Diner-Lite on the Cardinal

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Trogdor

Trogdor

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Trains 50 and 51 will now offer Diner-Lounge service using rebuilt Amfleet II lounges.

Now's everyone's chance to see how those rebuilt Amfleets look.
 
rmadisonwi said:
Trains 50 and 51 will now offer Diner-Lounge service using rebuilt Amfleet II lounges.
Now's everyone's chance to see how those rebuilt Amfleets look.
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So have you booked on a departure this week?!? ;)

I only hope these cars address some of the freezing issues that the single levels too often suffer from. After my last trip, I'm going to be seriously contemplating before taking the Cardinal considerable distance in the future.
 
The Metropolitan said:
So have you booked on a departure this week?!? ;)
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I'd love to, but I probably won't be able to go anywhere (except for a possible trip to Detroit this weekend) for at least a month or so.

I only hope these cars address some of the freezing issues that the single levels too often suffer from. After my last trip, I'm going to be seriously contemplating before taking the Cardinal considerable distance in the future.
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If the modifications were part of a complete remanufacture, then they could probably survive the freezing cold better (like the remanufactured Horizons performed much better this winter compared to those that did not get that treatment). However, if all they did was refit/refurbish the interior, then probably not.

Considering that, once this cold spell goes away, it won't be winter again for at least half a year, I'm not too worried about the cars freezing up if I take a trip on that train in a couple of months.
 
As posted elsewhere on the net by Gene Poon:

The Amfleet II Lounge car fleet is being retrofitted to a Diner/Lounge configuration with more refrigeration, dry storage, steam table and combination convection/microwave ovens. Seven cars are currently in service.
The cars are designed to function either as a Diner/Lounge or as a Lounge car on trains with a dedicated Dining Car.

The Cardinal, Trains #50 and #51, are to be assigned two of the retrofitted Amfleet II Diner/Lounge cars. They will serve as Diner/Lounge cars and service upgrades will include:

Expanded selection of appetizers

"All Day" menu with hot and cold entrees

Dinner menu with five selections (a full diner has six or seven)

Reduced prices on many entrees

Amtrak is officially referring to this as "NEW DINER LITE SERVICE" in an internal advisory dated 04APR2007.

-source: Gene Poon, Amtrak
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IMHO, this can only be an improvement for the Cardinal, especially if they plan to use a menu similar to that which Robert and others encountered during the testing of the Superliner version of Diner-Lite. These cars should also be pressed into service on the Pennslyvanian, Palmetto, and the Carolinian IMHO, as both of those trains could use upgraded food service.

I don't however think that they should be used as replacements for actual diners on the Silver Service trains, the Crescent, and the LSL. They can serve as lounge cars for those trains, but I don't think that they should replace the diners. They simply don't have the capacity to handle the passenger load properly.
 
Is this effective immediately? That would be a huge improvement for the Cardinal. I rode it last summer and the food service on there was dismal. However, I like the scenery and the longer train ride. Better food service would make this a legitimate choice for me to the east coast.
 
I agree that these should be used to upgrade medium distance trains, as opposed to downgrading long distance ones.
 
Probably anything running with a Cafe Car that runs more than 6 hours end to end would be a good candidate for such a service. As Alan mentioned, the Southern day trains and the Pennsylvanian, but how about the long corridor hauls from NPN to BOS as well as other trains like the Vermonter?!? I'd think they'd be a strong selling point to solidify market share on trains which Amtrak already does well, but could certainly add enhancments for the longer haul trains.

In addition, it would be an ideal amenity if Amtrak ever finds a way of supplementing frequencies on portions of LD routes with filler trains, say for example if a WAS-ATL or CHI-PGH day train was initiated.
 
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I don't know if its just because its a 'Cafe Car', but my gripe about the Cardinal is that if you catch it on the latter portion of its run....Indianapolis on West in my case, the car has nothing in stock to offer for those boarding who desire something to eat. I'm wondering if the small size of the galley makes for a small pantry to stock?
 
I spoke with NARP today and they were able to confirm with Amtrak that 50/51 has been running some of the new Diner-Lounge cars since April 3 (out of Chicago) and April 4 (out of NYP). It's running with a menu "similar" to what was offered on the 37000 Superliner car, and is purportedly giving a service that's much closer to a real diner as compared to the former Dinette. The 8 cars (Amfleet II) haven't been completely rebuilt, apparently (purportedly because they last received a full rebuilt in 2000-2001 when the smoking lounges were installed-only to be abandoned later). Instead they've been refitted with a steam table and second convection oven and additional food preparation area.

I'm looking into the possibility of covering it as a small blog item for my paper, and if that pans out, I'll snap some pictures for everyone.

-Rafi
 
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Considering he had nothing positive to say about anything, that report leads me to believe that it can't be that bad.
 
printman2000 said:
One thing I did read is that he has traveled on every Amtrak route. That gives him some credibility in my book to know what he is talking about.
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I believe what he said was that in riding the California Zephyr and the Cardinal, he has now ridden all the long-distance trains, not every Amtrak route.
 
Unfortunately this falls into exactly why I find the price of sleepers totally unrealted to any kind of decent service. It seems like they just feel that they can charge what ever they want then provide nearly nothing to justifiy the price, and you as the passenger should love it..

Somehow the Empire Builder seems to be a rare bright spot.. I wonder how that has happened among the sad conditon of many other trains. It boils down to the buck stops here.. someone at amtrak should be seeing all these things and correcting them long before the fare is collected. How in the world do you expect to build a service with trains of this type. I recall the total disappointment that the premade meals evoked when I rode the City of NO when they were in the first period of eliminating the on board food preperation. And the ride I mentioned a while back on the Lake Shore with filthy sleeper, and falling apart diner and lounge seats with trash bags strewn all about. Actually the reference to the diner area full of luggage rang a bell on my recent CNO ride before christmas when one of the few table they were serving from on one end of the diner was strewn with crew paperwork and junk.. Not an appealing way to have dinner and someone should be supervising that kind of mess. Unfortunately its probably the supervisors mess too..

Well I am ranting again, is it the goverment operation at fault, poor managment, or none..
 
The trip report in question indicates that he traveled in mid to late March. However, the diner-lounge service was only started this month.

I haven't seen the reconfigured Amfleet IIs, but if the service is similar to that which I had on the Capitol Limited in December, I think the diner-lounge on the Cardinal should be successful.
 
Larry H. said:
Unfortunately this falls into exactly why I find the price of sleepers totally unrealted to any kind of decent service. It seems like they just feel that they can charge what ever they want then provide nearly nothing to justifiy the price, and you as the passenger should love it..
Somehow the Empire Builder seems to be a rare bright spot.. I wonder how that has happened among the sad conditon of many other trains. It boils down to the buck stops here.. someone at amtrak should be seeing all these things and correcting them long before the fare is collected. How in the world do you expect to build a service with trains of this type. I recall the total disappointment that the premade meals evoked when I rode the City of NO when they were in the first period of eliminating the on board food preperation. And the ride I mentioned a while back on the Lake Shore with filthy sleeper, and falling apart diner and lounge seats with trash bags strewn all about. Actually the reference to the diner area full of luggage rang a bell on my recent CNO ride before christmas when one of the few table they were serving from on one end of the diner was strewn with crew paperwork and junk.. Not an appealing way to have dinner and someone should be supervising that kind of mess. Unfortunately its probably the supervisors mess too..

Well I am ranting again, is it the goverment operation at fault, poor managment, or none..
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I agree wholeheatedly. I was one of those guinea pigs last year on the City and was verbally chastised, on this list, for griping about half-frozen meals and poor service. There was even a sandwich crust under my seat in the sleeper that looked half-appetizing when I returned from the pits of hell diner. Glad to know someone else shares my concerns. I went City to Empire Builder and thought that I had crawled out of hell into the gates of heaven~ absolutely no comparision. There were four people in the sleeper and about 20 coach riders on the City on a cold February day last year and the LSA DEMANDED that I make a reservation for dinner. How can they justify charging the same for unedible food on one train and champagne toasts on another for the same price ???
 
Larry H. said:
Somehow the Empire Builder seems to be a rare bright spot.. I wonder how that has happened among the sad conditon of many other trains. It boils down to the buck stops here.. someone at amtrak should be seeing all these things and correcting them long before the fare is collected.
<snip>

Well I am ranting again, is it the goverment operation at fault, poor managment, or none.
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The Empire Builder is the bright spot owing to a happy coincidence of factors. First, it runs in an area where interstate highways aren't. Second, people use it for basic transportation. Third, they aren't afraid to say so to their elected representatives, who place the political leverage on Amtrak managment. Finally, David Gunn, in his term as Amtrak president, found the money in the Amtrak budget to rehab enough Superliner cars for a "showcase" Amtrak train, and selected the EB.

As for management, Amtrak just fired two supervisors in Chicago. No word yet on the fallout from those actions.
 
This on board service situation goes so far back its not funny. I recall my uncle who traveled St. Louis to Chicago for business in the 50's complaning that if you didn't give the lounge attendent a large tip they would ignore you. As I started traveling myself in the late 50's early 60's I used to feel obligated to hand and extra dollar to an attentend who was already charging four times the normal price for a soda. Then one day I saw a report on what the service personel were making and was stunned to see that they were making one whole heck of a lot more than I did at that point. Well in fact ever.. So this anything goes service is ingrained and difficult to erase.

Yes I also agree that some fans of Amtrak are so happy to have anything running they are willing to make excuses for nearly any kind of service. In fact that does a disservice to rail travel in general. If you settle for poor food and service its what you get. Of course in truth in so many cases that is what we are getting anyway.
 
Larry H. said:
Yes I also agree that some fans of Amtrak are so happy to have anything running they are willing to make excuses for nearly any kind of service. In fact that does a disservice to rail travel in general. If you settle for poor food and service its what you get. Of course in truth in so many cases that is what we are getting anyway.
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I will say that I do try to be happy with whatever Amtrak provides, not matter how bad. of course, if there is a truly horrible staff or somehting like that, I'll be upset. I see it as that if I try to be happy with Amtrak's food, equipment etc. and overlook bad spots, I'll have a wonderful trip. If I continuously gripe about it to myself, the trip that I just spent $600 on will turn into a nightmare, and I can join the many ranks of people who post reports about "ruined" "trips of a lifetime". Sure I want better service, but complaining won't bring it. It should be said that I'm not a connoisseur of food, so diner food doesn't really bother me.
 
AmtrakCrescent20 said:
Sure I want better service, but complaining won't bring it.
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Complaining on *this list* won't bring better service, nor will complaining to friends, family, or the local newspaper (or even your congressman, unless your complaint is about the lack of available service due to lack of funding).

However, a detailed complaint to Amtrak customer service, with names, dates, car numbers, what happened, etc., will almost always result in a follow-up phone call. From there, they will try to identify what went wrong and work on fixing it. However, service won't improve if Amtrak never finds out what went wrong in the first place (complaining directly to the employee in question, once, in a polite manner, might get the situation fixed; if not, then make a note of that and bring it to the attention of Amtrak Customer Relations at the end of the trip).

Plus, as long as your complaint appears valid, and you don't come off as a chronic complainer with a chip on your shoulder, you could even get a certificate good towards future travel.

It's also important to tell Amtrak what went right, so they can continue to do what works.
 
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