Delaware-Analysis concludes resort train a costly way to go

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A similar situation occured with Atlantic City, NJ.

A special train (ACES) was built for the line, but it only

ran for one year - on Friday, Saturday & Sunday.

I did not hear the financial implications, but I can surmize

there were significant losses. The casinos were paying

the bill.
 
Shanghai said:
A similar situation occured with Atlantic City, NJ.A special train (ACES) was built for the line, but it only

ran for one year - on Friday, Saturday & Sunday.

I did not hear the financial implications, but I can surmize

there were significant losses. The casinos were paying

the bill.
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It actually ran from summer 2009 to summer 2012, with a several month break during the 2011-12 winter.

It was never intended to make money by itself and was known to be a three year trial run funded by CRDA and a few individual Casinos. The contract was not renewed, which would suggest as Shanghai says, that it did not live upto the expectation of the paymasters. I have no idea what the paymasters were expecting. :)

more information can be found in the Wikipedia Article on the subject.
 
I live in Ocean City and grew up here. My grandfather used to be the station agent there before the 1933 hurricane took out the railroad bridge across the bay, ending train service.

All my life I have wished that we could have trains back again here. I'm just about old enough to go on Social Security (not a kid); we've always had to drive more than a hundred miles in any direction just to get near a passenger train. I really envy those folks who live close to Amtrak service.

Don't suppose it will happen in my lifetime, but I can continue to dream and hope!

PaulS
 
PaulS said:
I live in Ocean City and grew up here. My grandfather used to be the station agent there before the 1933 hurricane took out the railroad bridge across the bay, ending train service.
All my life I have wished that we could have trains back again here. I'm just about old enough to go on Social Security (not a kid); we've always had to drive more than a hundred miles in any direction just to get near a passenger train. I really envy those folks who live close to Amtrak service.

Don't suppose it will happen in my lifetime, but I can continue to dream and hope!

PaulS
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Welcome to Amtrak Unlimited!

It sure would be great to be able to take the train to the Delmarva beaches, though with the Chesapeake Bay in the way, it would be a round about trip.

Where was the station in Ocean City? Wasn't that the same storm that opened the channel between OC and Assateague Island?
 
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Per the Amtrak town hall meeting, five trains in each direction will give people a real transportation choice. When you get a line up to 10 run a day that's when the people start using in droves.

Why do people pay for these studies on branch line that will require a massive amount of capital to rebuilding the track, but only study the amount of people that would ride the train at one trip each way daily.

Is a fake study? Done by someone who does not want the service?

Why can we not see a study that has a part "A" that show the cost of building the station, and tracks. A part "B" showing the 5 trains in each directions, and 1 train in each direction with ridership numbers and cost of service.

I know stop thinking you blow a fuse....
 
To The Davy Crockett:

Thanks very much for your kind welcome; I've lurked here for several years and just recently joined up. In answer to your question, the train station in Ocean City was on Philadelphia Avenue between Wicomico and Worcester Streets, I believe, and yes, the 1933 storm was the one which cut the inlet, about two blocks to the south of the station. I understand there was a steamboat from Baltimore to Kent Island at Love Point, and from there my Dad said the trains made pretty good time down to the ocean. The men used to let him ride around in the switch engines when he was a boy. Next he carried telegrams because my grandfather was also the telegrapher (had a remote sounder in the house which went all night...) Next he got a job cleaning out the Pullman cars for the return trip, but that didn't last long. He wouldn't say exactly why except that it wasn't very pleasant. That was before there was even a highway bridge to town. The RR bridge was planked over and the old flivvers ran across, being pretty careful to check that no smoke plume was in sight.
 
PaulS said:
To The Davy Crockett:
Thanks very much for your kind welcome; I've lurked here for several years and just recently joined up. In answer to your question, the train station in Ocean City was on Philadelphia Avenue between Wicomico and Worcester Streets, I believe, and yes, the 1933 storm was the one which cut the inlet, about two blocks to the south of the station. I understand there was a steamboat from Baltimore to Kent Island at Love Point, and from there my Dad said the trains made pretty good time down to the ocean. The men used to let him ride around in the switch engines when he was a boy. Next he carried telegrams because my grandfather was also the telegrapher (had a remote sounder in the house which went all night...) Next he got a job cleaning out the Pullman cars for the return trip, but that didn't last long. He wouldn't say exactly why except that it wasn't very pleasant. That was before there was even a highway bridge to town. The RR bridge was planked over and the old flivvers ran across, being pretty careful to check that no smoke plume was in sight.
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Thanks for the information!

In looking for a picture of the old station online I came across the fact that you can still take the train to Ocean City from ALX :excl: ...Picking the random date of 3/26, and for a fare as low as $123.00, one can take a Regional to BWI and then catch a Thruway Bus to the 'train station' at OCM, which is located on the mainland at the West Ocean City Park and Ride.

Yeah, somehow it lacks something. :eek:

The idea of taking a boat from WAS, or ALX to Kent Island sounds nice, but in reality would take forever, but taking the train to say Camden Station on MARC's Camden Line and then taking a boat from the inner harbor to Kent Island, where one could catch a train to OC, while still round about, sure sounds appealing. Maybe someday.

BTW, eventually I did find this picture:

5756414971_0dca03644e_z.jpg
 
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To answer the question on studies: For the most part, studies seem to work under the assumption that only one to three trains per day will be run during the initial service, with possible expansions from there. There are a whole host of reasons for this (operating expenses, equipment issues, etc.) I've actually never seen a proposed (non-commuter, government-subsidized, and not a major HSR plan) rail service where the plan was to seriously dump 5-10x daily trains on a corridor in the first year or two and just see what happens.

If nothing else, part of the reason definitely has to do with a state not wanting to be stuck with a half-dozen equipment sets they can't use; on an 8-car Regional basis, that would be somewhere around $100-150 million in losses to deal with. But there's also the fact that improvements tend to run $100m/slot as a rule, so for a 6x daily service you'd be looking at $600m in trackwork plus $150m in rolling stock (assuming you could get one round trip out of each set)...that's a lot of money to throw down on a bet.
 
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The Davy Crockett, Thanks for posting this picture! Now the Bayrunner Shuttle does indeed run from OC and Salisbury up to BWI rail station, it can be booked from Amtrak's website. I've used it many times and it's very convenient--van service. They are very friendly and cooperative and provide free multi-day parking (in Salisbury), a good deal. It's not a train, but it does work well. Native eastern shoremen like myself had just had to accept some compromises because of the geographic isolation of the Delmarva peninsula, we know that, and things are certainly better than years ago. Just part of the price we pay for living in such a beautiful place. (But I still wish there were a train!)
 
Anderson said:
To answer the question on studies: For the most part, studies seem to work under the assumption that only one to three trains per day will be run during the initial service, with possible expansions from there. There are a whole host of reasons for this (operating expenses, equipment issues, etc.) I've actually never seen a proposed (non-commuter, government-subsidized, and not a major HSR plan) rail service where the plan was to seriously dump 5-10x daily trains on a corridor in the first year or two and just see what happens.
If nothing else, part of the reason definitely has to do with a state not wanting to be stuck with a half-dozen equipment sets they can't use; on an 8-car Regional basis, that would be somewhere around $100-150 million in losses to deal with. But there's also the fact that improvements tend to run $100m/slot as a rule, so for a 6x daily service you'd be looking at $600m in trackwork plus $150m in rolling stock (assuming you could get one round trip out of each set)...that's a lot of money to throw down on a bet.
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The states probably won't do it unless it is an obviously huge market. DET-CIN and CLE-CIN come to mind.
 
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