Diabetic Man Missing After Being Kicked Off Train

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Doesn't Amtrak have some kind of a policy for removing disorderly people from the train? Coming back to Chicago from LosAngeles, I was on a train where a disorderly passenger was removed at a station with the police waiting there for him.
 
Everydaymatters said:
Doesn't Amtrak have some kind of a policy for removing disorderly people from the train? Coming back to Chicago from LosAngeles, I was on a train where a disorderly passenger was removed at a station with the police waiting there for him.
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I thought so too, that if the train wasn't at a station, then they had to call the police to kick someone off the train. But I guess that either they don't have to do that, or someone didn't follow policy.

And of course if it isn't a policy already, it may well be after this incident.
 
Something just doesn't make sense here. The police saw him, at the crossing, but they couldn't catch a 65 year-old man who was going into diabetic shock, who simply ran into the woods, in their terrotory? What's wrong with this picture? It doesn't say they ran after him, or that they tried to find him, does it? Amtrak, right or wrong, removed him from the train, but apparently waited until the police were on the scene. Maybe their diagnosis was faulty, but it sounds like they at least left him in the presence of the police, who then let a 65 year-old diabetic going into shock outrun them......... We're missing some relevant pieces of the narrative, I think.
 
AmtrakWPK said:
Something just doesn't make sense here. The police saw him, at the crossing, but they couldn't catch a 65 year-old man who was going into diabetic shock, who simply ran into the woods, in their terrotory? What's wrong with this picture? It doesn't say they ran after him, or that they tried to find him, does it? Amtrak, right or wrong, removed him from the train, but apparently waited until the police were on the scene. Maybe their diagnosis was faulty, but it sounds like they at least left him in the presence of the police, who then let a 65 year-old diabetic going into shock outrun them......... We're missing some relevant pieces of the narrative, I think.
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I would hope someone on the crew would have called for medical advice first before calling the cops and dumping him on a crossing in the woods. It's the diabetics responsibility to maintain but a little education goes a long way in helping someone in need. HYPOGLYCEMIA AND "INSULIN SHOCK"
 
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Nsaspook,

I'm not sure how or why, but on both posts you've somehow left off the last one or two letters in the link. On your first post, the "ml" go cut off in the "html" part of the link. In the second post, the "m" got cut off from "htm". I've fixed both for you, but you might want to look into why both times the last few letters got cut off. :)
 
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From the article:

Amtrak personnel told police dispatchers that Sims was drunk and unruly.

 

When officers arrived at the crossing, police said, Sims ran into the woods, leaving his luggage and medication behind.

 

Cell phone records show that Sims' phone was last used in Litchfield Park, Ariz., 180 miles from Williams.

 

Williams police told CBS 5 that Amtrak has used the abandoned crossing as a drop-off site in the past. Graham said that whether drunk or not, no one should be dropped off there.

​



OK, so AMTRAK contacted the Williams, AZ Police Department, who met the train at the crossing (as they likely have done in the past, per Williams PD) and AMTRAK discharged this person into Police custody.

So, what is the problem.

The Sims family said Sims is diabetic and was going into shock.

​



First off, how would the Sims family know this if they were not there. He might be diabetic, but maybe - just maybe - he was drunk.

Also, notice no mention of any Medical Bracelet, ID Tag, or records of any kind in the luggage. I am sure AMTRAK folks are trained to look for that info. I know we were at the Fort Worth, TX PD. Drunk vs. Diabetic is very difficult to detect for a non-medic, especially if the person is unruly.

There usually is more to the story than the headlines, and this is a good example.
 
Aloha

Reading this thread leaves me very confused

1 when set off the train were the police there to receive him?

2 What was the time interval between the decision to remove the passenger and actually removing the Passenger?

3 Was this location decided by Amtrak crew or the Police?

4 Why were the Police unable to control the individual?

5 Any additional information?

Mahalo
 
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Here is a copy of a post to TrainOrder.com

Date: June 28, 2007 22:31

Diabetic man lost on train trip(new facts alter story)

Author: Diddle_E._Squat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As expected, the initial news story implying that Amtrak just dumped the guy alone at a crossing was BS. Apparently what actually happened was the man and the conductor were waiting at the station platform for the police to show up, and when the squad car arrived the guy took off running into the woods. The man had just been diagnosed as diabetic the day before the train trip. Family speculates that perhaps he went into diabetic shock and didn't know how to handle it, but OTOH if he was just diagnosed wouldn't it be likely that the nurse or doctor had at least briefly gone over the risk of shock, what it is, how to recognize it, and how to deal with it? Or perhaps it was all a bit overwhelming and hard to take in at once?

Hearing such a life-changing diagnosis could be quite a mental shock, so it isn't inconceivable that he might actually have been drunk at the time the conductor came to that conclusion. Or maybe not. No way for any of us here to know for sure, so blaming the conductor and Amtrak may be a bad idea, or at a minimum premature. How about just leaving it as a sad story for now?

----------------------------------

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories...y.23d67705.html

Roosevelt Sims, 65, had finally retired.
So for his first vacation ever, the steel mill worker hopped on an Amtrak train in St. Louis and headed to Los Angeles to visit his family.

He would only get as far as Williams, Ariz., when, according to an Amtrak spokesperson, the conductor determined Sims was intoxicated.
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We need to also realize that there are many levels of "diabetic." It can vary from complete insulin dependency to partial controlled by diet alone, or diet and pills, It can be stable or "brittle," that is unpredictible. We know none of this relating to this case. There are many ways that people deal with it. Some can treat it as something they have do deal with as part of living, others act like it is the end of the world for them. We know none of this relating to the case. And, he really could have been drunk, as well. It happens. It is extraordinarily stupid for dibetics to drink, but if he was recently diagnosed, this mayh not have sunk through yet, either.

Since diabetes has been know for centuries, and has been something that people are able to live with for years since the 1920's for people that deal with the public regularly to be clueless about it is highly unlikely. although it does occasionally happen.
 
When a conductor removes a passenger from a train the Police will meet the train to escort the person off Amtrak just doesn't drop passengers that are geting thrown off at stations or crossing's.

And sometimes the police will meet the train at a crossing or the conductor will wait for the next station depending on how the person is acting.

And how was anyone suppose to know that this person had a medical problem if Amtrak was not told.

Thats why when passengers are removed from the train the police are there to assist in case the person is having a medical problem.
 
Not an Amtrak Fan said:
nsaspook said:
You must be kidding. They dropped the guy off in a forest.

Police: Diabetic Man Missing After Being Kicked Off Train :eek:
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This reminds me of another thread:

Amtrak's outrageous treatment of passengers

Amtrak should be held accountable!
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"Upon arrival of authorities, the passenger fled into nearby woods."

Either that's an outright lie (in which case they'll be held accountable), or it's the truth.

I have friends with diabetes. They get weak, shakey, unable to stand, much less able to run into woods.

Maybe he does have diabetes - so what? So do lots of people. Even if it's true, it's just being used as an excuse

to make people feel sorry for him. And if he does have diabetes, why was he drinking alcohol?

But then, I guess "Not an Amtrak Fan" would have an axe to grind, even if he had to go borrow one.
 
i may not have read the article and posts carefully enough but i have a couple questions. how does a conductor establish someone is drunk or that a person is not suffering from a medical condition? if the man did over imbibe did he bring his own supply with him or did the lounge car attendant keep serving him to excess? it sounds like this is just a bad situation but i think amtrak does bear some responsibility and should make public what their criteria are for being "drunk" and how they distinguish that from conditions which could mimic drunkeness and what their policy is on serving customers in the lounge.
 
I think there are a couple of good idea's in these postings. It would be good to know which conditions us drunks could pretend to have in order to prevent being "asked to leave"...

If the retirement age was raised to age 70, and this was the guys first retirement trip, then maybe the police would be able to catch him when he ran off...

I thought Chief Wiggum was a made up character, but I guess he is based on the Williams police dept?

Ed B)
 
It doesnt mater if a person is drunk or not the conductor will make the call if he feels like a passenger is causing issues on the train the conductor will ether radio the head end to have the dispatcher call the police to meet the train or the conductor will call a station agent to contact the police upon arrival at stations.

since the conductor is in charge of the train/employees/passengers he will make the call if he thinks a person or persons are acting up.

It could mean as simple as raising your voice to them and carrying on to where they will think you are a threat to the passengers and crew.
 
Not an Amtrak Fan said:
nsaspook said:
You must be kidding. They dropped the guy off in a forest.

Police: Diabetic Man Missing After Being Kicked Off Train :eek:
Click to expand...
This reminds me of another thread:

Amtrak's outrageous treatment of passengers

Amtrak should be held accountable!
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Maybe "Not an Amtrak Fan" is "Lucifer" of "Amtrak's outrageous treatment of passengers." Can't see any other reason for someone to try to resurrect that irrational rant.

As someone else has said, usually someone having diabetic related problems, either hypoglycemic or high sugar is not going to be capable of running off in the woods.
 
Maybe we all need to take a breath, here is other article:

http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2007/06/29/5290.html

Roosevelt Sims, the diabetic man who was put off an Amtrak train in the middle of an Arizona forest for unruly behavior that Amtrak personnel assessed as alcohol-related, was found last night four days after his disappearance. Carrying a walking stick and wearing only his underwear, he was discovered beside a railroad track three miles south of the nearest town.
It's a happy ending to a story that could have been tragic. The diabetes aspect of the situation, however, is less clear than initial reports indicated.
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Some of the information does not add up here. It says the man parked his car and tried to board the train. I have boarded the train at Williams Junction, which is indeed at a remote location a few miles east of town. Private autos are not permitted on BNSF property ( although I have driven in there myself to check the place out. ) Passengers are brought out from downtown Williams by the Grand Canyon Railway Hotel's van. Passengers check in with hotel staff in the lobby. The station patform for Amtrak is indeed in an obscure location out in the forest. There are no signs.
 
greatcats said:
Some of the information does not add up here. It says the man parked his car and tried to board the train. I have boarded the train at Williams Junction, which is indeed at a remote location a few miles east of town. Private autos are not permitted on BNSF property ( although I have driven in there myself to check the place out. ) Passengers are brought out from downtown Williams by the Grand Canyon Railway Hotel's van. Passengers check in with hotel staff in the lobby. The station patform for Amtrak is indeed in an obscure location out in the forest. There are no signs.
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No, the man was already on the train when it pulled into Williams Junction. It was the police officer who was parking his car, so that he could pick up the man being taken off the train.
 
I want to remind everyone of our policy regarding quoting of news stories on the board. I've edited two posts in this thread already to ensure that they meet the policy of never quoting more than a few paragraphs of the original story.

I ask everyone to please be aware of the policy and the fact that one cannot just quote an entire news story. Thanks! :)
 
I have just read Arizona newspaper articles in today's papers, Flagstaff and Phoenix. Yes, the man boarded Amtrak in St. Louis enroute to Los Angeles and the police were called to Williams Junction. It appears to me that Amtrak handled matters properly, but it is perplexing as to why the local police did not find him until several days later. That station certainly is in an unusual location, out in the forest, but the arrangement for passengers works OK.
 
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