Brightline Trains West!

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Yeah, the party car is obviously aimed directly at Brightline West. Presumably if they do go for it it'll be open as a bar car or lounge when not booked by a group; it wouldn't be practical to swap it out with a regular car in a fixed trainset.
A computer mockup is easy to create. The proof of the pudding will be whether Brightline actually orders cars like that and how they will market them.

On-train catering (I am using the words in the broadest sense here) are typically a loss leader. As we know from Amtrak it is nigh on impossible to provide such services profitably or even in a cost-neutral way. On a high speed train, with the higher costs per car and thus per seat, this question is even more pertinent. Maybe the equation shifts somewhat if the casinos would chip in and provide support. Only time will tell.
 
This is positive news for California and Nevada residents but it is a shame that Brightline could not plan to restart the Amtrak Desert Wind route that went LA to LAS, onto Boise, ID , and Salt Lake City, UT; two other major cities without LD rail service. Amtrak already had that service and the tracks and small station in LAS may still be there.
 
This is positive news for California and Nevada residents but it is a shame that Brightline could not plan to restart the Amtrak Desert Wind route that went LA to LAS, onto Boise, ID , and Salt Lake City, UT; two other major cities without LD rail service. Amtrak already had that service and the tracks and small station in LAS may still be there.
That is not consistent with Brightline's business model. They recognize that restoring Desert Wind cannot be a money making proposition. Their model is fast 16-20 services per day corridor. They will never go into the business of restoring random old Amtrak trains, and they are unlikely to use too many Amtrak stations either. There is Amtrak still around for doing that. Brightline would selectively use common facilities developed for service that complies with their operating model. So at some point they could use the CAHSR facilities as they develop in the LA Basin could use something like LAX.

And by the way, the Desert Wind never went to Boise ID.
 
That is not consistent with Brightline's business model. They recognize that restoring Desert Wind cannot be a money making proposition. Their model is fast 16-20 services per day corridor. They will never go into the business of restoring random old Amtrak trains, and they are unlikely to use too many Amtrak stations either. There is Amtrak still around for doing that. Brightline would selectively use common facilities developed for service that complies with their operating model. So at some point they could use the CAHSR facilities as they develop in the LA Basin could use something like LAX.

And by the way, the Desert Wind never went to Boise ID.
Pre-Brightline versions of the project envisioned using a shared CAHSR station at Palmdale, I believe, since doing so would enable interline feed from CAHSR in the Central Valley. But there's a difference between using a shared station at a probable interchange point and "Let's share everything!"
 
The Union Pacific's City of Las Vegas had a one of a kind bar car decorated as an English pub. That never made sense running through the desert, but it was the 1960's and it was in style. The Winter Park Express sells a lot of liquor in about the same running time as Brightline will have, so an efficient operation might make money.
 
The Union Pacific's City of Las Vegas had a one of a kind bar car decorated as an English pub. That never made sense running through the desert, but it was the 1960's and it was in style. The Winter Park Express sells a lot of liquor in about the same running time as Brightline will have, so an efficient operation might make money.
Oh, an efficient cafe operation definitely can make money. The Lynchburger managed it quite early on (helped out by the head of VA's DRPT prodding Amtrak on F&B suggestions because he was a big fan of old railroad operations and so had a good idea of what would sell when).

The question is how you want to handle things - beverage cart or dedicated sale space or something different - and what sort of catering you want to offer, and those choices have implications for how much it will cost, staffing needs, and so on.
 
A computer mockup is easy to create. The proof of the pudding will be whether Brightline actually orders cars like that and how they will market them.

On-train catering (I am using the words in the broadest sense here) are typically a loss leader. As we know from Amtrak it is nigh on impossible to provide such services profitably or even in a cost-neutral way. On a high speed train, with the higher costs per car and thus per seat, this question is even more pertinent. Maybe the equation shifts somewhat if the casinos would chip in and provide support. Only time will tell.

My opinion is that too often, food service on trains (and in other situations) is viewed as an independent good that is viewed as something that should be profitable on its own. But it's not independent. I can't just decided I want to go to the Amtrak dining car for dinner unless I'm first on the train. My patronage of the dining car is dependent on me first traveling on the train. And there is some percentage of the population that will not consider travel by train unless there is food service. So to some extent, it needs to be a loss leader as without it, you also forgo the transportation revenue from those who will not ride without food service. Or another way to look at it is transportation revenue needs to subsidize food service as that food service is needed to generate that transportation revenue.
 
That's a valid point, but given the travel times I don't think Brightline West needs food service any more elaborate than Brightline in Florida. That being said it might make more sense staffing wise to have a dedicated takeaway counter in one care (along with revenue seating) instead of cart service for non-premium passengers. On the other hand having attendants making the rounds and actively selling might lead to higher sales. Japanese and Korean HSR manage fine with cart service. And I say this as someone who actually prefers being able to get up out of my seat and go to a cafe car.
 
Pre-Brightline versions of the project envisioned using a shared CAHSR station at Palmdale, I believe, since doing so would enable interline feed from CAHSR in the Central Valley. But there's a difference between using a shared station at a probable interchange point and "Let's share everything!"
Thats still going to happen at some point in the future with High Desert Corridor being the connecting link. LA metro might end up funding that line
 
That's a valid point, but given the travel times I don't think Brightline West needs food service any more elaborate than Brightline in Florida. That being said it might make more sense staffing wise to have a dedicated takeaway counter in one care (along with revenue seating) instead of cart service for non-premium passengers. On the other hand having attendants making the rounds and actively selling might lead to higher sales. Japanese and Korean HSR manage fine with cart service. And I say this as someone who actually prefers being able to get up out of my seat and go to a cafe car.
On the Austrian Railjet you can order food using an app and the attendant delivers it to your seat. This also has the advantage that the app handles the payment side so staff don't lose time on that. You can use a broader range of payment methods than a normal portable device can handle . The app is also connected to the inventory system so you cannot normally inadvertently order something that is out of stock. You can alternatively also go to the counter and order there or sit down in the restaurant.
 
So if Brightline Florida business plan is to make money on real estate sales along the line, what is the business plan for Brightline West between LV and RC?
 
So if Brightline Florida business plan is to make money on real estate sales along the line, what is the business plan for Brightline West between LV and RC?
I would think the end to end business would be the plan to make money on Brightline West. The traffic going over the hill between these two points is quite annoying.
 
So if Brightline Florida business plan is to make money on real estate sales along the line, what is the business plan for Brightline West between LV and RC?
That is certainly the word among the railfans since they usually are more convinced than everyone else that passenger rail operations cannot be profitable. But in the official papers that Brightline Florida has produced for Bond issuance and such, the goal is clearly stated to be making money on the rail operations. The plan for Brightline West is also the same. Incidentally they will get some income from real estate, but that is not their ongoing primary source of income. Quite a bit of it is to provide startup funding.
I would think the end to end business would be the plan to make money on Brightline West. The traffic going over the hill between these two points is quite annoying.
Indeed. Incidentally it was explained to me that Brightline West is an entirely separate company from Brightline Florida as far as P&L goes.
 
The Las Vegas BL station is in a mixed-use development area. The comprehensive Roaming Railfan flyover of the BL West route also shows how it's a best-case scenario for building in a highway median. The few highway exits are barely used, was the general impression. By contrast, RR's BL Florida videos included about a dozen substantial interchange bridges and tunnels, from I-95 to MCO airport.
 
So if Brightline Florida business plan is to make money on real estate sales along the line, what is the business plan for Brightline West between LV and RC?

we've got some Nice Desert Land to develop and to sell!😄
So, let's unpack this for a moment, actually. It won't be operational tomorrow or next week, but don't forget the SNSA project (the new Las Vegas airport). If I'm in Brightline West's shoes, I've got some plans in a filing cabinet not only to plop a station there (said airport would be like 38 miles from the Strip), and probably a hotel and some other stuff. That has room to be non-trivial in terms of an investment.
[I'm not sure about what they might do on the other side of the interstate, but they might be able to do a bit more there as well.]
 
Wasn’t aware of this project. Hope it does better than the stillborn new LA airport at Palmdale. (My family had invested in a 5 acre development plot across the highway from it).
 
This gets interesting. 10 trainsets are to be ordered. If they pick Siemens, two of the trainsets will be built in Germany, and the remaining 8 will be assembled in the US. If they go with Alstom, all 10 sets will be built at Alstom's manufacturing plant in Hornell.

https://www.railwayage.com/regulato...ica-requirements-for-brightline-west-project/
Interesting if they go Alstom, they will get a set similar to the Acela 2s. Would be simpler implementation on new right of way.
 
Always said I'll believe Brightline West is happening when it starts construction and not a moment before. Hopefully construction actually will begin soon.
 
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