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jis

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The second problem was caused by the JAL crew forgetting to shut off a cross feed valve!

The first one is potentially a more serious one but apparently very unlikely while in flight since apparently both the APU and the Engines must be off to activate that battery pack.

Interesting nonetheless.
 

shinkansen

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Two JAL one ANA for a total of three incidents this week. Regardless, I hate how the media is blowing this up. Just liek when the A380 came out there were teething isues, and the B777 prior and essentially every new AC there are little bugs.
 

jis

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AFAICT the ANA one involved not having parts on hand to do some parts replacement in a brake assembly. Not clear that any safety issue was involved. Or maybe I missed something in that one.

The way they are counting these days, almost any flight that is delayed due to any technical issue would be counted as an incident! Yes it is a dispatch reliability issue, except the forgetting to shut the cross flow valve one.

The only issue of real concern in the current set of three AFAICT is the battery overheating issue which I am almost certain is the most likely to create an FAA AD.
 

Swadian Hardcore

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Still, this plane was delayed to almost no end. Many airliner fans must have been delighted to see it finally enter service. I hope that now these issues will be solve, but they don't seem too big.
 

Swadian Hardcore

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Still, this plane was delayed to almost no end. Many airliner fans must have been delighted to see it finally enter service. I hope that now these issues will be solve, but they don't seem too big.
This is all very typical for teething problems one new aircraft.
Well of course, 'cause I liked planes too until the LCCs expletived the domestic industry and now I only care about the routes without LCCs.
 
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leemell

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Still, this plane was delayed to almost no end. Many airliner fans must have been delighted to see it finally enter service. I hope that now these issues will be solve, but they don't seem too big.
This is all very typical for teething problems on new aircraft.
Well of course, 'cause I liked planes too until the LCCs expletived the domestic industry and now I only care about the routes without LCCs.
??
 

jis

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Swadian, how many LCCs do you believe operate the 787? I am trying understand the relevance of your comment above.
 
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Devil's Advocate

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After decades of continuous homogenization nearly every single major US airline in existence today has essentially become a LCC at its core. Whatever relatively minor differences that remain have little or nothing to do with being an LLC or a Legacy.
 

railiner

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After decades of continuous homogenization nearly every single major US airline in existence today has essentially become a LCC at its core. Whatever relatively minor differences that remain have little or nothing to do with being an LLC or a Legacy.
After decades of continuous homogenization nearly every single major US airline in existence today has essentially become a LCC at its core. Whatever relatively minor differences that remain have little or nothing to do with being an LLC or a Legacy.
Agreed! And as original LCC's have matured, airlines such as Southwest have now began suffering some of the issues that legacy carriers have--mainly labor unrest.

Eventually as there is no difference between original LCC's and Legacy's, there will rise a new wave of LCC's to undercut the older carrier's.......
 

the_traveler

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Yes, there may be certain problems with a new aircraft, but how often do you hear about problems with other "established" aircraft, or a recall of some car for some problems on "2005-2008 models"? :blush:

I am not worried about a few problems of this sort.
 

railiner

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I too would jump on a 787 with no hesitation.....

The modern airliner, even an 'all-new' design, is launched into service with a far better pre-service certification, than say what the first jetliner's in the 1950's experienced.

Anyone remember the first Comet's?
 

The Davy Crockett

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This article at CNN talks about how unusual the rereview by the FAA is.

From the article:

The FAA "just certified the airplane, so they're going to go back and redo it." Does the FAA "not trust" their "own people?" asked Goglia, [a former member of the NTSB] who's also a former airline mechanic.

Kevin Hiatt, president and CEO of the Flight Safety Foundation, says the situation speaks to what's going on inside the FAA itself. "We hope they take a look at their own processes internally to make sure that they're up to date and on par with this new technologically advanced aircraft."
 
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jis

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Some reports suggest that a true blue American company, a subsidiary of United Technologies, named Hamilton Sundstrand, is implicated in all the part failures that have been involved, including the switching cabinets, the landing gear parts and the bad bearing in the Rolls-Royce Trent engines. So I suspect FAA is really interested in getting to the bottom of this. So far it looks like not a design problem but a batch of defective parts supplied by the aforementioned company problem. Good to get this investigated and taken care of before things get out of hand.

We will all get to know the details in due course of time as the investigation makes its way to the root cause.

Bad quality or non-standard parts and use of non standard procedures is a much more critical problem in avionics than on railroads. The result of using defective parts in railroads would most often not even make it to any newspaper, and might make it to this forum.

But in any case until an AD (Airworthiness Directive) is issued it is just another investigation. At present the expectation is that one or more of those might be issued for specific frames that are know to have gotten parts from the defective batch. No one is at present talking of any significant redesign or grounding of the plane. And contrary to Mr. Googlia, no FAA is not working on recertifiying it. It is working on investigating a specific set of events.
 

PRR 60

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An All Nippon Airways 787 made an emergency landing and evacuation at Takamatsu, Japan (TAK) on Wednesday (1/16) after the pilot reported a battery fault indication and an odor was noticed in the cabin. As a result, ANA has grounded it's fleet of seventeen 787 aircraft.

Reuters

NHK World (video)
 

Swadian Hardcore

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Swadian, how many LCCs do you believe operate the 787? I am trying understand the relevance of your comment above.
I don't care much about LCCs but I'm posting about the 787 because LCCs don't fly them!

After decades of continuous homogenization nearly every single major US airline in existence today has essentially become a LCC at its core. Whatever relatively minor differences that remain have little or nothing to do with being an LLC or a Legacy.
After decades of continuous homogenization nearly every single major US airline in existence today has essentially become a LCC at its core. Whatever relatively minor differences that remain have little or nothing to do with being an LLC or a Legacy.
Agreed! And as original LCC's have matured, airlines such as Southwest have now began suffering some of the issues that legacy carriers have--mainly labor unrest.Eventually as there is no difference between original LCC's and Legacy's, there will rise a new wave of LCC's to undercut the older carrier's.......
That's why I don't even care about those "cheap" routes anymore (when Legacies lowered fares to match LCCs) that people keep complaining are too expensive. AKA domestic routes.
 

PRR 60

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An All Nippon Airways 787 made an emergency landing and evacuation at Takamatsu, Japan (TAK) on Wednesday (1/16) after the pilot reported a battery fault indication and an odor was noticed in the cabin. As a result, ANA has grounded it's fleet of seventeen 787 aircraft.
Reuters

NHK World (video)
JAL has also grounded the 787. Not a good time for Boeing.
 

Devil's Advocate

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An All Nippon Airways 787 made an emergency landing and evacuation at Takamatsu, Japan (TAK) on Wednesday (1/16) after the pilot reported a battery fault indication and an odor was noticed in the cabin. As a result, ANA has grounded it's fleet of seventeen 787 aircraft.

Reuters

NHK World (video)
JAL has also grounded the 787. Not a good time for Boeing.
All those years of having to hear the Boeing enthusiasts claim that Airbus was a joke of a manufacturer. It's certainly true that the A380 had multiple problems out of the gate and that the B777's EIS was smooth as silk, but two data points in a vacuum do not make a rule. I guess after several years of A380 success and B787 delays that assumption didn't quite pan out the way many assumed it would. Frankly I wondered when something like this would be on the horizon back when the FAA started implementing self-testing and approval of safety regulations and quality assurance standards. Guess it was sooner rather than later.
 

Blackwolf

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CNN is reporting as Breaking News that the FAA has issued an Airworthiness Directive effectively grounding the entire 787 fleet and forcing Boeing to halt assembly on all Dreamliners under construction until their investigation is completed.

Really not good for Boeing.
 
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