CUS: Security, Privacy, and You

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CelticWhisper

Service Attendant
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Jul 11, 2012
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So it's another day, another Amtrak trip, and another set of CW's frayed nerves over traveling with privacy intact. I was reading the thread about the new CUS Metro Lounge and saw crescent-zephyr's post about lots of search tables being set up and having baggage searched onboard the train(!), in a roomette? I'm leaving from CUS in early April and going to ATL by way of WAS, and that was not fun to read about. I'm traveling in a roomette myself and will be (presumably) boarding from the Metro Lounge and not the regular departure gates, so theoretically wouldn't encounter any searches for coach passengers.

I'm not okay with searches - not of my possessions and certainly not of my person. Amtrak Police were playing security-theater in PVD last August, making a show of checking the outsides of bags for explosive residue, and that was unsettling enough by itself. As it's apparently my lot in life to be "that guy" about travel security, and because I do take this stuff super seriously ever since having sworn off flying...can anyone speak to the present state of the (Chicago) Union (Station)? Thoughts on how best to protect my privacy if I should need to?

Thanks.
 
The odds are that you will not have a problem. However, if Amtrak Police insist on a search, the Terms of Transportation that are part of the contract between you and Amtrak insists that you comply. If you refuse to comply, Amtrak can refuse you transportation and will fully refund your fare.

Terms of Transportation:

Reservations must be made when required, and tickets are not transferable. If you do not board your train as booked, your entire reservation is subject to cancellation. In order to ensure the quality of travel and safety and security of its passengers, Amtrak may refuse to carry passengers:

...

- Who refuse to consent to Amtrak security inspections of persons and/or baggage onboard Amtrak trains and/or at designated areas, such as train platforms and passenger boarding or waiting areas.

Amtrak employees or other authorized carrier representatives may remove such a passenger from the train at any inhabited place, as necessary under the circumstances, for any of the above reasons.
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Those rules are spelled out on the Amtrak.com Safety and Security page:

Numerous behind-the-scenes and front-line security measures are in place to ensure passenger security, including Amtrak Police Department uniformed police officers and Special Operations Units, random passenger and carry-on baggage screening and inspections, K-9 units, checked baggage screening and onboard ID checks.


Random screening and inspection of passengers and their personal items will be completed as quickly as possible — usually in less than a minute. Passengers failing to consent to security procedures will be denied access to trains and refused carriage, and a refund will be offered.
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Having said that, I have traveled Amtrak for years and have never been a selectee for any special security actions. However, if that did happen, I would either go along with it or not travel. It's simply not a winnable battle.
 
Nothing out of the ordinary experienced or seen by us at CHI on 3/2 or 3/10. Info monitors around ticket counters were showing captioned clips of the "you may be asked" procedures, featuring the aforementioned tables, plus explosives detection wipes and K9 use.
 
I'm not a fan of it myself!

For what it's worth, I was traveling on the Zephyr from Chicago to Salt Lake City... apparently that's suspicious? In all my years riding Amtrak I've never seen random searches on trains traveling East of Chicago. It's always been on the Zephyr and Chief. Once, years ago, the Border Patrol did a search of the Lake Shore Limited but all they asked was "are you a citizen of the USA?" (didn't ask for ID.. just asked the question and went on.. and this was years ago, not sure if that's still practiced.)

Personally... I don't mind the search itself as much as the questioning. "Why are you traveling? Where do you live? Why did you choose to take the train" - I'm not joking... the Amtrak police asked me why I chose to take the train. Talk about a welcome on board. I would rather they just show up and say "We are here to conduct a random luggage screening" - just do it and be done.
 
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Thanks, PRR. Part of my problem is that I'm extremely strongly opposed to it on principle, but am also cursed wtih a timid and anxious disposition. So I feel like I'd end up kicking myself for "folding" even in a no-win situation like you described because principle dictates I should at least speak up. Does anyone know what they think about filming interaction? I know it's a hot-button issue in a lot of regions/cities/states, but don't know what APD thinks of it. I have Ustream, Geavi, and one or two other live-upload smarphone apps for recording but again, anxiety gets the worst of me and I feel like I'd be afraid to actually use them.
 
C855B: Okay, seen those before and I just tune 'em out. "If I See Something...I'll Mind My Own Business" tends to be my inner monologue.

crescent-zephyr: I've heard that a lot about the CZ, though never about the SWC until now. Makes me glad I decided to drive for my upcoming trip to Kansas City. Is it a roomette thing? I'm happy to spring for a full bedroom if it means I'm more likely to be left alone, assuming I ever ride those routes (which I hope to, as I've heard the scenery is gorgeous).

Another question I forgot to ask - is this something where you can initially refuse and calmly (in my case, "calmly" comes with prescription assistance) state your objection on 4th-amendment grounds and then do an "if you insist" if they...well, insist? Or is it a "Officer, I object because--" "Get off the train, you're done!" type of deal?
 
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CelticWhisper said:
C855B: Okay, seen those before and I just tune 'em out. "If I See Something...I'll Mind My Own Business" tends to be my inner monologue.

crescent-zephyr: I've heard that a lot about the CZ, though never about the SWC until now. Makes me glad I decided to drive for my upcoming trip to Kansas City. Is it a roomette thing? I'm happy to spring for a full bedroom if it means I'm more likely to be left alone, assuming I ever ride those routes (which I hope to, as I've heard the scenery is gorgeous).

Another question I forgot to ask - is this something where you can initially refuse and calmly (in my case, "calmly" comes with prescription assistance) state your objection on 4th-amendment grounds and then do an "if you insist" if they...well, insist? Or is it a "Officer, I object because--" "Get off the train, you're done!" type of deal?
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I've ridden the Zephyr and Chief many times and have only been personally searched the one time at Chicago. However I have seen it happen to other Roomette Passengers on the Zephyr and Chief at other times. I think city pair has something to do with it... usually I ride to Omaha (for work) or to Sacramento or Emeryville if for vacation. I usually travel on AGR points.. this was one of the first times I paid for a trip on the Zephyr, so that might also have something to do with it.

I tried saying no to the search... the officer said "You have a right to deny a search, however I can insist that this luggage be run by a canine team and I can't guarantee that I can arrange that to happen before your train departs." so basically I didn't have a choice at that point. So you might as well just go along with it. Again.. I highly doubt you will run into this on the Capitol.

It's not a roomette or Bedroom thing I don't think... it has to do with age and city pairs. I'm in my late 20's, traveling solo, in a pair of cities that they flag. Simple as that. (at least that's what I told myself).
 
The tipoff seems to be young single males traveling to the regions that those two trains serve in a sleeper.
 
Interesting. I'm 32 and would be doing the entire length of the route, most likely connecting to or from the Coast Starlight as part of an EB<-->CS<-->CZ triangle trip. I know I'm basically asking you to look into a crystal ball, but...do you think that helps my chances of being left in peace?

EDIT: What about attire? I work in IT and so have plenty of slacks, polo shirts, datacenter-vendor-branded fleeces, all kinds of business-casual stuff. Plus business-formal and all-out formal. Is this the kind of thing where I can dress like a corporate stuffed-shirt (pssh, as if I'm not actually) and have them realize I'm obviously not a bomber/drug-runner/whatever they're looking for?
 
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I would think end-to-end would help your chances, as well as being a part of a longer reservation. And by the way... the Zephyr is a must do.. it really is stunning.

The attire may help the actual search and questioning go quicker, but they came straight to my roomette, they had obviously already flagged me before they ever stepped on board.

If it makes you feel any better, last year I rode the Zephyr 4 times, the Chief twice, the City of New Orleans twice, the Starlight, the Empire Builder, and the Capitol, I was only searched that one time.
 
I have only seen "search tables" set up twice.

Once was at the gate at PHL. Out of the 100+ passengers waiting in line to board, only 1 (ONE) passenger was selected to be searched! (Her purse was looked at.)

The other was at MKA (the airport stop). Before the southbound Hiawatha came, TSA set up a desk to check all bags by swabbing the outside for explosive residue. But once the southbound train departed, TSA packed up their stuff and left! (I was on a point run going to MKE then south to CHI at the time, so I saw when they left.)
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Once, years ago, the Border Patrol did a search of the Lake Shore Limited but all they asked was "are you a citizen of the USA?" (didn't ask for ID.. just asked the question and went on.. and this was years ago, not sure if that's still practiced.)
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I was on the Empire Builder eating lunch with another passenger when they put us through this exercise. Officer didn't even change expression when she answered "yes" in an English accent; he just moved on.
 
We've had this subject discussed many times on AU in many threads.

In all my travels on Amtrak since 911,( I've been on every LD Route, the Western Trains many,many times),the most frequent checks of these types by LE has occured in Chicago, Reno,Emeryville, Portland,OR ( they use dogs to sniff luggage and peoole frequently) and NYP and WAS.

The Border Patrol used to frequently board the Sunset Ltd.and the Lake Shore and work the Stations in El Paso,Del Rio and Tucson but I haven't seen them the last few times I rode these trains.

As has been said, your odds are slim that you'll be checked, but if you are just answer their questions, politely ask why you are being singled out ( don't try to chat them up or joke, they don't have a sense of humour), they'll soon be on their way to performing their Security Theater on others.
 
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I thought I had seen in an earlier discussion of searches that a search was much more likely if the passenger had paid for the ticket with cash.
 
The K9 was sniffing my Amtrak logo bag (purchased at the Amtrak online store) this week when I stopped to photograph the Great Hall and The Untouchables Staircase, but I suspect she was excited about the remnants of the Mickey D's sausage biscuit with egg inside. I think most of them are trained to sit down and stare when they alert -- which didn't happen.
 
Don't know about TSA, but the last time I entered the US on the Adirondack the Customs crew was grilling all the college students. I was coming back from a business trip so I was wearing chinos and a blazer. I flashed my passport and they moved on.
 
Edit to remove travel details... traveling in the near future DEN-EMY with a sightseeing day on the other end...

I've already got my "no face" ready if the Reno 911 folks come bugging me, and if they threaten me with the "Canine Conundrum", well, my sightseeing day works just as well in Reno/Tahoe as it does in San Fran.
 
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Oh Lordy, here we go again. You want privacy? Travel in a privately owned vehicle - not public transportation. Just my 2¢ worth.
 
And that's about all that's worth. Our rights to protection against search and seizure don't end when we walk out the front door, sorry.
 
niemi24s said:
Oh Lordy, here we go again. You want privacy? Travel in a privately owned vehicle - not public transportation. Just my 2¢ worth.
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Umm... no? The police and border patrol regularly stop private vehicles for questioning all the time. Pretty much for the same reasons as they question Amtrak travelers. Traveling on a "suspicious" route in a vehicle that "matches the description" of the type they are looking for etc.

I've been questioned by Border Patrol within the state of Texas while in a privately owned vehicle, same thing really. I was traveling with a co-worker and since I wasn't driving I really wasn't questioned that much, but all the same questions "Where are you going? why are you traveling? can we scan your luggage (they had a dog that just sniffed around the luggage). etc."
 
niemi24s said:
JoeBas said:
And that's about all that's worth. Our rights to protection against search and seizure don't end when we walk out the front door, sorry.
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Shouldn't that be "illegal search and seizure"?
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Actually, it's "Unreasonable", but there's nothing reasonable OR legal about randomness, or profiling. A big part of why they get away with this is they make it "inconvenient" to stand up for yourself, and Americans these days are all about the easy way.
 
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