carriage of motorized scooters for mobility impaired

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NE933

Conductor
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
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1,107
Location
Queens, New York
My mother will likely become the owner of a battery powered motor scooter very soon, and if anyone on here can tell me a few answers (she does have medical certification of physical disability):

1. does Amtrak charge extra to carry these, whether in the H room of a Viewliner sleeper, or, in the handicapped section of an Amfleet coach?

2. Are we allowed to keep them in these areas, as opposed to placing them in baggage car, as long as they are out of the way?

3. is there anyone out there who is, or knows of, someone who depends on these, who can give some pointers of various techniques you use to make moving about easier for you, the train crew, companions, and other passengers?

4. any known limitations we need to know about?

Measurements are 37" long and about 19" wide.

Thanks ahead for your help.

:)
 
I don't know if those qualify as disabled transport, but if they do I'm sure all fees associated will be nominal.

Not at all suggesting anything about your mother, just an offside comment, but I see far too many able bodied use them around flea markets, and too many flea marek customers call them cool or wish they had one. As a guy who walks with a cane, I find the type obnoxious as all hell.
 
Oh, I know what you mean there. But, no, not in this case. I have a patient recovering from deviated discs and vertabrae (back surgery was right before Hurricane Sandy), and now, knee degeneration of the cartilage and bone structure. She has great difficulty getting up and getting around with a walker.
 
I don't know if those qualify as disabled transport, but if they do I'm sure all fees associated will be nominal.

Not at all suggesting anything about your mother, just an offside comment, but I see far too many able bodied use them around flea markets, and too many flea marek customers call them cool or wish they had one. As a guy who walks with a cane, I find the type obnoxious as all hell.
Not disagreeing that there are people who don't "need" the scooters, but just remember there are hidden disabilities/conditions that can cause a need for them. The person my look healthy enough to walk but may not be able to walk very far.
 
My mother traveled with a very large outdoor scooter for a while, larger than what you are talking about. It had a 5 foot turning radius (to be clear, 10 foot diameter) so turning it to get it down the hall to either coach or sleeper was interesting. This was in Superliners.

1. They do not cost extra.

2. They can stay in H-room or coach HC seating.

3. Do not try to take them between cars, like to Viewliner diner. Since scooters (unlike wheelchairs) are for people with some mobility, your mother should use her usual assistive device (walker or cane or whatever) to get around on the train. The coach HC restroom is okay to get to, though.

4. From experience ...

Measure the turning radius, it matters more than the size. Practice lifting the front around corners for your mother before leaving (figure out lift points that don't break the shell).

HC restrooms tend to get filthy faster than the others because people use them to take showers then don't clean up. People with small children also use the HC restroom. Their children do not fit on the elevated toilet so they sit them sideways, and the kid sprays (or other) all over the place, this also doesn't always get cleaned up. These able-bodied folks tie up the room for lengthy periods. Plan accordingly.

HC restrooms are often used for storage, making it impossible to get a wheelchair/scooter in, plan accordingly.

If reserving coach, say you want a transfer seat. Your mother will get two tickets, one for her and one for the scooter. This way she won't need to sit in the scooter the whole trip.

Many train cars are designed so the HC seats have no window. You do not have to take that spot if you can get to a different vacant seat. If the conductor gives you flack, politely say it is a clear case of discrimination that could easily be taken care of without cost by a change in policies so you'll be taking photos, writing letters, etc. Then do it.

I'd say over half the time I've been in coach, there has been luggage stored in the way. Amtrak staff will be apologetic and take care of it, just be patient. While you wait, you should pick out the seats you want before they fill up.

I see your mother currently uses a walker. Figure out a way to mount it to the scooter. Have your mother practice in the scooter with the additional length until she can turn without swinging the walker into walls and other people.

Amtrak has a reasonable rule that you can only use one discount at a time. This means you can't use a disabled discount with these other discounts that are sometimes better. They have an unreasonable rule that you can't reserve wheelchair space without using the disabled discount. I've been told if I show up with a wheelchair without the disabled reservation, I can be denied boarding since there is a limit to how many wheelchairs of various types can fit on a train. Someday I'll test that when I have extra time to miss a train. I'm mentioning this because there seem to be more such discounts in the NE than here.

Follow your mother's lead on whether she wants to ball people out or shame them by smiling and making eye contact or conversation when they are inconsiderate. Both approaches are needed to improve the public's attitude about access issues. Amtrak has a long and pretty consistent history of losing ADA lawsuits, so just figure you are likely to run into issues and don't freak out about them, onboard staff are great and will figure something out.
 
I don't know if those qualify as disabled transport, but if they do I'm sure all fees associated will be nominal.

Not at all suggesting anything about your mother, just an offside comment, but I see far too many able bodied use them around flea markets, and too many flea marek customers call them cool or wish they had one. As a guy who walks with a cane, I find the type obnoxious as all hell.
Not disagreeing that there are people who don't "need" the scooters, but just remember there are hidden disabilities/conditions that can cause a need for them. The person my look healthy enough to walk but may not be able to walk very far.
I think I'm a Perfect Example of that! I've had Red Caps ask me if I could let someone take my place on the cart because they thought I was able to walk! And I'm very aware of that, and it's a little uncomfortable knowing people may think I'm being Lazy & Disrespectful of others!
 
I know some people with mobility issues do not always look like they have them. I have balance issues and a bad ankle. I can walk without a cane, and do so in situations where I am mostly going to be seated, the spaces are closed in (can catch myself when I fall easily), or I can lean on things, and the cane would get in the way (e.g. A restaurant with a close parking).

But when a guy parks in a handicap spot, gets out, lifts a scooter out of his pickup bed, puts it on the ground, uses it to get around the market, puts it back in the pick up bed, and then gets called by a vendor for forgetting something and he sprints like Jesse Owens to get it, I see red.
 
I don't know if those qualify as disabled transport, but if they do I'm sure all fees associated will be nominal.

Not at all suggesting anything about your mother, just an offside comment, but I see far too many able bodied use them around flea markets, and too many flea marek customers call them cool or wish they had one. As a guy who walks with a cane, I find the type obnoxious as all hell.
Not disagreeing that there are people who don't "need" the scooters, but just remember there are hidden disabilities/conditions that can cause a need for them. The person my look healthy enough to walk but may not be able to walk very far.
I think I'm a Perfect Example of that! I've had Red Caps ask me if I could let someone take my place on the cart because they thought I was able to walk! And I'm very aware of that, and it's a little uncomfortable knowing people may think I'm being Lazy & Disrespectful of others!
I felt a little funny pre boarding a couple of planes a couple of years ago. But figured, what the heck. I didn't ask to pre board (my disability does not affect my mobility), the gate agents told me to go ahead and board.
 
I know some people with mobility issues do not always look like they have them. I have balance issues and a bad ankle. I can walk without a cane, and do so in situations where I am mostly going to be seated, the spaces are closed in (can catch myself when I fall easily), or I can lean on things, and the cane would get in the way (e.g. A restaurant with a close parking).

But when a guy parks in a handicap spot, gets out, lifts a scooter out of his pickup bed, puts it on the ground, uses it to get around the market, puts it back in the pick up bed, and then gets called by a vendor for forgetting something and he sprints like Jesse Owens to get it, I see red.
As you should. There will always be people abusing the systems put into place for the "handicapped".
 
I know some people with mobility issues do not always look like they have them. I have balance issues and a bad ankle. I can walk without a cane, and do so in situations where I am mostly going to be seated, the spaces are closed in (can catch myself when I fall easily), or I can lean on things, and the cane would get in the way (e.g. A restaurant with a close parking).

But when a guy parks in a handicap spot, gets out, lifts a scooter out of his pickup bed, puts it on the ground, uses it to get around the market, puts it back in the pick up bed, and then gets called by a vendor for forgetting something and he sprints like Jesse Owens to get it, I see red.
As you should. There will always be people abusing the systems put into place for the "handicapped".
I feel the same as both of you.
I have a balance coordination problem, but do not deny I can walk short distances unaided. Depending how I feel that day, most times I use the handicapped spot (which I'm entitled to use) but sometimes I don't. It infuriates me when someone pulls in to the handicapped spot then sprints into the store - "because I'll only be a minute"! :angry: They do not think - or care - about the car right behind them looking for a handicapped parking spot who has a real handicap besides they forgot to buy a candy bar!
 
I don't know if those qualify as disabled transport, but if they do I'm sure all fees associated will be nominal.

Not at all suggesting anything about your mother, just an offside comment, but I see far too many able bodied use them around flea markets, and too many flea marek customers call them cool or wish they had one. As a guy who walks with a cane, I find the type obnoxious as all hell.
That is sooooooo wrong to think, let alone even say that. I would like a apology for such a bad remark. You should take a class on the disabled where you would be taught, not all disabilities are visible.

I don't know you, and I really don't care to know you. But I am sure before you needed a cane to walk, you were able bodied. I used to be able to out walk you on your best day. I am one of those people who can out walk a cross town bus in Manhattan.

Till I had work related injuries that injured both legs, which zapped my ability to walk long distances, or even more than two blocks without taking a rest, I find your comments highly disgusting. If you look at my legs, you couldn't tell I was injured. You would probably think I am overweight with a heart condition.

I take yearly vacations to Walt Disney World. I now have to spend over $200 to rent a scooter for a week so I can have a chance to enjoy myself. But don't think for a second, I am doing this because some people feel that gets me to the front of line. Don't think for even a second I prefer to be stuck in a scooter, not being able to walk like I used to. I wish one day I can walk like I used to, but that is highly unlikely.

Bruce-SSR
 
HC restrooms are often used for storage, making it impossible to get a wheelchair/scooter in, plan accordingly.

I'd say over half the time I've been in coach, there has been luggage stored in the way. Amtrak staff will be apologetic and take care of it, just be patient. While you wait, you should pick out the seats you want before they fill up.
Storing anything in the HC restroom is not allowed. Some had been putting large trash containers in there. That has been addressed. Nothing is to be stored in them.

As for luggage in the HC wheelchair space. That is an ongoing problem. Despite signs that the space is for disabled passengers, passengers board and toss their luggage in that space.

If bringing a scooter or wheelchair in coach be sure to call up and reserve the wheelchair space. If it is not reserved it can't be guaranteed. It will go first to passengers who booked the space.
 
NOTE: This post was part of a back and forth between me and Silver Star Rider that was deleted (with good cause) with the upshot being that I decided to post what I wrote to him.

Actually, I apologize if I think that Bruce is actually not going to read this, but I am fairly cynical. So in that vein, I have decided to post my personal message publicly, since perhaps somebody else might have misunderstood, and there is nothing truly personal here. If you do read it, Bruce, feel free to reply privately:

First of all, I apologize for you being offended. It is mostly your fault, because it means you misunderstood my post and the meaning of it, but for the degree to which I contributed to your offense, I sincerely apologize.

But I would also like an apology from you.

A few years ago, I was as able bodied as you, at least to the degree I pushed myself. I was born with CP. I was told I was never going to be able to walk at all. Then we finally found a doctor that was willing to do an experimental surgery on my leg to compensate for the effects of the CP I was suffering from. Despite fairly long odds, the surgery worked. I could walk- initially with braces- but I did it. When I was 8 my mother told me what the doctor had said when I was young about being unable to walk. I was a kid, but I swore to my mother I would not just walk. I would run a marathon.

I spent the next ten years training for it. It hurt like all mighty hell. My back had been thrown out of whack by the surgery. I spent much of my training on pain killers. But when I was 18 I entered the New York Marathon. I didn't do spectacularly, but I did finish, and was not the last to do so. Close, admittedly, but not last.

I also used to play football, and some other sports as well, despite my physical limitations. Among other things, I am missing several muscles in my right leg.

Now, a few years ago, I slipped on ice, fell, and broke my right ankle with a nasty eversion, and tore up one of the muscles there badly. Had it been you, or somebody else with a normal body, I would have been back on my feet in a month or so. Maybe I would have been ok had I not put on a lot of weight in my twenties- I weighed about 350 lbs when I fell. But with my condition from the surgery, it took three weeks before I could put weight back on it, and when it screws up, as it does randomly, I am likely to fall.

My doctor told me I should be using a wheelchair. I refuse to be disabled, and don't. I do walk with a cane most of the time, although I will not if I can be reasonably assured of not falling. I'm stubborn. Perhaps stupid, in fact.

I know that people who are disabled are not always apparently so, and I respect that. I have immense compassion for people who are physically disabled because I know what its like. I am even understanding of people who are less stubborn and less stupid than I am, and are willing to not tear up whats left of their body trying to be as able bodied as possible. '

But I have no tolerance or respect for the sadly many people who think that using a wheelchair or scooter is cool because they could get to the front of the line or other such nonsense. Because they don't understand the living hell life becomes when you are a cripple. I have a seething loathing hatred of the few people who actually attempt to take advantage and fake out the system for the "benefits" of being disabled- because they deprive those of us who need it, or would seriously derive needed benefit from it.

I do not think many people actually fake it. I did not imply it, and your inference of such a feeling was entirely in error. I do think a lot of people have the false feelings that you think I have. You got it backassward, Bruce. I wasn't suggesting that people pretend to be handicapped, and I hate them for it. I was saying that OTHER people think that its a game, a fake, a trick, and I hate THOSE people for it.
 
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Two types of people in the world: The disabled, and the temporarily able-bodied.

As to the original issue, be sure to call first, and give Amtrak as much useful info as you can. Most OBS personnel will bend over backwards to ensure a good trip for you. Trash, or anything else, stored in the HC restroom? An absolute no-no. Facilities for the disabled are installed to be used by those who need them, and not for storage of other passengers' luggage or any other extraneous items.
 
In various cities, it has been found that if handicapped parking spaces are made substantially cheaper than regular parking spaces, they will be abused. I was actually involved in discussing parking policy with a mayor recently, and made the point that handicapped spaces need to cost the same amount as regular spaces in order to keep the scammers away and keep the spaces clear for those who need them. Amtrak's discount is small enough that, thankfully, it does not seem to have induced much scamming.
 
My dad got a scooter before he was "disabled". He could walk, but it was slower, in pain, and had trouble with far distances so he got a scooter for when he needed to go long distances (i.e. amusement parks and fairs). For short distances he could walk and you probably wouldn't know that he was having problems.

In reality, there are a lot more people that are disabled that don't services, then the fully able bodied that do.
 
In various cities, it has been found that if handicapped parking spaces are made substantially cheaper than regular parking spaces, they will be abused. I was actually involved in discussing parking policy with a mayor recently, and made the point that handicapped spaces need to cost the same amount as regular spaces in order to keep the scammers away and keep the spaces clear for those who need them. Amtrak's discount is small enough that, thankfully, it does not seem to have induced much scamming.
In a local McDonalds, they have a contract with a towing company to tow cars that park in the McDonalds parking lot, but visit other nearby businesses. The street parking right outside have meters. The tow truck driver thinks nothing about parking in the handicap spots while he goes into get food even though thanks to his efforts, there are plenty of empty spots that may take him a extra 5 seconds of walking. He never displays a parking permit to park there.

There is a sign I like that some places display on the same pole as the handicap sign. Like my spot? Take my handicap too. (or something like that).

There are too many people in this world that never went to medical school, don't have Superman's x-ray vision, yet can diagnosis someone who is abled bodied in mere seconds.

Sometimes I forget to display my parking permit. If I am ticketed because I forgot, as long as I provide information that I do have a permit, it is a forgiven offense. If I pass a car not displaying a permit in their window, I am not quick to judge.

Bruce-SSR
 
You know, I put out this post for some info, and got it, and then amongst a few turned into a war of words and vitriol. I can see now more that ever, that we are our worst enemy, we cause all our problems. Ex Beatle George Harrison said it all in his song "isn't it a pity how we cause each other pain".
 
"Walk a mile in their shoes!" Is a good policy to keep in mind concerning those with disabilities!

My pet peeve is those selfish cretins that park in handicap designated spots and also the Grumps and NIMBYs that complain about the ADA Law by claiming that no-one should get "special treatment" that I have to pay for!( these types don't realize that the Rich and Corporations get special treatment that we all pay for, but that's another matter that's best left for the next election!)
 
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In various cities, it has been found that if handicapped parking spaces are made substantially cheaper than regular parking spaces, they will be abused. I was actually involved in discussing parking policy with a mayor recently, and made the point that handicapped spaces need to cost the same amount as regular spaces in order to keep the scammers away and keep the spaces clear for those who need them. Amtrak's discount is small enough that, thankfully, it does not seem to have induced much scamming.
In a local McDonalds, they have a contract with a towing company to tow cars that park in the McDonalds parking lot, but visit other nearby businesses. The street parking right outside have meters. The tow truck driver thinks nothing about parking in the handicap spots while he goes into get food even though thanks to his efforts, there are plenty of empty spots that may take him a extra 5 seconds of walking. He never displays a parking permit to park there.
Unbelievable. Awful. Illegal, too. I wonder if reporting him to the city would work.
The cities which have had documented trouble with lots of scamming are cities where regular parking is several dollars an hour, but handicapped spaces are completely free. There are enough people who want to get something for nothing. :-( Cities where the handicapped spaces cost the same amount as other parking don't have this sort of scamming, because able-bodied people aren't going to make that much effort to steal a handicapped space... unless it saves them money. :-(

Sometimes I forget to display my parking permit. If I am ticketed because I forgot, as long as I provide information that I do have a permit, it is a forgiven offense. If I pass a car not displaying a permit in their window, I am not quick to judge.
Yeah, that's happened to my fiancee, though she's also been ticketed when she DID display her permit by police who clearly weren't paying attention (this sort of ticket is also tossed, obviously, but one of the ones I had to deal with, you have to go to a non-accessible building to get it tossed -- yeech).
 
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