Cross Country Cafe

[haolerider]

I saw that the CCC is used on the CL. How does the CCC differ from a typical dining car? Does anyone have a picture or layout they would be willing to share? We will be traveling on the CL next year. We have traveled on Auto Train and was wondering what to expect that will be different on the CL relative to dining.
Thanks!

Bob

Any thoughts on the above?

Just one~ YUK !!! A complete waste of money. If they were attempting to tee off the crews and pax at the same time they accomplished their goal.

Actually, this is not correct. The one car - Cross Country Cafe - made more money than the previous two cars - diner and lounge car combined - with less labor costs. Also, the results of a passenger survey - 600 riders of the City of New Orleans - showed that 77% of the passengers surveyed either preferred the Cross Country Cafe versus the former dining car or felt it was just as good. More money, less costs and extremely high passenger satisfaction. I find that not to be a waste of money. Facts are facts!

 

[PetalumaLoco]

I saw that the CCC is used on the CL. How does the CCC differ from a typical dining car? Does anyone have a picture or layout they would be willing to share? We will be traveling on the CL next year. We have traveled on Auto Train and was wondering what to expect that will be different on the CL relative to dining.
Thanks!

Bob

Any thoughts on the above?

I rode the CL about 3 weeks ago, CHI to WAS. No problems, no complaints. Seating was a little weird but staff handled the customers just fine. Menu ok, better than the LSL, almost as good as the CZ.

 

[had8ley]

I saw that the CCC is used on the CL. How does the CCC differ from a typical dining car? Does anyone have a picture or layout they would be willing to share? We will be traveling on the CL next year. We have traveled on Auto Train and was wondering what to expect that will be different on the CL relative to dining.
Thanks!

Bob

Any thoughts on the above?

Just one~ YUK !!! A complete waste of money. If they were attempting to tee off the crews and pax at the same time they accomplished their goal.

Actually, this is not correct. The one car - Cross Country Cafe - made more money than the previous two cars - diner and lounge car combined - with less labor costs. Also, the results of a passenger survey - 600 riders of the City of New Orleans - showed that 77% of the passengers surveyed either preferred the Cross Country Cafe versus the former dining car or felt it was just as good. More money, less costs and extremely high passenger satisfaction. I find that not to be a waste of money. Facts are facts!

Anybody survey the crews? And how many coach pax have been turned away from a diner meal since the inception of the CCC? (How many AU posters have written this one up? There have been too many stories of lines running into the coach behind the CCC.) I betcha you don't have those "facts." I smell a three day old mullet in the pax survey~ were these repeat riders or just 600 random riders who may, or may not, have ridden in a CCC for the first time? Last but not least how long will it take to make up the 100k it cost to convert the cars? Sounds like the old Amtrak shell game all over again.

You may want to read posts 2,3 & 5 under "City of New Orleans CCC questions" to get some real opinions. Sure don't have to go far to get the real skinny. Love to know what it cost to survey 600 people to make something look good.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Don't be so cynical, Jay. They do look nice, and some people just don't appreciate a good thing when they see it. Remember, you are talking about the American people.

 

[had8ley]

I'm trying my hardest to be realistic. And I bet a cheese steak or a lobster that none of my questions have an answer. Seems to me we're avoiding crew input for whatever reason.

Perhaps a further explanation will clarify my position. I have held a union card since I was a fireman on the old NYC. I spent twenty plus years as Safety Committee chairman at a class 1 RR and hold a degree in Labor Safety and Health. That being said I hope you can understand my position.

One of the most glaring deficiencies I can see in the CCC is the chef is by himself on the entire bottom floor of the CCC. What provision has Amtrak made in case he is knocked out after hitting a rough spot in the track at 79 mph? With just two people upstairs it might take a while before someone realizes orders aren't coming up like they should and walk down to investigate. If our chef happened to be cutting something up and fell on a knife he could have bled to death in the time it took to discover his plight. I've observed managers implementing the CCC and telling the crews that everything will be OK with the new system. The same day, on a return trip in the CCC, not one coach pax got to eat in the diner. I don't feel that coach pax should be shuffled to the lounge for a sodium bomb hot dog out of a nuclear device heating apparatus. They are not second class pax and deserve the same rights sleeper pax are afforded. Yes, I'm a unionist and always will be BUT I've walked the walk on a lot of these subjects and seen Amtrak management at work. I seriously doubt that many of them would make a week on a Class 1. Now, let me go put on my suit of armor so I can with stand the rocking and egging.

 

[AlanB]

One of the most glaring deficiencies I can see in the CCC is the chef is by himself on the entire bottom floor of the CCC. What provision has Amtrak made in case he is knocked out after hitting a rough spot in the track at 79 mph? With just two people upstairs it might take a while before someone realizes orders aren't coming up like they should and walk down to investigate. If our chef happened to be cutting something up and fell on a knife he could have bled to death in the time it took to discover his plight.

This issue has nothing to do with a CCC, the same problem exists under SDS in a full dining car. I'm not suggesting that it's not an important consideration, it most certainly is, but it isn't something unique to the CCC.

By the way, I suspect that those survey numbers mentioned above come from Amtrak's ongoing survey program that anyone and everyone whose taken a ride on Amtrak recently can participate in.

 

[had8ley]

One of the most glaring deficiencies I can see in the CCC is the chef is by himself on the entire bottom floor of the CCC. What provision has Amtrak made in case he is knocked out after hitting a rough spot in the track at 79 mph? With just two people upstairs it might take a while before someone realizes orders aren't coming up like they should and walk down to investigate. If our chef happened to be cutting something up and fell on a knife he could have bled to death in the time it took to discover his plight.

This issue has nothing to do with a CCC, the same problem exists under SDS in a full dining car. I'm not suggesting that it's not an important consideration, it most certainly is, but it isn't something unique to the CCC.

By the way, I suspect that those survey numbers mentioned above come from Amtrak's ongoing survey program that anyone and everyone whose taken a ride on Amtrak recently can participate in.

Alan;

My point being he's by himself in a converted diner; under SDS Heritage diner cooks would be on the same level. I get your point; I'm just trying to show that there is not much apparent thought process given to employees safety whether it be SDS, CCC or Diner-lite! As for the survey it is what it is but I don't see posters on here clammering to ride a CCC after having experienced a real diner so your right on target with where the "survey" probably came from.

 

[AlanB]

One of the most glaring deficiencies I can see in the CCC is the chef is by himself on the entire bottom floor of the CCC. What provision has Amtrak made in case he is knocked out after hitting a rough spot in the track at 79 mph? With just two people upstairs it might take a while before someone realizes orders aren't coming up like they should and walk down to investigate. If our chef happened to be cutting something up and fell on a knife he could have bled to death in the time it took to discover his plight.

This issue has nothing to do with a CCC, the same problem exists under SDS in a full dining car. I'm not suggesting that it's not an important consideration, it most certainly is, but it isn't something unique to the CCC.

By the way, I suspect that those survey numbers mentioned above come from Amtrak's ongoing survey program that anyone and everyone whose taken a ride on Amtrak recently can participate in.

Alan;

My point being he's by himself in a converted diner; under SDS Heritage diner cooks would be on the same level. I get your point; I'm just trying to show that there is not much apparent thought process given to employees safety whether it be SDS, CCC or Diner-lite! As for the survey it is what it is but I don't see posters on here clammering to ride a CCC after having experienced a real diner so your right on target with where the "survey" probably came from.

No Jay, SDS does not imply a single level Heritage diner. The Sunset Limited, Coast Starlight, SW Chief, Zephyr all use SDS, as well as most of the single level trains. Therefore at time of low ridership, on any of the above 4 trains mentioned it is possible to find only a single cook downstairs in the lower level of a Superliner Dining car.

 

[AlanB]

Just to be clear Jay, SDS is only the plan that cut staffing in all types of dining cars, dropped cloth tablecloths, dropped glassware, went to more pre-prepared foods rather than prepped and cooked on board. SDS has nothing to do with what type of food service car you are in. In fact the only two LD's that don't use the full SDS plan for their food service cars are the Auto Train and the Empire Builder. Otherwise every other LD uses some form or variation of SDS practices depending on what type of food service car they have.