Cancelations / mid-Atlantic storm

[AlanB]

Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:

CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 8 Winter Weather and Derailment Update

CSX train and yard operations throughout the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic are being affected by the severe winter weather that the area has experienced over the last several days. Another storm system is moving into the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic later this week, bringing more snow and high winds to these areas. Trains are being held throughout the Northeast, including the Baltimore Division where only critical service is being provided due to the heavy accumulations of snow and unsafe conditions.

Customers with traffic moving throughout the Northern, Mid-Atlantic and Appalachian regions should expect delays of at least 24 to 48 hours.

Adding to the difficulty in the Northeast, a train derailment on Saturday morning near Cumberland, Md., has forced the reroute of trains around that area. We expect to have the tracks operational within the next 36 hours. Customers with traffic moving between the Midwest and the Mid-Atlantic states of Maryland and Pennsylvania are advised to expect additional delays throughout the week due to the congestion resulting from these re-routes and the adverse weather conditions.

CSX continues to monitor these situations and will provide further updates.

I personally have had significant issues with what is, to me, an unprecedented amount of snow, sleet and ice, especially for a usually benign state when it comes to winter weather.

Someone please make it stop! :angry:

Thank you for this update from CSX. I am hoping to go on 30 on 2/11 to Washington, D.C. From this it looks like the line will be open sometime on Wednesday. So if I see the Capitols running on Wednesday, then I have a good chance for Thursday.

Well they may have the derailment issues fixed by Wednesday. The snow issues however are another matter. If indeed forecasts hold and the DC area and western PA, and much of Virginia see another foot of snow on top of what's already on the ground, then all bets are off.

Not sure I'd bail yet, but your trip is definately looking dicey at the moment. Unfortunately.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.

Oh, I don't think I'd be so quick to say airlines are so much better. I was supposed to travel to a meeting over the weekend in Washington DC, and flights started getting cancelled on Friday morning before the storm. Ground transportation for those who did make it into the city before the storm basically shut down Saturday, all Government offices were closed today, and supposedly most of the streets were impassible. I decided to stay home and finish some home projects, which in retrospect looks pretty smart right now. I think sometimes it's better to cancel trains and read a few articles about cancellations than have a media extravaganza discussing trains frozen in the ice, derailed, etc.

We're buckling down for some snow here in Chicago, a lot over the next two days, but not blizzard conditions. Southwest Airlines has already canceled all flights out of Midway from 10 a.m. today to 10 a.m. tomorrow. As far as I know, Amtrak will run its regular schedule. Snow is one thing,but the blizzard conditions faced by areas that don't usually get that much snow is another.

 

[henryj]

Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.

Never in recorded history has Philadelphia received so much snow in a winter, as of this Wednesday. (We only need a few more inches to break the seasonal record, and we're supposed to get over a foot on top of what we've still got on the ground.)

Wayman, if your in Philadelphia, just curious. How has the light rail system done? How about the old Red Arrow lines to Media, Sharon Hill and Norristown? Are the suburban lines running? How about the trolley buses, the Frankford El? I have been to Philladelphia a few times and always enjoyed the variety there. Just wondering how they are coping.

 

[henryj]

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

 

[haolerider]

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

See weather reports and forecast for today! <_<

 

[Ryan]

VRE has no service for today and the Auto Train is on the list, so I suspect that there are still problems getting things moving on the RF&P. As haolrider alluded to, it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

 

[jis]

VRE has no service for today and the Auto Train is on the list, so I suspect that there are still problems getting things moving on the RF&P. As haolrider alluded to, it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

Some combination of snow and ice is supposed to start falling in the Richmond area by 1pm and head north towards Washington DC. That should bring some more trees down inevitably. So no wonder RF&P is not going to be carrying too much traffic today.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.

When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.

 

[Amtrak839]

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

The RF&P Subdivision is in very bad shape, and it's going to get worse later today.

Edit: Read on another forum that P098-05, P092-05, and P052-05 are all sitting stranded at RVR. Nothing is moving on the RF&P.

 

[henryj]

Here is Amtrak's report for today(Please don't take this as an anti-Amtrak 'rant' as I am in Houston where it never snows and this whole thing is just fascinating to me). Wish I could see all this, but just for a visit, I don't want to live in it. Post some pics if you can. I saw some of Ryan's and they are really interesting. Lots of cancellations:

Amtrak to Offer Limited Acela Express and Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 9

February 8, 2010

10:00 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Amtrak will operate limited Acela Express and Northeast Regional service between New York and Washington on Tuesday, February 9, as the Northeast continues to recover from the effects from this weekend’s severe winter weather conditions.

The massive storm has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of CSX freight railroad tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the Mid-Atlantic region, and has caused the cancelation of several trains for February 9.

The following trains are canceled for Tuesday, February 9:

Acela Express: Trains 2103, 2109, 2153, 2117, 2165, 2119, 2173, 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2126 are all canceled in their entirety between Boston and Washington. Train 2150 is canceled Washington to New York only.

Northbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 66 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 84 is canceled Richmond to New York

• Train 86 is canceled Richmond to Washington

• Train 94 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 110 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 130 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 184 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 186 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 188 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 196 is canceled Washington to New York

Southbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 67 is canceled Washington to Newport News

• Trains 93 and 95 will terminate in Washington

• Train 151 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 181 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 193 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 187 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 125 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 127 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 85 is canceled New York to Richmond|

Northeast Regional train 176 will operate Lynchburg to Washington and onto Boston and train 171 will operate through to Lynchburg.

Capitol Limited: Trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago) are canceled with no alternate transportation. Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.) are canceled in their entirety. Silver Service: Trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only. Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah) are canceled in their entirety. Carolinian: Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Raleigh and Charlotte only. Cardinal Service: (New York - Chicago) Train 50 is canceled between Huntington, WV, and New York. All other Amtrak services, including the Piedmont, trains 73 and 74 (Raleigh – Charlotte) and the Crescent, trains 19 and 20 (New York – Atlanta) are expected to operate normally.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

 

[jis]

I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.
When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.

Yup. As long as L'Enfant to AF interlocking is passable, Crescent can get onto NS trackage and then assuming NS is running OK it can get through to the south. All the problems on RF&P appear to be south of AF including stalled freights and such. There are also not that many trees to fall on the tracks between L'Enfant and AF. I wonder why trees keep falling on CSX and not so much on NS though

 

[girly25]

train 20 is making good time into nyp today!

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.

When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.

 

[haolerider]

train 20 is making good time into nyp today!

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.

When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.

train 19 is showing 4+ hours late into ATL.

 

[rayc]

i am taking the silver metor out of nyp to orl sat 2-13 . what is the best way check status of train schedule? right now i am getting my back plan into action.does anyone think that train will run

 

[girly25]

they just made it to atlanta. we taking their train and going back to nyp tonight . they going in van and heading to new orleans tonight. they got loong trip . i feel kinda bad for crew that left thurs on 89. it long 5 days !

train 20 is making good time into nyp today!

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.

I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.

When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.

train 19 is showing 4+ hours late into ATL.

 

[bigrxrblues]

So are any trains running at all between DC and Richmond, or is everything canceled?

 

[Ryan]

Everything is cancelled - nothing is moving on the RF&P.

 

[wayman]

Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.

Never in recorded history has Philadelphia received so much snow in a winter, as of this Wednesday. (We only need a few more inches to break the seasonal record, and we're supposed to get over a foot on top of what we've still got on the ground.)

Wayman, if your in Philadelphia, just curious. How has the light rail system done? How about the old Red Arrow lines to Media, Sharon Hill and Norristown? Are the suburban lines running? How about the trolley buses, the Frankford El? I have been to Philladelphia a few times and always enjoyed the variety there. Just wondering how they are coping.

SEPTA announced very early Saturday morning that all service would stop at 2pm Saturday except for the MFL and Broad St Line subway/els. This was announced very well, way in advance, to prevent folks from getting stranded -- don't take a train into the city thinking you'll be able to leave in the evening; don't go stand at a bus shelter at 2pm because nothing will come; etc. Vehicles could be stored in safe positions for Sunday morning service between the shutdown and the onset of the storm and crews and operators could all get safely home.

Overnight, the MFL and Broad St Line kept running as trains (they have been bustituted between midnight and 5am for years).

Sunday morning, first thing, everything was up and running again. The Red Arrow trolleys were only running hourly service, and the Norristown line may have done likewise, at least for Sunday morning, but I think by Sunday afternoon they were at full service.

All in all, SEPTA did a great job last weekend.

 

[rrdude]

Here is Amtrak's report for today(Please don't take this as an anti-Amtrak 'rant' as I am in Houston where it never snows and this whole thing is just fascinating to me). Wish I could see all this, but just for a visit, I don't want to live in it. Post some pics if you can. I saw some of Ryan's and they are really interesting. Lots of cancellations:
Amtrak to Offer Limited Acela Express and Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 9

February 8, 2010

10:00 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Amtrak will operate limited Acela Express and Northeast Regional service between New York and Washington on Tuesday, February 9, as the Northeast continues to recover from the effects from this weekend’s severe winter weather conditions.

The massive storm has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of CSX freight railroad tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the Mid-Atlantic region, and has caused the cancelation of several trains for February 9.

The following trains are canceled for Tuesday, February 9:

Acela Express: Trains 2103, 2109, 2153, 2117, 2165, 2119, 2173, 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2126 are all canceled in their entirety between Boston and Washington. Train 2150 is canceled Washington to New York only.

Northbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 66 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 84 is canceled Richmond to New York

• Train 86 is canceled Richmond to Washington

• Train 94 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 110 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 130 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 184 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 186 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 188 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 196 is canceled Washington to New York

Southbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 67 is canceled Washington to Newport News

• Trains 93 and 95 will terminate in Washington

• Train 151 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 181 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 193 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 187 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 125 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 127 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 85 is canceled New York to Richmond|

Northeast Regional train 176 will operate Lynchburg to Washington and onto Boston and train 171 will operate through to Lynchburg.

Capitol Limited: Trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago) are canceled with no alternate transportation. Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.) are canceled in their entirety. Silver Service: Trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only. Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah) are canceled in their entirety. Carolinian: Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Raleigh and Charlotte only. Cardinal Service: (New York - Chicago) Train 50 is canceled between Huntington, WV, and New York. All other Amtrak services, including the Piedmont, trains 73 and 74 (Raleigh – Charlotte) and the Crescent, trains 19 and 20 (New York – Atlanta) are expected to operate normally.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

Well, I sure as Hell don't EVER want to see Amtrak advertising the "all-weather-mode" of transportation again. I *KNOW* they are at the mercy of the host railroads. But it just pisses me off that what they could do 40-50 years ago, now WON'T be done. Notice I didn't type "can't" I typed "won't".

Anyone who argues otherwise, is giving in to political correctness, and the law-suit happy lawyers, or should I say the "Afraid of a lawsuit" suits at the corporate transportation companies.

When NO OTHER mode of transportation is available, and the trains remain in the station, what good are the trains? NONE!

I don't care if you run 24 hours late, and "proceed with caution" to every block signal. Give the train crew a chain saw, or have a work gang deadhead on the train.

Embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing................

So WHAT if a train get's stuck along the line. I've been stuck in a derailment. I've been stuck BEcause of derailments ahead. And I've been stuck because of trees down.

"Better not to go at all.." HOG WASH. Suits have lost their backbone.

Unless you know the ROW *is* washed out, or the bridge *is* down, run the damn trains............

 

[rrdude]

a complete shutdown like this.

You keep saying this, despite it being demonstrably false. I rode on the NEC yesterday. I'm on it right now.
Acelafan, that article must be getting around, we're leaving Newark Airport right now, and the train got completely slammed - I don't think that there's a single seat left.

Then Ryan, I stand corrected as regards the NEC and I appologize. Actually I am glad to hear the NEC is working. That alone is encouraging.

From all that I heard, the storm that hit the Mid Atlantic states was one of the worst that was recorded in modern times. I think we need to give the railroads including CSX and Amtrak a break here. Trees and power lines were downed by the heavy snowfall and wind. In addition, this area is not prepared for snowfall in the area of 2-3 feet. The fact that Amtrak was able to resume service in such a short time was commendable. Trying to run trains through these conditions in this part of the country would have been unsafe, unethical and bordering on the insane. Stranding passengers in the middle of nowhere for days on end is not a way to run a railroad just to try to prove a point. The Seaboard, ACL and PRR I don't think ever faced these conditions in these areas based on weather stats. I love rails as much as anyone and trains can continue in many instances when autos and planes cannot. That said, we all have to appreciate the power that the earth's weather can dish out.

Stephen D Lipman, D.M.D.

Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.

BS, BS, BS...............

 

[rrdude]

Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:

CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 8 Winter Weather and Derailment Update

CSX train and yard operations throughout the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic are being affected by the severe winter weather that the area has experienced over the last several days. Another storm system is moving into the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic later this week, bringing more snow and high winds to these areas. Trains are being held throughout the Northeast, including the Baltimore Division where only critical service is being provided due to the heavy accumulations of snow and unsafe conditions.

Customers with traffic moving throughout the Northern, Mid-Atlantic and Appalachian regions should expect delays of at least 24 to 48 hours.

Adding to the difficulty in the Northeast, a train derailment on Saturday morning near Cumberland, Md., has forced the reroute of trains around that area. We expect to have the tracks operational within the next 36 hours. Customers with traffic moving between the Midwest and the Mid-Atlantic states of Maryland and Pennsylvania are advised to expect additional delays throughout the week due to the congestion resulting from these re-routes and the adverse weather conditions.

CSX continues to monitor these situations and will provide further updates.

I personally have had significant issues with what is, to me, an unprecedented amount of snow, sleet and ice, especially for a usually benign state when it comes to winter weather.

Someone please make it stop! :angry:

Yeah, and if you don't run trains during the storm, (helping keep the line clear) it gets EVEN harder to clear the line later........

 

[AAARGH!]

Unless you know the ROW *is* washed out, or the bridge *is* down, run the damn trains............

I wonder if these storms had occurred back in the day, would the trains have run? I see these storms as being unprecedented. There is a point at which you stop running trains.

Cars used not to have seatbelts. Medical quackery went unchecked. We learn form the past. What might have passed as safe in the past we now know isn't at all. Am I saying that running trains in these storms is unsafe or that trains of the past were unsafe in these conditions? I don't have the experience to say. However, I do defer to those who are experts.

Whether we like it or not, this is a litigious society. If Amtrak runs trains that get stuck for 24 hours, they will get sued. It's too bad, but let's not hold that against Amtrak.

Embarassing? I think not. Prudent? Probably so. In the end, the reasonable answer lies somewhere in between, but much closer to prudent than you would like or think.

 

[Ryan]

Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.
BS, BS, BS...............

The railroads didn't have to push through this amount of snow, either. What part of "record snowfall" is unclear?

Yeah, and if you don't run trains during the storm, (helping keep the line clear) it gets EVEN harder to clear the line later........

Amtrak is running some trains on the NEC, just not all of them.

 

[haolerider]

a complete shutdown like this.

You keep saying this, despite it being demonstrably false. I rode on the NEC yesterday. I'm on it right now.
Acelafan, that article must be getting around, we're leaving Newark Airport right now, and the train got completely slammed - I don't think that there's a single seat left.

Then Ryan, I stand corrected as regards the NEC and I appologize. Actually I am glad to hear the NEC is working. That alone is encouraging.

From all that I heard, the storm that hit the Mid Atlantic states was one of the worst that was recorded in modern times. I think we need to give the railroads including CSX and Amtrak a break here. Trees and power lines were downed by the heavy snowfall and wind. In addition, this area is not prepared for snowfall in the area of 2-3 feet. The fact that Amtrak was able to resume service in such a short time was commendable. Trying to run trains through these conditions in this part of the country would have been unsafe, unethical and bordering on the insane. Stranding passengers in the middle of nowhere for days on end is not a way to run a railroad just to try to prove a point. The Seaboard, ACL and PRR I don't think ever faced these conditions in these areas based on weather stats. I love rails as much as anyone and trains can continue in many instances when autos and planes cannot. That said, we all have to appreciate the power that the earth's weather can dish out.

Stephen D Lipman, D.M.D.

Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.

BS, BS, BS...............

More foolish comments. Get out on the road and tell this to the Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. employees who are out there in sub-zero temperatures cutting trees, repairing switches, clearing debris. I am sure they would love to hear how soft they are. They might even give you a chain saw and let your body do the work, rather than your mouth! No one likes to have trains cancelled - lost revenue for everyone whether they are passenger or freight. As far as your idea about chain saw crews on every train, how about adding a few cars with hoists and front loaders, in fact why not have a track clearing car run in front of every train? Have you ever participated in a conference call with a freight railroad and/or Amtrak to hear the concerns about speed of clearing and the need to get trains back on the road? If so, you should no better than to make your comments and if not, you are ill-prepared to give advise or criticize what you don't understand.

 

[wayman]

Well, I sure as Hell don't EVER want to see Amtrak advertising the "all-weather-mode" of transportation again. I *KNOW* they are at the mercy of the host railroads. But it just pisses me off that what they could do 40-50 years ago, now WON'T be done. Notice I didn't type "can't" I typed "won't".

No railroad in the northern Virginia, DC, and mid-Atlantic area has ever dealt with this weather situation. There is no comparable situation 40-50 years ago.

Railroads in the northeast/New England; in the Midwest; in the northern plains; in the Rockies; etc, have dealt with this stuff. But not here. Have you ever seen photos of the Pennsylvania Railroad using a rotary snowplow? I doubt it -- I'm pretty sure they never owned one. (The LIRR did (#193), but they're further north/east from the area affected by these storms. Penn Central did (#60021), but I suspect that was xNYC as I know they had a few.)

Does Amtrak even own heavy snow removal equipment?... Given the only territory which it's their responsibility to plow (the NEC), they may not have much by way of multiple-feet-of-wet-snow equipment on hand.