pdxjim
Service Attendant
The Coast Starlight hit a very expensive herd of cattle north of Klamath Falls.
Click here for the story.
Jim in Portland
Click here for the story.
Jim in Portland
Coast Starlight Hits Herd of Expensive Cattle
- Thread starter pdxjim
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Wow, can't help but feel a little remorse for the rancher and his cattle in this one. Who knows if it's really UP's fault though for not maintaining the fence. I don't think he'll get anything from Amtrak.
Ben_G
Service Attendant
Looks like the rancher should have rode fence more often.
I extend my sympothy to the rancher.How sad.......But whats with the C.S.First it was attacked by a runaway irrigation rig,now cattle on the tracks.Whats next?.....This has not been a good summer for amtrak or for cattle.
the_traveler
Engineer
BREAKING NEWS
Flat Iron Steaks are back on the menu for a limited time!
Flat Iron Steaks are back on the menu for a limited time!
This is a really unfortunate occurence, and I'd be interested in seeing a photo of that piece of right of way - by description apparently a high fill.
The Salers Breed
10 good reasons for breeding Salers cattle.
The Salers cow:
The Salers Breed
10 good reasons for breeding Salers cattle.
The Salers cow:
- Can live off poor grazing under difficult climatic conditions.
- Is hardy.
- Is fertile and prolific: it will produce one calf per cow per year.
- Calves easily even when crossed with heavy muscled breeds bulls.
- Has exceptional maternal qualities (milk) ensuring heavy, vigorous calves at weaning.
- Has a sexual precocity and a notable longevity.
- Produces high-quality carcasses and meat.
- Is docile and easy to manage.
- Has minimal labour requirements.
- Requires less capital than other breeds.
George Harris
Engineer
Sorry, I have no symnpthy for the rancher at all. Maybe because my grandfather rasied cattle the last 20 plus of his farming years. As a pre-teen and teenager I spent quite a few days helping my grandfather mend fences. He was aggravated that one of the neighboring landowners didn't do his part, but even if it meant my grandfather did more than his share, he did it because it was his cattle he was protecting. You protect your valuables, whether animate or inanimate. This sounds like a failure to maintain your valuables. If these cattle were so valuable why did the rancher not make sure of the fence conditions regardless of who was supposed to be responsible. As to the railroad being 100% responsible: maybe California is different, but in most states maintaining a boundary fence is supposed to be 50-50. In some places maintinaing the fence adjacent to a railroad is the same as maintaining a fence next to a road. If you want a good fence YOU build and maintain a good fence.
Somehow, I knew the above comment was coming . . and from the_traveler!!BREAKING NEWS
Flat Iron Steaks are back on the menu for a limited time!
rrdude
Engineer
OK Dave, you win, HANDS DOWN. Best REPLY POST OF THE YEAR!BREAKING NEWS
Flat Iron Steaks are back on the menu for a limited time!
Loved this quote from the rancher who lost the 24 head to the evil CS" :"They didn't know better," Holloway. "They're cows." "
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My grandparents raise cattle as well, and I've helped work them and done my share of building and mending fence. You are right that the rancher should have done a better job checking the perimeter. The article said he was leasing the land and he lived a good 90 minutes away. It's impossible to check it every single day though. All it takes is a wash out of some weak posts and then you have a downed fence, or something like that.
George Harris
Engineer
True, but we are talking California here where rain is a relatively infrequent event. So far as I know therre has not been one recently in that area, so a failure due to weather is not something that occurred within the last few days or even few weeks.
North of Klamath Falls...not in California.
Ispolkom
Engineer
If the accident occured in an open range area in Oregon, as claimed in the article, the railroad has to maintain fences and is liable if it didn't. That's how I read Oregon Revised Statutes, chapter 608. Even in Minnesota, which I don't think ever had open range laws, railroads are solely responsible for fencing their lines, and are liable for killing or injuring domestic animals that wander on to the railroad line because of inadequate fencing or cattle guards.
I'd agree that good fences make good neighbors, but I'm not a western rancher. Isn't the whole point of open range laws is to limit the cost of fencing to ranchers?
fairviewroad
Engineer
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
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- 3,387
I'm guessing it's cheaper to pay for the occasional dead moo-cow than it is to maintain thousands of miles of fences. The pay-out will be higher
in this case but UP still probably comes out ahead. My guess is they settle out of court and be done with it.
and I was going to say the new special on the dining car menu was steak at a special cheap price. Seems Amtrak got a deal.Somehow, I knew the above comment was coming . . and from the_traveler!!BREAKING NEWS
Flat Iron Steaks are back on the menu for a limited time!
OlympianHiawatha
Engineer
I can just see sitting in the PPC enjoying the scenery and suddenly loads of dead cattle come sailing by. Might want to see just what is in that morning coffee 
Ben_G
Service Attendant
I ask our car attendent on the CZ a long time back if he thought they would let me ride in the engine. He ask why would I want to do that....I told him to see what kind and how many critters we ran over during the night....he smiled and told me I was SICK....
George Harris
Engineer
A side issue:
We have a train that hid a herd of cattle. Killed 24. After being released, the train continued its run.
A few years back a German ICE train hit a flock of sheep. Killed 22. Derailed train.
We have a train that hid a herd of cattle. Killed 24. After being released, the train continued its run.
A few years back a German ICE train hit a flock of sheep. Killed 22. Derailed train.
Devil's Advocate
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If I'm understanding the situation correctly this rancher is claiming his super valuable but apparently completely uninsured cows had the right of way? If not then why is he intending to sue Amtrak? Since there is no limit to how many parties can be found culpable of a single event or action is it possible that the indemnity agreement between Amtrak and Union Pacific could result in two separate fines to Amtrak if Union Pacific loses their case as well? If so this incident could easily cost well over a million dollars in fines and fees. Makes me wonder if so-called open-range laws have outlived their useful lives.
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T
train person
Guest
And? Every accident is different.
If you want to make the point that Amtrak trains are indestructible behemoths then better not mention events regarding the CZ recently. Waving the safety flag isn't generally the best way to proceed.
Devil's Advocate
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I'm not sure who's right or wrong but you have to admit the urban vs. rural war going on in the article's comments section is pretty amusing. I still can't get over the fact that this rancher guy apparently left his super-duper-valuable cattle to wander off as they pleased or that open range laws inadvertently give cattle the right of way over a train. Just seems a little, well, backward to me. I suppose as an "urban elite" I just can't comprehend how hard it is to keep a determined cow from escaping its pen and running off to play chicken with the nearest train.
NY Penn
OBS Chief
As Thomas the Tank Engine once said:
Not MOO, MOVE!
Not MOO, MOVE!
Western open range laws vary from state to state. The one common theme in all of them is that you must fence "out" cattle. Here in Wyoming if you have constructed a legal fence (as defined in statute) around your property, you are not liable for any damage to cattle that breach your fence. Conversly the cattle owner is liable to damage on your property.
In reading through ORS 608 the railroad has additional responsibilities for fencing its property. There is a caveat though..again the legal fence or barrier.. it in no way gives cattle the right of way. The railroad did construct a legal fence it was just breached.
Contrary to belief, cattle will push down fence to get to the "good stuff" that hasn't been grazed on the other side.
Open range is not to avoid fencing cost. We have alot of public grazing lands out here and the acre per head grazing average is very high. Cattle out here have to use more land to graze than in the east.
Also there is alot of plain old tradition driving "Open range". As a side note in Wyoming cattle are "Fence out" where-as sheep are "Fence in". Left overs from the late 1800s range wars.
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