Bus tituting

[Guest]

Different posts refer to the practice of Amtrak substituting buses for trains at certain times. While one would expect it in an unusual one-time situation, when should it be expected as a normal course of business?

One example seems to be that of the Sunset Limited between New Orleans and Florida.

Where (from what point to what point) across the entire Amtrak system are these other bus -in-lieu-of-train rides?

How long are these rides?

If you know you're going to be on a bus does it make sense to reserve sleeping quarters if you're all going like cattle, anyway?

Are there any bus rides from one section of a line to another? What comes to mind are the two north-south East coast trains. As they go across South Carolina are there points where a bus takes you east-west. Likewise, from Atlanta to Chicago thru New Orleans. Do you really HAVE to go to New Orleans or is there an Amtrak bus that shortcuts you across from the southbound Crescent to the northbound City of New Orleans?

I'm in the thinking stage of a 2008 long distance train trip.

 

[MrFSS]

Different posts refer to the practice of Amtrak substituting buses for trains at certain times. While one would expect it in an unusual one-time situation, when should it be expected as a normal course of business?
One example seems to be that of the Sunset Limited between New Orleans and Florida.

Where (from what point to what point) across the entire Amtrak system are these other bus -in-lieu-of-train rides?

How long are these rides?

If you know you're going to be on a bus does it make sense to reserve sleeping quarters if you're all going like cattle, anyway?

Are there any bus rides from one section of a line to another? What comes to mind are the two north-south East coast trains. As they go across South Carolina are there points where a bus takes you east-west. Likewise, from Atlanta to Chicago thru New Orleans. Do you really HAVE to go to New Orleans or is there an Amtrak bus that shortcuts you across from the southbound Crescent to the northbound City of New Orleans?

I'm in the thinking stage of a 2008 long distance train trip.

Amtrak uses buses in two main ways. One, if a train can't get passengers to their destination because of weather, mechanical problems, host railroad problems, etc, a bus may be used to complete the trip. However, sometimes they simply cancel everything on the route affected and no one goes anywhere by any means under the auspices of Amtrak.
Then, there are bus routes that are part of the system and run every day between various points, connecting with Amtrak trains through out the system. Get your hands on an Amtrak Schedule and you'll be able to see all the routes trains take and buses take. Also, they are shown on Amtrak's web site.

For instance, where I live in central KY there is no Amtrak. I can go to Louisville and catch the Amtrak bus which will take me to Indianapolis or even Chicago to catch a train in those locations. One uses an Amtrak ticket as if they were on a train and pays a set fee for the trip. Also, as I understand it, I can't book the trip on the bus without eventually connecting to a real train someplace. The only exception to this, someone correct me if I am wrong, is when you go to San Francisco. You have to get off the train in Emeryville and take a bus on into SF and that cost is zero and part of the train ticket from where ever you came from.

The buses one has to take because of non-scheduled delays and problems don't cost anything at all and they may even throw in a meal at a Burger King along the way. There are a number of different reasons you could end up on a bus without originally choosing to do so.

Hope this helps.

 

[battalion51]

Generally castastrophic incidents like derailments will caust bustitution. Sometimes it may be known ahead of time, sometimes it may not. If it's feasible Amtrak will attempt to reroute the train. For example if there is an accident on the A-Line in Florida, Amtrak can simply shift over to the S-Line, and only bus passengers at the effected stations, rather than all 200+ passengers. However instances are necessary evils, like when the NECR derailed at Palmer last week, cutting off the Vermonter in Brattleboro and Springfield with a bus bridge between the two sets of equipment. Sometimes you will know about these bus bridges ahead of time (like during the Auto Train wreck in 02), sometimes you won't (like the Vermonter last week).

 

[Superliner Diner]

I experienced a monumental bustitution some 9 years ago, courtesy of the eastbound Sunset Limited running 10 hours late. I was going from San Antonio to Jacksonville. Rather than having passengers wait that long, they had us take a bus all the way across Texas and Louisiana to New Orleans, where a make-up train and crew were assembled to run on time from there to Florida. The regular section of #2 terminated at NOL. (Ironically, the only train portion of that trip is no longer available.)

It was a horrible trip, as we came through Houston during its morning rush hour, and then hit New Orleans during its evening rush hour. The only thing that saved us in spots was being able to use the HOV lanes. But the bus we had was old and had airplane-like legroom, and there was only one driver all the way, who by the time we were in Louisiana was obviously fatigued and weaving along the road. He wisely made a few rest stops. I can say though that our meals were our own responsibility -- they stopped at a truck stop/convenience store type of place about halfway between SAS and HOS for breakfast, and a Luby's cafeteria in Beaumont, TX for lunch. Dinner was at NOUPT, where we had arrived well in advance of the train's scheduled arrival time.

In retrospect while the trip was uncomfortable and downright scary when the driver's eyes were closing, I'm glad Amtrak decided to send us by bus, because I would have lost a paid reservation I had at Jacksonville Beach for the next night since we would have come into town in the wee hours.

 

[had8ley]

One example seems to be that of the Sunset Limited between New Orleans and Florida.
Where (from what point to what point) across the entire Amtrak system are these other bus -in-lieu-of-train rides?

I'm in the thinking stage of a 2008 long distance train trip.

Please don't plan on going by Amtrak from New Orleans to Jacksonville either by train or bustitution. Amtrak conveniently forgot to put a bus in place of the NOL to Florida leg and even states so in the timetable. Terrible way to kill a train but they have been successful for over two years at not doing a thing about re-instituting service except to put out a pretty sorry PR excuse that there is no station in Mobile. I don't know if they laughed after they put that out or went into a closet and hid with a bag of Oreos and a gallon of milk. Anyway you look at it the Sunset is essentially a goner east of New Orleans; and that's seems to be the opinion of the majority of posters.

 

[daveyb99]

I have seen #21 terminated in FTW whenlate and passengers bussed south to remaining stations. Same for the northbounds, bussed to FTW to resume #22.

Those rides were likely 6-8 hours each after all the stops.

When the Sunset was late, I have heard of #422 passengers offloaded in ELP and bussed to FTW to resume the #422.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for all of your answers.

"Get your hands on an Amtrak Schedule and you'll be able to see all the routes trains take and buses take. Also, they are shown on Amtrak's web site."

I hope this doesn't sound wrong in print, but have you looked at the PDF and the interactive route map on the Amtrak website? I have and I still don't have a clear idea of when Greyhound takes over for Amtrak or a "Thru Bus" (or whatever they call it) applies (in normal situations). The map still shows a rail line between NOL and Florida. If someone has a link with the good information on it, would you please let me know? It would be nice to see a map that shows train routes in one color and bus colors (under the auspices of Amtrak) in another. There is a reference on the Amtrak site to their using Greyhound buses and the ability to purchase an Amtrak ticket (I guess where it uses Greyhound) through Greyhound.

 

[wayman]

I hope this doesn't sound wrong in print, but have you looked at the PDF and the interactive route map on the Amtrak website? I have and I still don't have a clear idea of when Greyhound takes over for Amtrak or a "Thru Bus" (or whatever they call it) applies (in normal situations).
It would be nice to see a map that shows train routes in one color and bus colors (under the auspices of Amtrak) in another.

... both of those maps have rail lines in red and bus lines in green. Poorly-designed for those with red-green colorblindness, but the rail and bus lines are in distinct colors.

The map still shows a rail line between NOL and Florida.

It's a long story which has been discussed in detail elsewhere here, but the short short version is, there's no currently operational passenger rail service between NOL and Florida, there's no telling when or if service will be reinstated, but Amtrak--even if they fully intend never to restore service here--can't just take it off the map without jumping through a lot of political hoops. Technically, service is "temporarily interrupted" or some such, and has been since 2005. I think this is a unique case, and that the rest of the map is correct (where it shows rail service, there is rail service).

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Two years of temporary suspension isn't anywhere near as bad as the MBTA's temporary suspension of streetcar service from Heath Street to Arborway on the E branch of the Green Line since 1985, which is still an ongoing suspension of service.

 

[the_traveler]

Likewise, from Atlanta to Chicago thru New Orleans. Do you really HAVE to go to New Orleans or is there an Amtrak bus that shortcuts you across from the southbound Crescent to the northbound City of New Orleans?
I'm in the thinking stage of a 2008 long distance train trip.

NO and NO!

You have 2 choices to go from ATL to CHI. Depending on your wishes, you could go ATL-NOL on the southbound Crescent, overnight in NOL (at your expense), and then go northbound on the CONO to CHI. Or if you want an all-rail trip, you can either go ATL-WAS on the Northbound Crescent and then westbound WAS-CHI on the CL. Or northbound ATL-CVS and westbound CVS-CHI on the Cardinal. (The res system will offer the last 2 choices - if it's the days the Cardinal operates.)

 

[had8ley]

I hope this doesn't sound wrong in print, but have you looked at the PDF and the interactive route map on the Amtrak website? I have and I still don't have a clear idea of when Greyhound takes over for Amtrak or a "Thru Bus" (or whatever they call it) applies (in normal situations).
It would be nice to see a map that shows train routes in one color and bus colors (under the auspices of Amtrak) in another.

... both of those maps have rail lines in red and bus lines in green. Poorly-designed for those with red-green colorblindness, but the rail and bus lines are in distinct colors.

The map still shows a rail line between NOL and Florida.

It's a long story which has been discussed in detail elsewhere here, but the short short version is, there's no currently operational passenger rail service between NOL and Florida, there's no telling when or if service will be reinstated, but Amtrak--even if they fully intend never to restore service here--can't just take it off the map without jumping through a lot of political hoops. Technically, service is "temporarily interrupted" or some such, and has been since 2005. I think this is a unique case, and that the rest of the map is correct (where it shows rail service, there is rail service).

An even shorter version would be this is managements way of CYA.

 

[Guest]

Had8ley,

I see a green (bus) route originating in Baton Rouge on the interactive map on Amtrak's site and that BR is your locale. Does that translate to your riding a thru bus every time you want to ride Amtrak?

 

[TALKrr]

The longest "bustitution" I had to suffer was during my first Amtrak long distance trip---back in 1990.

I was on the Sunset heading east from New Orleans to Jacksonville. There I was to connect to a Silver Service train north to Philadelphia---I believe it was the Meteor. Well, the Sunset was running hours late and there was no way northbouhnd Meteor passengers could make the connection at Jacksonville , so we were detrained at Tallahassee , Florida and bused to Savanna, Georgia to make it.

When I boarded the bus I failed to ask exactly how long of a bus ride this would be. It turned out to be a trip of over NINE hours !!!

I must say , my most "unique" opportunity to make a connection afforded by Amtrak came in the year 2000. I was heading east from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia on the Pennsylvanian. There I was to make a connection to the southbound Meteor for a trip to Florida. Again, the Pennsylvanian was running late and thus passengers on this train would not be able to make the Philly connection , south.

I was one of seven passengers who had to make the connection to train #97 at Philly. Well, all seven of us were TAXIED from Harrisburg, PA to DC to make the connection !!! Two cabs were needed. I can only imagine Amtrak's expense related to THAT transfer.

To make matters worse, my cab had an Indian (native to India) driver who talked (in Indian) the ENTIRE TRIP on his cell phone with somebody. He also )evidently) tried to set a new land speed record for the trip between the two cities !! What a ride---yikes !!

We did make the connection to the Meteor , but just barely. If I know my geography, the trip covered a distance of over 100 miles---probably more. I'm glad I did not have to pay the taxi bill !!

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

However, sometimes they simply cancel everything on the route affected and no one goes anywhere by any means under the auspices of Amtrak.

When this happens, what practical options do passengers typically have for getting to their destinations? Does waiting a few days for Amtrak to resume service tend to work? Does Amtrak ever leave people in the middle of nowhere when this happens?

 

[had8ley]

Had8ley,I see a green (bus) route originating in Baton Rouge on the interactive map on Amtrak's site and that BR is your locale. Does that translate to your riding a thru bus every time you want to ride Amtrak?

Actually they do show a bustitution from Baton Rouge to make connections in New Orleans via Thruway connections. Although I have never ridden on it the Greyhound bus line and Amtrak share the same facility (Union Station) in New Orleans. I do believe you can buy a through ticket to/from Baton Rouge. The bus station in Baton Rouge is near downtown but I wouldn't want to have to be there after dark. NOUPT was built in 1954 and has seen better days. When I ride to Chicago I have a fifteen minute drive from my home to Hammond. There used to be a limousine service some years ago from the Capital House in Baton Rouge to Hammond but it faded away for lack of ridership. For the Crescent I drive to Slidell, LA and the Sunset I try to board in Lafayette, LA

In my previous posts I have indicated that not all is well in New Orleans but I have fallen silent since many other posters seem to think that just because some of the tourists meccas are safe that it equates to a safe city. It is still the "Murder Capital of the USA."

My suggestion would be to rent a car in New Orleans if you wanted to see the capital as public transportation in Baton Rouge is spartan at best.

 

[had8ley]

However, sometimes they simply cancel everything on the route affected and no one goes anywhere by any means under the auspices of Amtrak.

When this happens, what practical options do passengers typically have for getting to their destinations? Does waiting a few days for Amtrak to resume service tend to work? Does Amtrak ever leave people in the middle of nowhere when this happens?

Well it really depends on where you are and where you are going. I've pooled with other pax in renting a car in Alpine, TX. If you are in a major city I would head to the airport. Waiting on Amtrak can be frustrating even when the train is running let alone trying to second guess a re-start of service. I know they are very cautious when hurricanes hit Florida and either annull totally or terminate Silver Service in Savannah or Jacksonville. Does Amtrak leave people in the middle of no where?~ you betcha; and that's why it pays to have an alternate plan of travel. Even a mule starts looking attractive after you've stood on the station platform for hours on end.

 

[colobok]

What I don't understand - why some bus routes are free (like Emeryville to SF or Tampa to Orlando),

some - not.

If they can do free transfers to SF - why don't they do free bus transfer from Orlando to Disney World? It's the same distance as Emeryville to SF and it could attract a lot of tourists.

 

[George Harris]

Do you really HAVE to go to New Orleans or is there an Amtrak bus that shortcuts you across from the southbound Crescent to the northbound City of New Orleans?

Check greyhound for either Atlanta to Memphis or Birmingham to Memphis. At one time it was even possible to do Meridian MS to Jackson MS, but last time I looked that one no longer worked. Be warned: you do want to take a taxi from Memphis Greyhound to Memphis Amtrak. It is about a mile, but at the late evening time you would be doing it, your body might not ever be found if you chose to walk.

 

[battalion51]

What I don't understand - why some bus routes are free (like Emeryville to SF or Tampa to Orlando),some - not.

If they can do free transfers to SF - why don't they do free bus transfer from Orlando to Disney World? It's the same distance as Emeryville to SF and it could attract a lot of tourists.

It's mostly to encourage business that wouldn't be there otherwise. People are going to use the train to get to Orlando and Disney either way, it's not like having a bus connection changes things. It's also a matter of having the authority to do it. The only group that has authority to have publicly scheduled trips in Guest areas on Disney property is Mears. Amtrak and Mears haven't struck an accord to provide service, so no service.

 

[AlanB]

What I don't understand - why some bus routes are free (like Emeryville to SF or Tampa to Orlando),some - not.

If they can do free transfers to SF - why don't they do free bus transfer from Orlando to Disney World? It's the same distance as Emeryville to SF and it could attract a lot of tourists.

It's mostly to encourage business that wouldn't be there otherwise. People are going to use the train to get to Orlando and Disney either way, it's not like having a bus connection changes things. It's also a matter of having the authority to do it. The only group that has authority to have publicly scheduled trips in Guest areas on Disney property is Mears. Amtrak and Mears haven't struck an accord to provide service, so no service.

Actually for a few years Amtrak did have an agreement in place with Coach USA to run a bus from the Orlando train station to the Disney hotels. It wasn't free, I seem to think that it cost about $24 or so. And it wasn't considered a Thruway connection, like the other buses. I'm not sure if Coach gave up on things or if Amtrak did, but I don't think that it was that heavily patronized.

As for why Amtrak doesn't offer a free bus from Orlando to Disney, one major reason is that the nature of the beast is vastly different in the Disney area compared to San Fran. By that I mean, the Amtrak bus in San Fran only makes like 5 or 6 stops, most of which connect with other forms of transportation be it MUNI, Cal Train, or BART. After that it's up to the traveler to get to his or her hotel or ulitimate desination.

In the case of Disney, outside of Disney property there is limited public transportation and therefore nothing to connect to, and therefore most people would want to be taken directly to their hotels. That could mean 2 dozen or more stops for the bus.

Finally and perhaps most important, especially with regard to the "free" Thruway connections in California, the State of California helps to fund those connections. At least AFAIK, the State of Florida has never offered to fund any connections in Florida.

 

[had8ley]

What I don't understand - why some bus routes are free (like Emeryville to SF or Tampa to Orlando),some - not.

If they can do free transfers to SF - why don't they do free bus transfer from Orlando to Disney World? It's the same distance as Emeryville to SF and it could attract a lot of tourists.

It's mostly to encourage business that wouldn't be there otherwise. People are going to use the train to get to Orlando and Disney either way, it's not like having a bus connection changes things. It's also a matter of having the authority to do it. The only group that has authority to have publicly scheduled trips in Guest areas on Disney property is Mears. Amtrak and Mears haven't struck an accord to provide service, so no service.

Actually for a few years Amtrak did have an agreement in place with Coach USA to run a bus from the Orlando train station to the Disney hotels. It wasn't free, I seem to think that it cost about $24 or so. And it wasn't considered a Thruway connection, like the other buses. I'm not sure if Coach gave up on things or if Amtrak did, but I don't think that it was that heavily patronized.

As for why Amtrak doesn't offer a free bus from Orlando to Disney, one major reason is that the nature of the beast is vastly different in the Disney area compared to San Fran. By that I mean, the Amtrak bus in San Fran only makes like 5 or 6 stops, most of which connect with other forms of transportation be it MUNI, Cal Train, or BART. After that it's up to the traveler to get to his or her hotel or ulitimate desination.

In the case of Disney, outside of Disney property there is limited public transportation and therefore nothing to connect to, and therefore most people would want to be taken directly to their hotels. That could mean 2 dozen or more stops for the bus.

Finally and perhaps most important, especially with regard to the "free" Thruway connections in California, the State of California helps to fund those connections. At least AFAIK, the State of Florida has never offered to fund any connections in Florida.

Just a footnote for those that don't know; Disney World is quite some distance from the Orlando train station. The station is in town and Disney is some miles southwest of Orlando.

 

[battalion51]

Again another good point. The Kissimmee station is much closer to Disney, and even it's not right around the corner. Kissimmee is way the heck down 192 from property, and is about a 15-20 minute drive depending on traffic and where you're trying to get on property. Orlando on the other hand is adjacent to I-4, so with no traffic it's also 15-20 minutes. If you're taking a Cab KIS is the way to go. But time wise they're about the same distance.

 

[had8ley]

Again another good point. The Kissimmee station is much closer to Disney, and even it's not right around the corner. Kissimmee is way the heck down 192 from property, and is about a 15-20 minute drive depending on traffic and where you're trying to get on property. Orlando on the other hand is adjacent to I-4, so with no traffic it's also 15-20 minutes. If you're taking a Cab KIS is the way to go. But time wise they're about the same distance.

Is I-4 the toll road?

 

[AlanB]

Again another good point. The Kissimmee station is much closer to Disney, and even it's not right around the corner. Kissimmee is way the heck down 192 from property, and is about a 15-20 minute drive depending on traffic and where you're trying to get on property. Orlando on the other hand is adjacent to I-4, so with no traffic it's also 15-20 minutes. If you're taking a Cab KIS is the way to go. But time wise they're about the same distance.

Is I-4 the toll road?

No, I-4 is a free highway. Free at least in terms of money. It's hardly ever free of traffic. :lol:

 

[battalion51]

Again another good point. The Kissimmee station is much closer to Disney, and even it's not right around the corner. Kissimmee is way the heck down 192 from property, and is about a 15-20 minute drive depending on traffic and where you're trying to get on property. Orlando on the other hand is adjacent to I-4, so with no traffic it's also 15-20 minutes. If you're taking a Cab KIS is the way to go. But time wise they're about the same distance.

Is I-4 the toll road?

Toll Roads in Orlando include 417 (The Greenway), 429, 408 (East-West Expressway), 528 (Bee Line or Beach Line), and The Turnpike.