CUS: Security, Privacy, and You

[Devil's Advocate]

Oh Lordy, here we go again. You want privacy? Travel in a privately owned vehicle - not public transportation. Just my 2¢ worth.

Were you confused as to what this thread was about when you chose to click on it? Or do you normally go around seeking out topics you don't care about so you can tell everyone involved that it's a meaningless discussion? I've been questioned and searched in a private vehicle on multiple occasions. Maybe you've never driven within a hundred miles of the border but your opinion would struggle to be worth dos centavos down here.

And that's about all that's worth. Our rights to protection against search and seizure don't end when we walk out the front door, sorry.

Shouldn't that be "illegal search and seizure"?

The term that defines the legality is unreasonable and the basis that defines reasonable is ultimately up to the citizenry. Not only the authority worshiping citizens like yourself, but also the liberty supporting citizens like those who started and contributed this thread before you showed up to remind everyone how little you care about this.

 

[jis]

^^ This. Too bad there is no way to indicate "LIKE" around here.

 

[Ryan]

When DA and I agree on something, you can bet pretty safely that you're on the wrong side of the argument.

I'm glad that you care so little about your Constitutional rights that you feel like bragging about it on the Internet. Some of us haven't quite rolled over and given up yet, and for that I am thankful.

 

[jis]

Don't know about TSA, but the last time I entered the US on the Adirondack the Customs crew was grilling all the college students. I was coming back from a business trip so I was wearing chinos and a blazer. I flashed my passport and they moved on.

Those CBP blokes at Rouse's Point are sometimes weird. One guy flipped through my Passport and asked me if I had been to any exciting places recently. I said "No". He looked at me sternly and asked "Israel is not interesting?". I said "First time maybe, but tenth time, No!" Upon which he rolled his eyes and handed me back my Passport and carried on to the next person.

 

[HenryK]

Lordy, I just knew that the *ssh*l* quotient would be high in this thread.

 

[Ryan]

Other than calling people names, do you have anything meaningful to contribute to the conversation?

 

[HenryK]

Stung, Ryan? Did you think I meant you?

 

[Ryan]

Actually, I have no idea who you're talking about, given your post was devoid of any actual content.

 

[erierail]

Kinda of agree, Amtrak I'd far less stringent then flying. Get over it or drive.

 

[CelticWhisper]

Like I said in my initial post, I left the airlines because of the stringency of security theater at airports. From where I'm standing, every time I read about thing like what crescent-zephyr described, it feel like that draconian "anything for safety" mentality is trying to creep closer. Amtrak is, thus far, largely unsullied by security theater and my concern is over whether I can still rely on that being the case. Put plainly, I don't really appreciate being told to "get over" something that is A. a major source of anxiety for me and B. something that flies in the face of my principles (and those of a lot of other civil libertarian-minded travelers).

 

[zephyr17]

Why don't you wait until something actually happens to complain?

Besides, it is a contractual issue, really. It is part of Amtrak's conditions of carriage. It isn't a 4th amendment issue. Amtrak contractually has the right to search if it wants to, it really doesn't need cause. Since it is already in the conditions of carriage, and you feel so strongly about it, you probably should not implicitly accept those conditions by riding.

 

[Montreal Ltd]

I found Rouses Point quite friendly on the train, but the one time I took the bus it was quite different. Everyone off the bus! Probably smelled pot. Oh yes it was below zero F, and 430am. We went into the shed where Canada Customs checked every single bag. I was near the end of the line and the guy gave me the "dumb female" look. I opened the bag and the agent started leafing through a notebook I had on top. He stepped back visibly astonished, shut the bag, and said "OK you're through." Double integrals and hyperbolic functions was not what he expected!

 

[JoeBas]

If Amtrak wants to search, they can.

If Reno 911 Law Enforcement wants to, get a warrant or f#&k off.

 

[Manny T]

Is anyone aware of a 9/11 style attack on Amtrak? I know there have been horrific events on aircraft galore, buses in London, Israel and elsewhere, a train station in Spain, and even a cruise liner (if the name Leon Klinghoffer means anything to anyone). Could it possibly be that Amtrak and law enforcement are doing something right? Why would any of us who love to ride Amtrak--and incidentally benefit from whatever security is provided--object to complying with their legitimate requests?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Is anyone aware of a 9/11 style attack on Amtrak? I know there have been horrific events on aircraft galore, buses in London, Israel and elsewhere, a train station in Spain, and even a cruise liner (if the name Leon Klinghoffer means anything to anyone). Could it possibly be that Amtrak and law enforcement are doing something right? Why would any of us who love to ride Amtrak--and incidentally benefit from whatever security is provided--object to complying with their legitimate requests?

These aren't searches for weapons, they are searches for drugs. I would think the random TSA luggage screenings are more for weapons and other prohibited items.

 

[neroden]

It's about time we legalized possession and sale of all drugs nationwide. They're widely used as an excuse by so-called "law enforcement" for harassment, theft, and fishing expeditions. We need to take away that excuse, so that when they harass people it's completely obvious that it's just harassment.

 

[Manny T]

The motivation for the search isn't really too important, since a search for drugs may well find a weapon or device, and the fact of the search is (hopefully) a deterrent to both.

If we legalized drugs nationwide, I have enough "confidence" in law enforcement to believe they would find another rationale for their fishing expeditions. If we should legalize drugs, it should be for more substantive reasons, and not just to reduce the incidence of searches, although that would be a good fringe benefit.

 

[neroden]

The main reason local PDs loooove using drugs as the excuse for fishing expeditions is "forfeiture" laws which allow them to steal people's money if they claim that the money was involved in drugs. Reforming those would probably help reduce the fishing expeditions by local PDs because their personal pecuinary motivation for illegal searches would be removed.

It's also exceptionally easy for corrupt PDs to plant drugs on people when they want to frame people. It's possible to plant weapons, and some PDs are well documented to do so, but it's harder for them, and it's easier to prove that it was a plant.

 

[JoeBas]

Is anyone aware of a 9/11 style attack on Amtrak?

No, I'm not aware of anyone hijacking trains and flying them into buildings. Would you please illuminate for me how in the name of the primary Greek Deity's elimination orifice that would be possible???

Could it possibly be that Amtrak and law enforcement are doing something right? Why would any of us who love to ride Amtrak--and incidentally benefit from whatever security is provided--object to complying with their legitimate requests?

Or could it possibly be that the big bad bogeyman ISN'T around every corner, and we should stop catering to bedwetters who would be better off hiding under their bed sucking their thumb?...

 

[Ryan]

If only people understood the difference between correlation and causation...

 

[CelticWhisper]

So it's T Minus 3 days and of course Brussels had to happen. (expletive deleted) ISIS. And, well, (expletive also deleted) my nerves for that matter. Anyone transit CHI, WAS or ATL in the past week? What do things look like?

 

[Ryan]

WAS has been pretty normal. Maybe a few more guys with guns hanging around, but nothing intrusive.

 

[CelticWhisper]

WAS has been pretty normal. Maybe a few more guys with guns hanging around, but nothing intrusive.

That's good to hear. ATL is smallish, isn't it? Less likelihood of any presence there?

 

[tim49424]

So it's T Minus 3 days and of course Brussels had to happen. (expletive deleted) ISIS. And, well, (expletive also deleted) my nerves for that matter. Anyone transit CHI, WAS or ATL in the past week? What do things look like?

I'll be in CHI Sunday....headed to and from MKE. I doubt anything has changed but if it has, I'll post an update.

 

[neroden]

Thank goodness most of the US seems to have finally stopped losing its mind every time there's a terrorist attack. Frankly, New York City never lost its mind, but a lot of the rest of the US did.