Diners for the NEC / NER trains?

[Philzy]

So, I did a search for this but I didn’t find much, if this has been posted and discussed before, my apologies and mods please delete.

Maybe ya’ll can help me out and update n school me. I haven’t ridden on the Northeast Regional (NER) in a number of years.

I have a friend coming to visit from California, as he needs a “de-stress” vacation. I suggested a train trip up to Vermont or Boston and back the next day to unwind. I thought how nice it would be to hangout in the diner and catch up and watch the world guy by eating something nice.

It somehow escaped my mind that on the Northeast Corridor (NEC) routes have no diners (only café/lounge cars), only long haul trains do- which if you’re traveling within the NEC you can not purchase tickets for these trains. The only option I’m guessing would be to take the Acela which of course would more than double the cost of the tickets, no sale. I don’t even know what Acela offers food wise but I can’t imagine it would be worth the extra cost of the ticket just for the food!

This got me thinking. With the recent order for Viewliner diners, what’s the possibility of some of the heritage diners sticking around a little longer or some of these new Viewliner diners being placed on some of the NE Regional trains during peak meal times? Wouldn’t this seem to make sense?

If you’re say traveling the entire length from Boston to DC, that’s at least 7 to 8 hours, no? Isn’t that a little long to go without a “real” meal? Granted some decent things are available in the café car but mostly you have the options of trading too much salt for too much sugar for too many preservatives.

Is this a possibility? Or is this just a pipe dream for us Rail Fans? While we’re on it, what exactly is the plan for those Heritage diners? Estimated phase out plan? Anyone know? Hopefully something more that soup cans?

Regards for the weekend.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

You can travel between NYP and WAS and get a diner.

As for the heritage diners, no, they will go on the LSL and Cardinal while the diner-lites end up either on medium-distance service like the Adiondack, diners on the 449/448, and also on a possible re-newel of the Twilight Shoreliner/Nightowl (66/67)

 

[Ispolkom]

You could can't book the long-distance trains from Philadelphia to Washington, but you can from Philadelphia to Alexandria. Is that a long enough trip?

 

[the_traveler]

Even if there were diners on the NEC, the problem is most passengers are not on long enough to justify having a sit down meal. True, there are some that are on the train for 7+ hours or more, but there are many more who only are on for 1-2 hours! On LD trains, a passenger may go from say Chicago to Dallas or LA to Oakland or Denver to SLC - and stops may be 2-3 hours apart. On the NEC, they could be 15-20 minutes apart! (I can get on in Kingston, RI and ride to New London, CT - about 40 minutes away - and have 2 stops in between, or Kingston to Boston South Station - about 1 hour away - and have 3 stops in between!)

I don't see diners on the NEC as a good use of equipment.

 

[AlanB]

I haven't seen or heard of any official plans, but my money is on Amtrak retiring the Heritage dinners if/when the new Viewliner II dining cars are all online. And most likely the Diner-Lite cars will simply revert back to cafe cars on most trains, while perhaps serving slightly upscale meals that are cheaper than those served in the dining car.

 

[Nickrapak]

In my opinion, the only NEC trains with diners should be the 66/67, where they would serve "midnight diner" style food: hot and cold sandwiches, hot dogs, french toast and omelets. This would be in conjunction with restoration of the Viewliners on the 66/67, and would count as the free meals for sleeper pax.

 

[Philzy]

You could can't book the long-distance trains from Philadelphia to Washington, but you can from Philadelphia to Alexandria. Is that a long enough trip?

Umm, the scenery along that route isn't exactly a de-stresser as it's mostly concrete. I was looking for more green.

Even if there were diners on the NEC, the problem is most passengers are not on long enough to justify having a sit down meal. True, there are some that are on the train for 7+ hours or more, but there are many more who only are on for 1-2 hours! On LD trains, a passenger may go from say Chicago to Dallas or LA to Oakland or Denver to SLC - and stops may be 2-3 hours apart. On the NEC, they could be 15-20 minutes apart! (I can get on in Kingston, RI and ride to New London, CT - about 40 minutes away - and have 2 stops in between, or Kingston to Boston South Station - about 1 hour away - and have 3 stops in between!)
I don't see diners on the NEC as a good use of equipment.

Ahh, I do see your point no this one. I guess I was more thinking for the busy business man that this would be an opertune time to eat if one was busy rather than having to again stop to eat once off the train, while on the way to said meeting

I haven't seen or heard of any official plans, but my money is on Amtrak retiring the Heritage dinners if/when the new Viewliner II dining cars are all online. And most likely the Diner-Lite cars will simply revert back to cafe cars on most trains, while perhaps serving slightly upscale meals that are cheaper than those served in the dining car.

Thats kind of what I figured, well time will tell I guess. Would love to see them refurbised and put to good use as a lounge/bar or something on the longer haulers, maybe for sleepers? That would keep the sleeper car customers out fo teh cafe car? Might be an idea. Seems like ever y time I'm on a long haul train the cafe car is always packed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Lots of posters here have mentioned the menu and chowder on the Downeaster, I look forward to riding this train, it sounds like its may be what you want! Some of the Northeasters said not to ride the Vermonter or the Ethan Allen unless you have a reason to go to vermont?? The Adirondack with the dome car is supposed to be a great fall ride in Oct./early Nov., nothing but a cafe car with "snacks" but a great trip! My money is on what AlanB says about diners, hes almost always right on the mark with info!!

 

[AlanB]

You could can't book the long-distance trains from Philadelphia to Washington, but you can from Philadelphia to Alexandria. Is that a long enough trip?

Umm, the scenery along that route isn't exactly a de-stresser as it's mostly concrete. I was looking for more green.

While I won't deny that there is a fair amount of concrete along that run, there is also quite a bit of green along the way too, including two beautiful river crossings.

 

[TVRM610]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.

I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

 

[cpamtfan]

Back in the good ole' days, NEC/NH Shoreline trains of the Pennsy had diners, but that was a different time. Todays times are mainly eat and run (isn't that why they invented the drive thru?). The Heritage cars will most likely be retired (some might become first class lounges, but with their age, along with the PPCs, just shys Amtrak away from keeping them in service). I don't even think 66-67 will get a diner, just cafe food or Diner Lite. The Diners are meant for trains that serve more than just one meal.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.
I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

Food service cars are there for service and comfort-- they generally don't make money.

 

[cpamtfan]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.

Both used to have "bar cars" on diesel trains, and the LIRR also had (and still have) bar carts on the platforms at Penn, Flatbush Ave. (Brooklyn), and Jamaica. They also use the carts on some evening and summer trains. MN still has full bar cars on NH line trains, and when they get new cars, some of those cars will have bars also. NJT also runs the ACES service, which has a "bar car deluxe" with deli sandwiches, salads, etc.

 

[cpamtfan]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.
I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

Food service cars are there for service and comfort-- they generally don't make money.

Bar cars do, see my previous post.

 

[cpamtfan]

Lots of posters here have mentioned the menu and chowder on the Downeaster, I look forward to riding this train, it sounds like its may be what you want! Some of the Northeasters said not to ride the Vermonter or the Ethan Allen unless you have a reason to go to vermont?? The Adirondack with the dome car is supposed to be a great fall ride in Oct./early Nov., nothing but a cafe car with "snacks" but a great trip! My money is on what AlanB says about diners, hes almost always right on the mark with info!!

The Downeaster train is nice, but don't think the menu (which has Coke instead of Pepsi) will ever come to other trains. The services are provided by a local caterer. I'm not sure whats wrong with going to Vermont. I say its nice and peaceful. Dome is nice, and I like Amtrak cafe grub, but for those wh don't like it, you could get something in Montreal (I'd say theres some good food in Montreal). Alan is right, thats why they NEED the new diners, to replace the current ones (which are up to 60 years old ).

 

[had8ley]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.
I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

Food service cars are there for service and comfort-- they generally don't make money.

I'd love to see the food tally sheets for the Downeaster. In many trips since its inception I rarely see no one at the cafe counter. Coupled with the B/C in seat service this little four car wonder moves some food for a short commuter style train. My suggestion would be to start out at NYP, go up to Albany and catch #448 over to Boston. Hop a cab to North Station, experience the Downeaster and spend the night in the motel (rather nice place) a stone's throw from the station. Rent a car the next day or hop a cab and do the Portland seaport. There is even a steam RR that runs at certain times of the year. There is also a ferry that runs to Nova Scotia and an occasional cruise ship in port.Then reverse back to NYP via South Station and the Acela for the experience of America's answer to high speed rail.

 

[cpamtfan]

You can travel between NYP and WAS and get a diner.
As for the heritage diners, no, they will go on the LSL and Cardinal while the diner-lites end up either on medium-distance service like the Adiondack, diners on the 449/448, and also on a possible re-newel of the Twilight Shoreliner/Nightowl (66/67)

Where did you get that idea. Once the new Viewliners get here, the Heritage diners are dead meat, no longer needed. They might be nice for dinner trains, possibly a short time as a "first class lounge", etc., but they sure note going on the LSL and Cardinal as diners. Also, 448-449 and 66-67 are not getting full diners, they are (at least the LSL) will get a Diner Lite on the BOS section. 66-67 might not get anything.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

You can travel between NYP and WAS and get a diner.
As for the heritage diners, no, they will go on the LSL and Cardinal while the diner-lites end up either on medium-distance service like the Adiondack, diners on the 449/448, and also on a possible re-newel of the Twilight Shoreliner/Nightowl (66/67)

Where did you get that idea. Once the new Viewliners get here, the Heritage diners are dead meat, no longer needed. They might be nice for dinner trains, possibly a short time as a "first class lounge", etc., but they sure note going on the LSL and Cardinal as diners. Also, 448-449 and 66-67 are not getting full diners, they are (at least the LSL) will get a Diner Lite on the BOS section. 66-67 might not get anything.

Calm yourself I was just referring to what is going to happen in the near future before we get the new diners.

 

[cpamtfan]

Calm yourself I was just referring to what is going to happen in the near future before we get the new diners.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you are refering to any diners in BG, those aren't coming back. They're dead due to lack of funds, equipment, etc. So until the new stuff get here, Diner Lite on the LSL and red bird (I don't even think Amtrak has taken a single thought about running one of the Diner Lites on a day train, it was just someones though glorified making people think they would be put on, well guess what, they're not, so its Amcafe, bring your own aboard, or nothing) .

 

[AlanB]

So until the new stuff get here, Diner Lite on the LSL and red bird (I don't even think Amtrak has taken a single thought about running one of the Diner Lites on a day train, it was just someones though glorified making people think they would be put on, well guess what, they're not, so its Amcafe, bring your own aboard, or nothing) .

No, that's not quite correct either. Once the prototype Viewliner I Dining car get released from Beech Grove, which is supposed to happen sometime this fall, the LSL will get full diners back. I'm not sure where or how they are finding the other two Heritage dining cars that will be needed, but the LSL is supposed to get full dining car service back long before any new Viewliner II diners come online.

 

[cpamtfan]

So until the new stuff get here, Diner Lite on the LSL and red bird (I don't even think Amtrak has taken a single thought about running one of the Diner Lites on a day train, it was just someones though glorified making people think they would be put on, well guess what, they're not, so its Amcafe, bring your own aboard, or nothing) .

No, that's not quite correct either. Once the prototype Viewliner I Dining car get released from Beech Grove, which is supposed to happen sometime this fall, the LSL will get full diners back. I'm not sure where or how they are finding the other two Heritage dining cars that will be needed, but the LSL is supposed to get full dining car service back long before any new Viewliner II diners come online.

I'm doubting that they can get anymore diners running. They have twenty currently, and the four that are in BG are in worse condition than I thought. Parts are getting scarcer, so that will probably leave those cars in BG. They did, however, run the Superliner Diner Lounge prototype car run on only one set of the CL in 2007, and that is what I expect Amtrak to do with this car.

 

[AlanB]

So until the new stuff get here, Diner Lite on the LSL and red bird (I don't even think Amtrak has taken a single thought about running one of the Diner Lites on a day train, it was just someones though glorified making people think they would be put on, well guess what, they're not, so its Amcafe, bring your own aboard, or nothing) .

No, that's not quite correct either. Once the prototype Viewliner I Dining car get released from Beech Grove, which is supposed to happen sometime this fall, the LSL will get full diners back. I'm not sure where or how they are finding the other two Heritage dining cars that will be needed, but the LSL is supposed to get full dining car service back long before any new Viewliner II diners come online.

I'm doubting that they can get anymore diners running. They have twenty currently, and the four that are in BG are in worse condition than I thought. Parts are getting scarcer, so that will probably leave those cars in BG. They did, however, run the Superliner Diner Lounge prototype car run on only one set of the CL in 2007, and that is what I expect Amtrak to do with this car.

Again, I have no idea if they plan to get more diners running or not. I also haven't looked at the math to see if 21 single level diners is enough to fill the daily needs or not. All I do know is that as of a few months ago, the plan as stated publicly by Amtrak was to restore full dining car service to the LSL this fall. And that plan was based upon the return to service of the prototype Viewliner I diner.

However Amtrak is currently performing major overhauls on many of the cars, that typically means that at least 2 or 3 cars at any given time are in Beech Grove for that work. I believe that they are counting on those cars currently down for the overhaul to fill out the roster to a point where 21 is indeed enough to keep the LSL running with full diners at all times.

 

[jis]

So until the new stuff get here, Diner Lite on the LSL and red bird (I don't even think Amtrak has taken a single thought about running one of the Diner Lites on a day train, it was just someones though glorified making people think they would be put on, well guess what, they're not, so its Amcafe, bring your own aboard, or nothing) .

No, that's not quite correct either. Once the prototype Viewliner I Dining car get released from Beech Grove, which is supposed to happen sometime this fall, the LSL will get full diners back. I'm not sure where or how they are finding the other two Heritage dining cars that will be needed, but the LSL is supposed to get full dining car service back long before any new Viewliner II diners come online.

Someone closer to BG can verify or refute, but I have heard that there are two Heritage Diners that were out of service that are slated to be brought back together with the Viewliner prototype to create the 3 car pool to return Diner service the LSL. As I said just a rumor and I have not yet found a way to get this one verified by anyone that I trust.

 

[haolerider]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.
I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

Food service cars are there for service and comfort-- they generally don't make money.

They never make money.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I've often wondered if NJ Transit trains or LIRR trains could run with food service cars on busy routes. Just a mobile starbucks type deal could work wonders for the morning commute.
I don't think a traditional diner would work, but I do think that a "bistro" car or something like that would be popular Corridor trains. I'm sure it would not be profitable though, so I don't know how it could work, but I would use it.

Food service cars are there for service and comfort-- they generally don't make money.

They never make money.

Thought so.

Speaking of which, why does MN still run with the bar cars on a couple of its trains?