Chicago-Boston direct service

[Rafi]

I hope this means an additional sleeper is being added, because I am on that train in november in sleeper... should I call Amtrak in a few days to make sure all is jake?

Are there any recent events which would increase the number of Viewliners Amtrak physically has in working condition every day? (I suppose Reliability Centered Maintenance or rebuilding the prototypes to be more standard could perhaps both be ways of accomplishing that, but I haven't heard that Amtrak is actually taking either of those approaches.)

None that I'm aware of, certainly the prototypes haven't been rebuilt.

I have to wonder if the other side of this that we're not yet hearing about is the often rumored return of Superliner's to the Cardinal.

Alan,

I thought about that, but tried booking a dummy reservation from NYP to CHW in December, and it's still offering a one-seat ride on the Cardinal in coach or sleeper, so it appears the Cardinal is sticking to single level at least through the winter... If the Cardinal did give up the Viewliner, hypothetically speaking, is that enough to stock 448/449?

-Rafi

 

[printman2000]

Scanning through I do not remember if this info had been reported...

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

You can see these choices by putting in Alb-Bos or Alb-NYP for some date like November 3.

Business class on 448/449 seems to have gotten the axe as well.

48 also shows an arrival time in to NYP at 7:25 (currently 7:40).

Odd thing, going Bos-ALB on 449 shows "Snack Car" not dining car.

NYP-ALB on 49 does not seem to be allowed. Cannot get that choice to up.

 

[AlanB]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

Business class on 448/449 seems to have gotten the axe as well.

That makes sense, as they'd only have AMF II's running through.

 

[had8ley]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.
Odd thing, going Bos-ALB on 449 shows "Snack Car" not dining car.

NYP-ALB on 49 does not seem to be allowed. Cannot get that choice to up.

Are they going back to the Heritage diner? I strongly suspect that the Boston car will be a CCC with one LSA manning for snack service and nuke items. The chef and SA's will probably deadhead to NYP to save expenses. Just a wild guess.

 

[VentureForth]

Business class on 448/449 seems to have gotten the axe as well.

That makes sense, as they'd only have AMF II's running through.

They don't offer three classes on any train, do they? Sleepers will be first class, and no more BC. What equipment did they use for BC?

Up until this change did they offer BC, Coach and Sleeper from Albany to Chicago?

I've always thought that a BC car on the Silvers would be nice...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.
Odd thing, going Bos-ALB on 449 shows "Snack Car" not dining car.

NYP-ALB on 49 does not seem to be allowed. Cannot get that choice to up.

Are they going back to the Heritage diner? I strongly suspect that the Boston car will be a CCC with one LSA manning for snack service and nuke items. The chef and SA's will probably deadhead to NYP to save expenses. Just a wild guess.

Come on, Had8ly, you should know better than this. A Cross Country Cafe is a re-configured Superliner I dining car used on various routes. A Diner-Lounge/Diner-Lite is a Amfleet II lounge that they attempt to pass off as a dining car.

 

[Steve4031]

If they could run two of those diner lounge/diner light cars between Chicago and Albany, with one going to Boston, and one going to NYC, it might work. Even though I had a decent experience with these cars last summer (food was OK, seating arrangement defied logic), one of them is not enough to handle a crowded train.

Would Boston have the provisions for servicing one of these cars?

 

[printman2000]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

I put in a reservation from ALB-BOS for November 3rd and it showed a dining car on 448. The ALB-NYP shows a Lounge Car.

 

[wayman]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

I put in a reservation from ALB-BOS for November 3rd and it showed a dining car on 448. The ALB-NYP shows a Lounge Car.

Well, given that they've been running both a diner-lite and a horizon lounge, it sounds like they're just sending the former to BOS and the latter to NYP. That still brings up the question of how they'll service and restock the diner-lite in BOS (which, as Alan points out, BOS is not equipped for). But there's no need to put a heritage diner into the equation, they can run a "dining" car to BOS without one if they're just going to start calling "diner-lite" "dining" for reservation purposes (which makes sense, since they want to differentiate it from "snack" or "lounge" service).

 

[printman2000]

So what do you think, will they change one of current LSL sleepers into a Boston sleeper or do they add an additional sleeper?

Seems the LSL always has two and sometimes has three. Maybe they make the third permanent and make it the Boston sleeper. That way, no additional sleepers are needed.

 

[printman2000]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

I put in a reservation from ALB-BOS for November 3rd and it showed a dining car on 448. The ALB-NYP shows a Lounge Car.

Well, given that they've been running both a diner-lite and a horizon lounge, it sounds like they're just sending the former to BOS and the latter to NYP. That still brings up the question of how they'll service and restock the diner-lite in BOS (which, as Alan points out, BOS is not equipped for). But there's no need to put a heritage diner into the equation, they can run a "dining" car to BOS without one if they're just going to start calling "diner-lite" "dining" for reservation purposes (which makes sense, since they want to differentiate it from "snack" or "lounge" service).

Who knows what they are doing. It shows a Dining car on 448 from ALB-BOS and a Cafe car on 449 from BOS-ALB. Who knows what it will come down to when it is all sorted out.

 

[Rafi]

According to NARP:

The most significant change is the restoration of Lake Shore Limited through cars between Boston and Albany-Rensselaer for the first time since February 17, 2004. Passengers on trains 448 and 449 will no longer need to make a cross-platform transfer at Albany-Rensselaer. Trains 448 and 449 will thus also have its Viewliner sleeper restored, in place of the current Business Class. Sleeper passengers will receive complimentary cold meal service (both sections will have an Amfleet Diner-Lite car for food service).

Rafi

 

[Shotgun7]

So since both sections will have a Diner-Lite, does that mean that there will be 2 diner lites and 1 Horizon cafe? Or does it just mean that one diner-lite will be turned into the cafe once the train is combined?

 

[PRR 60]

I have heard that the decision to restore the Viewliner to the Lake Shore Boston section has been reversed, at least for the moment. Apparently the Boston Amtrak maintenance people objected to the need to allocate resources to service the Viewliner and store the necessary spare parts (this would be the only Viewliner Boston would need to work). This is rumor only.

 

[had8ley]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

I put in a reservation from ALB-BOS for November 3rd and it showed a dining car on 448. The ALB-NYP shows a Lounge Car.

Well, given that they've been running both a diner-lite and a horizon lounge, it sounds like they're just sending the former to BOS and the latter to NYP. That still brings up the question of how they'll service and restock the diner-lite in BOS (which, as Alan points out, BOS is not equipped for). But there's no need to put a heritage diner into the equation, they can run a "dining" car to BOS without one if they're just going to start calling "diner-lite" "dining" for reservation purposes (which makes sense, since they want to differentiate it from "snack" or "lounge" service).

Well there is another point in running a diner, CCC or whatever it may be to Boston. When the CCC started on the Eagle the CS Manager said that the CCC would be stocked in Chicago for the entire round trip to San Antonio and return, except for small incidentals like ice and water. Perhaps they're going to try this with a CCC on the LSL? I only see disaster if they have sell-outs in both directions.

 

[AlanB]

Well there is another point in running a diner, CCC or whatever it may be to Boston. When the CCC started on the Eagle the CS Manager said that the CCC would be stocked in Chicago for the entire round trip to San Antonio and return, except for small incidentals like ice and water. Perhaps they're going to try this with a CCC on the LSL? I only see disaster if they have sell-outs in both directions.

A CCC has probably two to three times the storage space, particularly cold storage space, than a Diner-Lite does. So I wouldn't think that they'd be trying that with the LSL. Besides, Amtrak can't eliminate the commissaries in Boston, Chicago, or NYP. It wouldn't be that hard however to do so in San Antonio as only the Eagle really needs restocking there.

And eliminating the commissary is where the real savings are.

 

[printman2000]

So, do you think they will offer dinner on 48 between ALB and NYP?

 

[wayman]

Well there is another point in running a diner, CCC or whatever it may be to Boston. When the CCC started on the Eagle the CS Manager said that the CCC would be stocked in Chicago for the entire round trip to San Antonio and return, except for small incidentals like ice and water. Perhaps they're going to try this with a CCC on the LSL? I only see disaster if they have sell-outs in both directions.

A CCC has probably two to three times the storage space, particularly cold storage space, than a Diner-Lite does. So I wouldn't think that they'd be trying that with the LSL. Besides, Amtrak can't eliminate the commissaries in Boston, Chicago, or NYP. It wouldn't be that hard however to do so in San Antonio as only the Eagle really needs restocking there.

And eliminating the commissary is where the real savings are.

Of course, with all the food shortages on the LSL 49, one wonders if they've secretly eliminated the commissary in Chicago. That would be one possible explanation for why they leave Chicago without half the menu items....

 

[AlanB]

So, do you think they will offer dinner on 48 between ALB and NYP?

They didn't before the change, not sure why they would suddenly start doing so after the change.

Now perhaps if there is also a time schedule change, then things could be different.

 

[AlanB]

Well there is another point in running a diner, CCC or whatever it may be to Boston. When the CCC started on the Eagle the CS Manager said that the CCC would be stocked in Chicago for the entire round trip to San Antonio and return, except for small incidentals like ice and water. Perhaps they're going to try this with a CCC on the LSL? I only see disaster if they have sell-outs in both directions.

A CCC has probably two to three times the storage space, particularly cold storage space, than a Diner-Lite does. So I wouldn't think that they'd be trying that with the LSL. Besides, Amtrak can't eliminate the commissaries in Boston, Chicago, or NYP. It wouldn't be that hard however to do so in San Antonio as only the Eagle really needs restocking there.

And eliminating the commissary is where the real savings are.

Of course, with all the food shortages on the LSL 49, one wonders if they've secretly eliminated the commissary in Chicago. That would be one possible explanation for why they leave Chicago without half the menu items....

I'm not sure why they never seem to have a full allocation of food, but it's not because they've eliminated the commissary in Chicago. They can't do that, as all the short distance trains require it, not to mention the west bound LD's.

My guess is that either someone's trying to save money, or perhaps the crews just don't want to be bothered with preparing all the choices.

But I do agree that a train that serves only breakfast and lunch shouldn't be out of things on so many occasions, especially when you're the first person seated for lunch and they're already out of 3 things.

 

[had8ley]

One of the biggest gripes the Sunset crews had coming through New Orleans was the shortage of available supplies even when they ordered ahead on #1 and #2 when they rolled east of NOL. It's been some time now since Amtrak handed over the commissaries to outside vendors~ you would think someone would hold their feet to the fire after all this time.

 

[had8ley]

The dining car will be going to Boston and the lounge will go to New York.

Where did you hear/see that? That makes no sense as Boston is not equiped to deal with a dining car.

I put in a reservation from ALB-BOS for November 3rd and it showed a dining car on 448. The ALB-NYP shows a Lounge Car.

Well, given that they've been running both a diner-lite and a horizon lounge, it sounds like they're just sending the former to BOS and the latter to NYP. That still brings up the question of how they'll service and restock the diner-lite in BOS (which, as Alan points out, BOS is not equipped for). But there's no need to put a heritage diner into the equation, they can run a "dining" car to BOS without one if they're just going to start calling "diner-lite" "dining" for reservation purposes (which makes sense, since they want to differentiate it from "snack" or "lounge" service).

Well there is another point in running a diner, CCC or whatever it may be to Boston. When the CCC started on the Eagle the CS Manager said that the CCC would be stocked in Chicago for the entire round trip to San Antonio and return, except for small incidentals like ice and water. Perhaps they're going to try this with a CCC on the LSL? I only see disaster if they have sell-outs in both directions.

DUH! Maybe I jumped the gun on this one. Can Superliner equipment even run to Boston?

 

[Rafi]

FWIW, I spoke to David Johnson of NARP yesterday about the LSL changes at DC's Union Station's 100th birthday bash. Here's the information he had:

-The LSL has been running with 3 viewliners out of NYP, and they're simply taking one of those and putting it in Boston. So NYP will release 2 viewliners onto the LSL, and Boston will release the third. Amtrak reservations are working on a reservation-by-reservation basis right now to re-accommodate people that were booked out of NYP on that Boston sleeper and to offer the Boston sleeper to BOS-ALB passengers who are currently booked sleeper out of ALB. The Boston sleeper won't show up on the website until they finish that task.

-Regarding cold meals vs hot meals for Boston passengers, that's still being firmed up, and nothing's for sure yet. At the very least, cold meals should be available, but logic would dictate that since you're running a Diner-Lounge (and let's remember, Diner-Lounge refers to the car while Diner-Lite refers to the menu!) to Boston, one would think that some sort of food service should be available. A lot hinges on what staff will be working the Diner-Lounge out of Boston.

-Rafi

 

[AlanB]

-Regarding cold meals vs hot meals for Boston passengers, that's still being firmed up, and nothing's for sure yet. At the very least, cold meals should be available, but logic would dictate that since you're running a Diner-Lounge (and let's remember, Diner-Lounge refers to the car while Diner-Lite refers to the menu!) to Boston, one would think that some sort of food service should be available. A lot hinges on what staff will be working the Diner-Lounge out of Boston.

No, Diner-Lounge is the official car name for what we refer to as a CCC (Amtrak now uses that "brand" name in marketing, but Arrow still shows the cars as Diner-Lounge), converted Superliner Dining cars. Lounge-Diner refers to an as yet unreleased conversion of a Superliner cafe to a CCC type car. At least I haven't heard that it's been released. Diner-Lite is what Amtrak calls the AMF II conversions, and SDS is the menu/type of food service now being offered on most trains.

 

[AlanB]

DUH! Maybe I jumped the gun on this one. Can Superliner equipment even run to Boston?

Yes, Superliners can run to Boston, but they can't run to NY. So you'd now need two types of equipment, single and bi-level, with a trans/dorm in between.