Brightline Trains Florida discussion 2023 Q4

[Anderson]

That's the problem with most long distance trains. Not enough demand to justify more than one train per day for most routes, so, by definition, many places will be served at horrible times. I wish the Silver Star would run 6 hours ahead of the Meteor to get some variety in the overnight schedules.

I really don't see Brightline to carry many people from Miami to Tampa. It'll mostly be MIA-MCO, and MCO-TPA or points between. It just won't make sense to take a 5-6 hours train journey when you can drive that in less than 4 1/2 hours.

MIA-TPA, perhaps not. That's also a workable air market, to be fair. However, the TPA-FLL/WPB markets are probably a different story (and the situation is probably more favorable to Cocoa or Stuart/Fort Pierce as well). Also, time of day does matter here - South Florida's traffic is quite unpleasant to drive in, so I think a lot of folks will take a pass if they can help it.

As to the Star/Meteor, pulling the Star earlier by another three hours or so SB would get Columbia out of the graveyard but you'd have Jacksonville land there. Pushing NB later would do the same thing. However, in both cases the train would get a bit "bunched up" with the Palmetto/Carolinian north of Rocky Mount (the SB Star/Carolinian would only be 30-40 minutes apart, though I don't think it's unreasonable to sort-of swap their timetables and have NC run one of the Piedmonts to connect with the Star - as of now, the Star has no such connection; you could probably also just use an existing train for the connection from NC heading north).

[What's really needed on the Florida service is more trains, but that's a tired refrain that will probably not stop being true in the foreseeable future.]

 

[VentureForth]

[What's really needed on the Florida service is more trains, but that's a tired refrain that will probably not stop being true in the foreseeable future.]

Wonder why Amtrak was never able to get the FEC line from Jax to Miami to work out. There was a lot of interest, but it just never panned out.

 

[VentureForth]

I did finally take it at the beginning of November, booking first class, working during the ride, and renting a car at MCO, for a two-day work meeting in Melbourne.

Isn't it frustrating to backtrack to Melbourne to see the train flying past without it stopping?

It is mine.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

[What's really needed on the Florida service is more trains, but that's a tired refrain that will probably not stop being true in the foreseeable future.]

I am more for 6 hours apart with 4 trains daily to NYC.

Wonder why Amtrak was never able to get the FEC line from Jax to Miami to work out. There was a lot of interest, but it just never panned out.

They finally got the last piece in place. The group that was behind this were long gone. Amtrak just never pulled the trigger. Then Brightline came along, so it was more Amtrak lack of interest after all the improvements were done for FEC.

 

[bonzoesc]

Isn't it frustrating to backtrack to Melbourne to see the train flying past without it stopping?

It is mine.

Quite.

 

[west point]

Believe it or not. There is more passengers TPA <> SE Florida than Atlanta's p[assenger loads.

 

[Anderson]

Believe it or not. There is more passengers TPA <> SE Florida than Atlanta's p[assenger loads.

I know. Atlanta is in a graveyard slot, too...

 

[cirdan]

Everything involves tradeoffs. The important question is what is the "telos" of the outfit. For passenger railways it has got to be "carrying passengers in a way that is convenient for the passengers", as opposed to convenient for the railway. When tradeoff decisions are made they need to be made within the confines of the core purpose of the outfit, not to make life more comfortable for those operating it alone.

In the case of Brightline, one could argue that this train of thought is indeed legitimate. Government funded systems should be there to serve the public. What exactly constitutes the public interest is in itself a tricky discussion, and there may be different approaches to defining what is meant by public interest, or how to balance divergent interests when they are in conflict. But Brightline, being privately owned and funded , does not need to engage in this discussion. For Brightline it is very simple. The company is accountable first and foremost to its shareholders. They only need to please passengers as far as doing so serves the interests of shareholders. There is no rationale to go beyond that.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

For Brightline it is very simple. The company is accountable first and foremost to its shareholders. They only need to please passengers as far as doing so serves the interests of shareholders. There is no rationale to go beyond that.

When you’re in the passengers carrying business, the needs and interests of said passengers is more important than the shareholders. No passengers, equal no income. No income, no need for shareholders.
That would be the rationale for a culture focus on the passengers experience.

 

[jis]

As we have been discussing ....

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...to-test-after-customer-service-snafu-18321927
Looks like people are noticing. Maybe this will give an impetus to Brightline to clean up their act.

 

[jis]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but is an interesting piece from someone who has ridden both Acela and Brightline, but apparently has not recently driven from Miami to Orlando.

https://www.insider.com/comparing-h...-in-florida-id-nearly-always-choose-my-car-25
I don't know of too many people who would choose to drive from Miami to Orlando mostly on I-95.

And here in my opinion is a more realistic view of the Brightline ride and its effect on Florida area residents from someone who actually has driven from Miami to Orlando other than virtually on Google Map.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/florida-brightline-train-orlando-to-miami-what-its-like-8384021
Of course we in the proverbial "rail by" zone in Space Coast look forward eagerly to our own Cocoa station.

 

[George Harris]

Wonder why Amtrak was never able to get the FEC line from Jax to Miami to work out. There was a lot of interest, but it just never panned out.

Because Florida East Coast did not join Amtrak. By that time FEC had no passenger trains, so neither did it want to nor could it be compelled to.

 

[bonzoesc]

I don't know of too many people who would choose to drive from Miami to Orlando mostly on I-95.

I think it depends on your destination in Orlando, your aversion to turns, and/or the specific Turnpike conditions in Broward and Palm Beach counties.

These are all originating in the Coconut Grove neighborhood of the City of Miami, a few miles south of the I-95 origin, and while only the UCF one presented an I-95 to Beeline routing, that is specific to Apple Maps on this Saturday night in Miami.

 

[Anderson]

I'm surprised it doesn't give I-95 as an option given that SR528 is like a $4-5 toll while the Turnpike is like $14 from South Florida. Losing 10 min to save $10 seems not unreasonable to me...

 

[ManganeseFrog]

Trains have been running at 110 mph along the FEC for over a week and Brightline's website shows the faster trips with 16/18 weekday round trips beginning Monday the 4th. That would be a week earlier than it said previously. Weekends show MIA-WPB round trips at 17.

In reading the the October report, I found what Brightline has to say about the wraps. "With the opening of our long-distance service to Orlando, we anticipate entering into additional high-value sponsorship and advertising agreements with other companies. For example, we have also accelerated sales of our train wraps. We currently have 8 different entities who will be wrapping our trains as advertising, including Discover the Palm Beaches, Visit Orlando, and Hospital of Special Surgery, with additional sales in progress."

Disappointing for sure, but whatever the case may be, Brightline thinks it's working out well.

Newest wrap: Bahamas.

 

[VentureForth]

Because Florida East Coast did not join Amtrak. By that time FEC had no passenger trains, so neither did it want to nor could it be compelled to.

Well, I know that, but they showed enough interest to host a trial train. No, they weren’t compelled, but the demand and interest in a resurgence seemed to be there.

 

[jis]

Because Florida East Coast did not join Amtrak. By that time FEC had no passenger trains, so neither did it want to nor could it be compelled to.

Well, I know that, but they showed enough interest to host a trial train. No, they weren’t compelled, but the demand and interest in a resurgence seemed to be there.

Indeed, they did participate quite enthusiastically in that trial run, but like many things in Florida, the whole thing fizzled like the South Sea Bubble. Much was published in newspapers, so much as to confuse some folks in the Treasure Coast confusing that effort with the Brightline effort that soon followed, and were peeved that the station promised to them was not delivered, while their county governments were busy suing Brightline wasting everyone's money and making attorneys rich.

The bottom line is no one came up with the funds to build any of the stations which were identified in an EIS that was done. It could be revived if there is enough interest, and of course now Brightline would have the first right of refusal per their agreement with FECR. At any rate it is at best a dormant proposal for now.

 

[Mike Nogrady]

Isn't it frustrating to backtrack to Melbourne to see the train flying past without it stopping?

It is mine.

Why no planned stop at Coco/Melbourne?

 

[jis]

Why no planned stop at Coco/Melbourne?

There is a planned stop. There is a proposed station location. It was always stated that it would be addressed in due time after full service is established to Orlando. The proposed station location is in Cocoa so as to have easy access to SR 528 for accessing Port Canaveral by bus shuttle.

 

[railiner]

Met some friends for lunch at a nice Fort Pierce waterside restaurant yesterday, and we were “entertained” by several passing Brightline trains. I had thought they would pass by at higher speed…even 79 mph, but from my vantage point, they appeared to be going fairly slow, more like 30 …?

 

[jis]

Met some friends for lunch at a nice Fort Pierce waterside restaurant yesterday, and we were “entertained” by several passing Brightline trains. I had thought they would pass by at higher speed…even 79 mph, but from my vantage point, they appeared to be going fairly slow, more like 30 …?

In Fort Pierce, between Milepost 240.8 and 241.4 there are significant segments of 40mph and 50mph, and between 240 and 240.8 there is 60mph. Needless to add that around that there would be some significant length of slowing down and speeding up too. As a matter of fact to the south there is no 100mph before it gets to 243.5. north of 240.8 is 110mph, though until recently it was cleared for only 90mph.

 

[cirdan]

Trains have been running at 110 mph along the FEC for over a week and Brightline's website shows the faster trips with 16/18 weekday round trips beginning Monday the 4th. That would be a week earlier than it said previously. Weekends show MIA-WPB round trips at 17.

how great is the time savings achieved by the speed-up?

 

[daybeers]

Trains have been running at 110 mph along the FEC for over a week and Brightline's website shows the faster trips with 16/18 weekday round trips beginning Monday the 4th. That would be a week earlier than it said previously. Weekends show MIA-WPB round trips at 17.

Great to hear.

Disappointing for sure, but whatever the case may be, Brightline thinks it's working out well.

Certainly disappointing for me. I won't pay their high fares just to look at dots the whole ride. Maybe my premium voucher I got from them pushing back Orlando service will expire before I can use it...sad...

 

[Anderson]

Great to hear.


Certainly disappointing for me. I won't pay their high fares just to look at dots the whole ride. Maybe my premium voucher I got from them pushing back Orlando service will expire before I can use it...sad...

I mean, if you're not going to use a free ride voucher because of this, can you at least offer it to someone on here who will?

 

[daybeers]

I would but unfortunately it says it's nontransferable.