Caltrans New Bi-Lievel Designs
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Nexis4Jersey
Service Attendant
Are these for the New EMU rail cars?
RTOlson
Lead Service Attendant
Why was this moved? Caltrans is heavily involved with Amtrak via its role in Amtrak California. On the other hand, these cars are intended to be the platform of a national bilevel car design providing some savings to states who participate in the program (and Amtrak, if it were to participate in the program).
These are not EMC rail car designs, as far as I know. They are proposed as the next step in the evolution of the California Car design.
These are not EMC rail car designs, as far as I know. They are proposed as the next step in the evolution of the California Car design.
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I think that the mod who moved it was thinking Caltrain, the commuter service between San Fran and San Jose, not Caltrans which runs the Surfliners, Capitol Corridor, and the San Joaquin's.
RTOlson
Lead Service Attendant
Thanks, Alan. That explanation makes sense (especially when I mistype the two myself every now and then).
Roadfool
Train Attendant
Dang, wish I'd known where they were holding that Fresno open house. I was actually at the Amtrak station between 4-8 pm today, but they must've had it in one of the govt. buildings around there (didn't see any signs mentioning it in the station).
And I love those new cars. Looks like a spiffed-up version of the SJ I'm on so frequently. Obviously I'm biased, but I think it's a great idea to use the California trains as an example for the rest of the country. We may screw up just about everything else, but our train system is cheap, reliable, and popular (2nd, 3rd, and 5th busiest routes in the nation). I never hear "nobody rides trains" from people around here.
And I love those new cars. Looks like a spiffed-up version of the SJ I'm on so frequently. Obviously I'm biased, but I think it's a great idea to use the California trains as an example for the rest of the country. We may screw up just about everything else, but our train system is cheap, reliable, and popular (2nd, 3rd, and 5th busiest routes in the nation). I never hear "nobody rides trains" from people around here.
It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but also please remember that these are renderings, not the actual drawings. Caltans will release the actuals at the end of the month according to the article.
George Harris
Engineer
And it is no accident. If what I have heard sitting behind the operating cab of the soutbound San Joaquins is any example, the operation is getting enthusiastic cooperation from the railroad dispatchers, those running on BNSF, at least. Listening to the conversation you would think they are clearing for the Super Chief. I can think of only one most minimal delay by a freight train on the BNSF part. In fact, most riders don't seem to realize that the line is mostly single track. I also once heard an announcement from a conductor as we were stopped on a northbound, that we are being held here because this is where we change from BNSF to UP tracks.
G
guest not just the SJs
Guest
It's not just the SJs that BSNF is helping to keep on time (or even ahead of schedule).
I rode the SWC two weeks ago from Chicago to LA and not ONCE did we stop for a freight to clear. NOT once! I asked the SCA how unusual that was, and he said it was increasingly the norm on the route. Such a shame that UP can't even try, or doesn't even want to try, to help Amtrak improve.
printman2000
Engineer
Did anyone notice the airline style overhead luggage bins? I think that is a horrible idea. Especially on commuter type equipment.
I think the existing California cars have bins instead of overhead racks. I certainly hope they dump the bins. Riding a California train (or an Acela train), and hearing those bins open and close every 10-15 minutes as people board/alight drives me nuts.
I also hope they dump that horrible seating and go with something like what the Surfliners have.
I also hope they dump that horrible seating and go with something like what the Surfliners have.
printman2000
Engineer
The Surfliners, at least the ones I have been on, had open racks.
DowneasterPassenger
Lead Service Attendant
My subjective experience of riding the San Joaquin twice a week is that the on-time performance has improved greatly over the last 2 or 3 years. Increasingly the northbound 711 arrives early in Stockton and Antioch, allowing for extended "smoke breaks".
There is a point near Martinez where sometimes the conductor announces a brief delay when the train transitions from BNSF to UP. But lately that transition has been smoother, without any delay or stop.
The only significant delays I can recall in the last year or so were due to track work, not freight trains.
There is a point near Martinez where sometimes the conductor announces a brief delay when the train transitions from BNSF to UP. But lately that transition has been smoother, without any delay or stop.
The only significant delays I can recall in the last year or so were due to track work, not freight trains.
Yes, Surfliner equipment has open racks, as of course do the Amfleets in the usual 799/798/792 consist. I too think bins would be a bad idea. The SJs have bins, huh? Only ridden once, and don't recall noticing. Mr. Observant! <_<
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A
Asst Conductor OKJ
Guest
yes I myself have been amazed by the OTP of the trains recently. I am also hoping to see Caltrans ditch the Overhead bins in favor of the racks that are seen on the Surfliner/Superliner equipment. The bins are simply to small to be of any use with the storage of the carry-on baggage commonly seen on Amtrak trains. Honestly the top three priorities I can think of are Doors, PA Systems that work, and usable storage areas. Hope that we (you, myself and other co-workers) can convince Caltrans of the same. Be sure to put in your comments on the Open House website starting tomarrow.
Cristobal
Lead Service Attendant
I've seen both types on the CC trains that I've ridden so there seems to be a mix of car styles up here. While I haven't had a need for overhead storage (yet
) I do agree that the enclosed bins do look considerably smaller and are probably a bit more difficult to stash a bag into. They do give the car interior a 'cleaner' look but that is hardly justification for the lack of practicality.MattW
Conductor
Yes, and the insta-porn machines do enhance safety in the air, it's just a question of how much in relation to convenience and privacy. Has there been cases of projectiles hurting people flying from the luggage racks before? Does the potential benefit outweigh the loss of convenience?
Fast cars can kill, but millions of people drive each day without incident, and even more without major incident. But should we drop the speedlimit to 20mph just because it's potentially safer? Millions of passengers travel the rails with open luggage racks and they don't get hurt by carryon projectiles. So should we go to these sealed compartments?
Fast cars can kill, but millions of people drive each day without incident, and even more without major incident. But should we drop the speedlimit to 20mph just because it's potentially safer? Millions of passengers travel the rails with open luggage racks and they don't get hurt by carryon projectiles. So should we go to these sealed compartments?
goodnightjohnwayne
Train Attendant
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Airliner style overhead bins are indeed ridiculous for any sort of passenger train - and a tremendous inconvenience as well. Why sacrifice space and utility in a silly attempt to simulate airline travel? I could apply the same comments to the Acela and VIA Rail LRC coaches as well!
Personally, I actually enjoy the space and utility of the overhead baggage racks in Amtrak's single level coaches.
I can't speak to the California cars that have overhead bins, but on Acela there is really little loss of space compared to the open style rack. It may look smaller, but those bins are huge and every bit as capable of holding luggage as the rack style.
And while I'm not aware of any projectile luggage situations on Amtrak, I can see where it could happen in a sudden stop. I have however seen luggage bounced out of a luggage rack and onto someone as a train bounced over an interlocking. The luggage bins solve that problem and definitely in that regard a good safety feature.
The biggest problem that I see with the bins on Acela is that people are lazy and refuse to close them when they are done loading/unloading their bags. This represents a safety hazard in its own right, as people over 6'2" can accidentally walk into the sharp corners.
And while I'm not aware of any projectile luggage situations on Amtrak, I can see where it could happen in a sudden stop. I have however seen luggage bounced out of a luggage rack and onto someone as a train bounced over an interlocking. The luggage bins solve that problem and definitely in that regard a good safety feature.
The biggest problem that I see with the bins on Acela is that people are lazy and refuse to close them when they are done loading/unloading their bags. This represents a safety hazard in its own right, as people over 6'2" can accidentally walk into the sharp corners.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
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Gathering Team Member
Flying baggage was a serious enough issue in the Chase crash that caused FRA to mandate the dividers in the luggage racks to give luggage less freedom of movement to fly off. They actually wanted bins back then but retrofitting all cars was deemed impractical. So when Tier II came by, they insisted, though I don't know whether it is written as a regulation in a CFR that makes them mandatory. In any case it will probably be a battle getting approval for a Tier II car with open racks. But then you never know, things could change too.
I don't know what the loss of convenience exactly is at least in the case of Acelas. You can fit a fat suitcase in the Acela luggage racks that will not fit in an Amfleet I luggage rack. I agree that they could improve the latches so that they are not as noisy as they are, but that is relatively easy to fix.
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Green Maned Lion
Engineer
You know, I think we've become a country of mice. We shield our selves from every possible danger, even if it means losing tons of utility. When I was growing up, I remember my dad going to work every single day- even in relatively bad snow.
I remember heavy traffic on the Garden State as many front-heavy, rear-wheel drive, cars battled the snow and ice to get to work.
And now? Now, on such snow days, I see lots of 4WD cars and trucks sitting in peoples driveways... going nowhere. And an empty parkway. State of Emergancy for... 6 inches of snow? Dear lord, would our mice please drop their whiskers, big ears, and tail and go back to being men?
I remember heavy traffic on the Garden State as many front-heavy, rear-wheel drive, cars battled the snow and ice to get to work.
And now? Now, on such snow days, I see lots of 4WD cars and trucks sitting in peoples driveways... going nowhere. And an empty parkway. State of Emergancy for... 6 inches of snow? Dear lord, would our mice please drop their whiskers, big ears, and tail and go back to being men?
The issue here is whether safety should trump convenience. If one stays home when road conditions are bad (even if his or her car can handle the roads), he/she is doing what is convenient and what is believed to be safe. I don't see how yours is an adequate analogy to the issue of luggage bins/racks.
At least in this case regarding the Acela, there is no loss of utility. So therefore there is no reason not to protect people from harm if it's at all possible.
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