar year numbers (Jan-Dec) the numbers will be different:

I'd guess 25,383 for LYH FY 2009 (Crescent-only all year) and 67,160 (both trains all year) for LYH FY 2010.

 

[Phila 30th St]

I'm a fan of "Amtrak is always late".

 

[DET63]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy

Google "reason magazine" and "Amtrak" and you'll probably come up with lots of headlines that most here would dismiss as myths.

 

[oldtimer]

As far as myths; How about "Satisfaction Guaranteed"

:blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[Neil_M]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy

Loving the comic book, is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Amtrakman!

 

[jis]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy
Google "reason magazine" and "Amtrak" and you'll probably come up with lots of headlines that most here would dismiss as myths.

The word Reason in the name of that organization is just aspirational. Unreason would be more realistic.

 

[Bob Dylan]

From Reason.com: Amtrak Sucks: Traveling Soviet-style aboard America's $30,000,000,000.00 nostalgia toy

Loving the comic book, is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Amtrakman!

Fantastic! Once I quit rolling around laughing I'll finish this post! :lol:

Really good satire, especially the "old timer foamers and rail buffs", the blame UP is another highlight! Good thing that none of our members would ever be like this and that Amtrak is so well run and has such "World Class" Service! :lol:

there's an old saying about those that can't laugh @ themselves will end up crying, amen brother!