Coast Starlight SUSPENDED entire route (1-24-08)

[daniel3197]

Heads up for those who have not seen this OFFICIAL Amtrak notice here it is.

This is supposed to begin with train 14 Los Angeles departure of Jan 24th (thursday) and

train 11 scheduled Seattle departure on Jan 25th (friday).

I myself fear that this may follow the pattern of the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans

with a de facto discontinued service.

We shall see what happens. I really hope I can be proven wrong about my fears.

Strangely the official advisory wrong about the location of the slide closure.

The slide is actually located NORTH of Chemult and SOUTH of Eugene in Oregon.

This info courtesy of Gene Poon from the "All Aboard" Yahoo Group TUes Jan 22, 2008 at 8:09AM PST :

---- Daniel

================================================== =

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/All_.../message/160143

This is the advisory about cancellation of all Coast Starlight service

after Friday. All the misspellings and the geographical faux pas are

included for your reading pleasure:

AMTRAK WESTERN REGION SPECIAL ADVISORY=21ST JANUARY 2008 5:10PM

FOLLOWING A MUDSLIDE SOUTH (SIC) OF CMO, AND SUBSEQUENT LINE

CLOSURE TRAIN 11 & 14 WILL BE SEVERELY DISRUPTED OVER THE NEXT FEW

WEEKS. BELOW IS A SUMMARY OF THE PLAN AGREED BY AMTRAK AND UPRR.

TRAIN 14 CANCELLED BETWEEN LAX-SEA, 24TH JAN TO 31ST JAN INCLUSIVE

TRAIN 11 CANCELLED BETWEEN SEA-LAX, 25TH JAN TO 1ST FEB INCLUSIVE

** NO ALTERNATE TRANSPORTATION IS OFFERED IN LEIU OF CANCELLED

TRAINS**

TRAIN 14(21) TERMINATES KFS, BUS KFS-PDX, TRAIN PDX-SEA

TRAIN 14(22) TERMINATES KFS, BUS KFS-PDX, TRAIN PDX-SEA

TRAIN 14(23) TERMINATES KFS, BUS KFS-EUG, TRAIN EUG-SEA

TRAIN 14 BETWEEN LAX-SEA WILL NOT OPERATE UNTIL 1ST FEBRUARY

TRAIN 11(21) TRAIN SEA-PDX, BUS PDX-KFS, TRAIN KFS-LAX

TRAIN 11(22) TRAIN SEA-PDX, BUS PDX-KFS, TRAIN KFS-LAX

TRAIN 11(23) TRAIN SEA-EUG, BUS EUG-KFS, TRAIN KFS-LAX

TRAIN 11(24) TRAIN SEA-EUG, BUS EUG-KFS, TRAIN KFS-LAX

TRAIN 11 BETWEEN SEA-LAX, WILL NOT OPERATE UNTIL 2ND FEBRUARY

**NO ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION IS BEING OFFERED FOR CANCELLED

TRAINS**

THESE ALTERATIONS ARE SUJECT TO CHANGE, AND TRAVEL TIMES WILL BE

LONGER

 

[AlanB]

Apparently someone at Amtrak didn't read the special advisory, since it appears that Arrow has been blanked through half of February. One can't book any dates prior to the 16th of February.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I myself fear that this may follow the pattern of the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans with a de facto discontinued service.

Wow. So you think travel between KFS and SEA will be discontinued, or the whole line? I thought the CS was supposed to be one of Amtrak's better lines, and since they're in the middle of refurbishing the Pacific Parlour Cars, they seem to be investing in the line.

Either way, I guess I'd better wait until mid February before booking a trip on the CS!

 

[AlanB]

I myself fear that this may follow the pattern of the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans with a de facto discontinued service.

Wow. So you think travel between KFS and SEA will be discontinued, or the whole line? I thought the CS was supposed to be one of Amtrak's better lines, and since they're in the middle of refurbishing the Pacific Parlour Cars, they seem to be investing in the line.

Either way, I guess I'd better wait until mid February before booking a trip on the CS!

I'm pretty sure that we're not looking at the same time of thing, especially since in this case it would be the entire route that's being cancelled. And that would not make any sense considering that Amtrak has just spent big money in preparation for upgrading the service this spring.

And terminating service in KFS would increase Amtrak's expenses, since they'd have to setup maintenance facilities in KFS. In the case of the Sunset, Amtrak didn't need new facilities in NOL. It would also force Amtrak to bus pax in the other direction who are connecting from the EB to the CS.

 

[sechs]

They should run it to OKJ or EMY and turn there. Seems to me that they've done something like that before.

 

[GG-1]

Something wrong here, Cancel a route totally when ?80% is operable. What are they not saying?

 

[the_traveler]

They should run it to OKJ or EMY and turn there. Seems to me that they've done something like that before.

I agree! LAX-EMY would make a lot of sense - they have bases in both LAX and EMY, they could easily turn the equipment AND it may even be on time!

But "making sense" and "Amtrak" - can those be used in the same sentence? :lol:

 

[AlanB]

They should run it to OKJ or EMY and turn there. Seems to me that they've done something like that before.

I agree! LAX-EMY would make a lot of sense - they have bases in both LAX and EMY, they could easily turn the equipment AND it may even be on time!

But "making sense" and "Amtrak" - can those be used in the same sentence? :lol:

I'm not sure if they have room in the yard for the train, since they already have to deal with the CZ and the Capital Corridor trains. Plus one now has to put up the crew for the night in a place where Amtrak doesn't have a long term contract for said rooms. And then there is the question of just how many people would be served by running the train between those two cities vs. how many continue past that point.

By cancelling the train outright, even though it won't make some people happy, all Amtrak has to do is issue refunds. If they run the train part way, then they have to provide alternate service beyond EMY.

 

[wayman]

This mudslide is the second major disaster to hit the CS in the past few months (the other being the huge flood). I haven't paid particular attention to the Coast Starlight, or Pacific Northwest weather/disasters, in the past. Is it highly unusual to have even one event of this magnitude affect the CS, much less two in succession? Or are mudslides an annual occurrence, like the state of California catching fire?

 

[Falco]

UPDATE:

Since I have reservations on #11 from LAX->SJC on the 23rd and a return on the 28th, this is of concern to me.

I called Amtrak and spoke to Kimberly who was very nice and helpful, she made a few calls and said that as of now, the train will run from LA and terminate in Chemult, OR. and vica-versa, so if your within those stations, you *should* be in the clear. This is as of 11:18PM JAN 22 Pacific Time.

 

[PRR 60]

...Plus one now has to put up the crew for the night in a place where Amtrak doesn't have a long term contract for said rooms. And then there is the question of just how many people would be served by running the train between those two cities vs. how many continue past that point.
By cancelling the train outright, even though it won't make some people happy, all Amtrak has to do is issue refunds. If they run the train part way, then they have to provide alternate service beyond EMY.

Amtrak overnights the Zephyr crew in Oakland, so crew accommodations would not be an issue. Amtrak can truncate a route and not provide alternate transportation. They did just that with the Zephyr a couple of years ago when it ran only between Chicago and Denver for about a month. No alternate transportation was offered west of Denver

However, losing the Starlight between LAX and OKJ is all that critical. From Amtrak's point of view, they can offer LAX-Bay Area service via bus and the San Joaquin's. The Surfliner serves as far north as San Luis Obispo. The Capitols as far south as San Jose. The only hole is between SLO and SJC, and that is not that big a deal. I think it would have been preferable to continue to operate a train on the coast between LAX and Oakland, even if coach only, but it is not a huge issue.

 

[MrFSS]

A little more info about the mud-slide is HERE.

 

[PRR 60]

UPDATE:Since I have reservations on #11 from LAX->SJC on the 23rd and a return on the 28th, this is of concern to me.

I called Amtrak and spoke to Kimberly who was very nice and helpful, she made a few calls and said that as of now, the train will run from LA and terminate in Chemult, OR. and vica-versa, so if your within those stations, you *should* be in the clear. This is as of 11:18PM JAN 22 Pacific Time.

I would check again about your return trip. While your northbound #14 (not 11) will operate LAX to SJC on 1/23, the return on the 28th is shown as cancelled.

 

[wayman]

A little more info about the mud-slide is HERE.

Oof! 3,000 feet of track under 20 feet of mud, trees, and snow? At least floodwater drains away on its own, albeit at a slow rate, and it's possible to erect temporary embankments around track or major highways and pump water out of an area (or at least I guess that's possible). Where do you put something on the order of hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of solid muck? Does it all have to get taken out one truck at a time, regardless of where it eventually goes? That sounds a lot more time- and effort-intensive than clearing out floodwater. (Recovering from major flood damage, that takes ages, of course. But physically removing the water so transportation lines can operate seems like it would be much easier.)

 

[rtabern]

I hope it's up and running by early March...

I'm going CHI-PDX-LAX then.

 

[wayman]

Where do you put something on the order of hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of solid muck? Does it all have to get taken out one truck at a time, regardless of where it eventually goes?

Actually, I suppose the more efficient solution (transportation ton-mile-wise, at least) would be for the UP to run special "muck trains". Bring in several backhoes, and push trains of gondolas up the track to the edge of the muck, load 'em up, pull 'em out. No road access required at all if you can bring the backhoes in on flatcars. Assuming logistics of this would work for the UP, of course, but I assume this line is a freight corridor and is something of a priority for them...?

 

[Falco]

Strange, my first true long distance trip and all this mess happens.

Currently on the #14 and its raining and its beyond awesome. and other than no #11 to come home to, its an awesome trip. Since just being on this, I know that a lot of air travel will be replaced.

 

[Eris]

Is this mentioned anywhere on amtrak.com?

 

[PRR 60]

Is this mentioned anywhere on amtrak.com?

Sadly, no. One of Amtrak constant failings, seemingly impossible to correct, is their inability to provide any timely information about service disruptions. The Starlight cancellations have been posted on the Arrow CRS for station agent and travel agent information, but the public website makes no mention of the total suspension of service on one of Amtrak's most popular long distance trains.
Here in the east we know the most timely and detailed information about service problems on the NEC comes not from Amtrak but from the commuter agencies that share the corridor. If a person is travelling Amtrak on the Corridor, a quick look at the NJ Transit, SEPTA, MARC, Metro North or MBTA web pages will tell you far more about any possible delays than looking at the Amtrak page.

 

[PRR 60]

There are some aerial photos of the slide posted at another rail discussion site, and this is one huge mess. I'm a registered engineer who does geotechnical design (soils, rock and foundations) in conjunction with my structural role. Based on those photos and what I know of the soils and geology of the area, this slide will take a long, long time to be cleaned up. It appears unstable as it sits and may have placed the UP roadbed in the area in jeopardy of being completely lost.

My thoughts are with the UP civil engineers and geologists who are faced with this calamity. I would not know where to start other than to assemble an army of pile drivers, grout injectors, and earth movers and hope for dry weather and a lot of luck. They have to stabilize the entire side of a mountain above and below the tracks before even attempting to re-establish the roadbed and rail. I hope I'm overly pessimistic, but from what I see we are talking weeks, not days, and hopefully only weeks, not months.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

is this mentioned anywhere on amtrak.com?Sadly, no. One of Amtrak constant failings, seemingly impossible to correct, is their inability to provide any timely information about service disruptions. The Starlight cancellations have been posted on the Arrow CRS for station agent and travel agent information, but the public website makes no mention of the total suspension of service on one of Amtrak's most popular long distance trains.

Here is what is on the Amtrak web site front page right now:

News Coast Starlight Service Disruption — Train Service Suspended Due to Massive Mudslides Across Railroad Tracks North of Chemult, Oregon
---And here's the actual notice in full: ---

Service Alert: Coast Starlight Service Disruption — Train Service Suspended Due to Massive Mudslides Across Railroad Tracks North of Chemult, Oregon

January 23, 2008

4:30 pm PST

Due to massive mudslides over railroad tracks north of Chemult, Oregon on January 19, Amtrak Coast Starlight service will be disrupted January 24 through January 31, with no alternate transportation provided. The Union Pacific Railroad has suspended all railroad traffic through the area.

As a result, the following operation plan is in effect:

* The northbound Coast Starlight (Train 14) is canceled from Los Angeles to Seattle from January 24 through January 31*.

* The southbound Coast Starlight (Train 11) is canceled from Seattle to Los Angeles from January 25 through February 1*.

*These dates may be extended.

Although the Coast Starlight is canceled in its entirety between Los Angeles and Seattle during this period, Amtrak does offer service on other trains and motorcoaches between Southern California and the Pacific Northwest. For travel throughout California, passengers may make motorcoach connections at Los Angeles Union Station to the San Joaquins train service for travel between Bakersfield and Sacramento/Oakland.

Passengers may also take the Pacific Surfliner trains between Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo. At San Luis Obispo, they may take a motorcoach connection to the Capitol Corridor train service in San Jose for travel to Sacramento/Auburn and points in between. Amtrak offers a motorcoach connection between Sacramento and Medford, Ore.

For travel throughout the Pacific Northwest, passengers may take the Amtrak Cascades service from Eugene, Ore. to Vancouver, BC.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

For travel throughout the Pacific Northwest, passengers may take the Amtrak Cascades service from Eugene, Ore. to Vancouver, BC.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

 

[Guest_redsandal_*]

We are traveling this Saturday, leaving ABQ and arriving in LAX on Sunday morning, to p/u the CS to Santa Barbara. Just got a call an hour ago from the Amtrak agent telling us that the CS is cancelled and we will use the Pacific Surfliner.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

There are some aerial photos of the slide posted at another rail discussion site, and this is one huge mess. I'm a registered engineer who does geotechnical design (soils, rock and foundations) in conjunction with my structural role. Based on those photos and what I know of the soils and geology of the area, this slide will take a long, long time to be cleaned up. It appears unstable as it sits and may have placed the UP roadbed in the area in jeopardy of being completely lost.
My thoughts are with the UP civil engineers and geologists who are faced with this calamity. I would not know where to start other than to assemble an army of pile drivers, grout injectors, and earth movers and hope for dry weather and a lot of luck. They have to stabilize the entire side of a mountain above and below the tracks before even attempting to re-establish the roadbed and rail. I hope I'm overly pessimistic, but from what I see we are talking weeks, not days, and hopefully only weeks, not months.

Oh, come on. Just import a bunch of Chinese laborers, give them shovels, wheelbarrows, and black powder, and the line would be open in a matter of days. Ask the Big Four!

 

[sechs]

However, losing the Starlight between LAX and OKJ is all that critical. From Amtrak's point of view, they can offer LAX-Bay Area service via bus and the San Joaquin's. The Surfliner serves as far north as San Luis Obispo. The Capitols as far south as San Jose. The only hole is between SLO and SJC, and that is not that big a deal.

Right. You ride the bus between San Jose and SLO and tell me it's "not that big a deal."

 

[sechs]

Oh, come on. Just import a bunch of Chinese laborers, give them shovels, wheelbarrows, and black powder, and the line would be open in a matter of days. Ask the Big Four!

Racist comments aside, do you really thinking blowing-up mud is going to get somewhere?