Electronic Ticket Scanning Pilot

[Tracktwentynine]

According to NARP's blog, Amtrak conductors on the Downeaster will soon begin scanning tickets with electronic readers. This pilot project bodes well for bringing Amtrak ticketing fully into the 1990s. Records of who is actually on board will be transmitted to a central database. That should help solve the problem encountered during the California Zephyr crash of not knowing who was missing.

Excerpt:

...Currently, conductors collect paper tickets from customers and carry them in their shirt pockets—a system relatively unchanged since the days when locomotives were powered by steam. While it is true that there is a digital documentation of a passenger' reservation, the only record of who actually boarded the train resides in the conductor's paper tickets.
That's all about to change. Passengers on the Downeaster will be part of a mobile device field test beginning this week. For the time being, there will be nothing different about how customers purchase tickets. The only difference passengers will see is the portable ticket-scanning device conductors will be field-testing, which will be used to instantly send ticket information to a central database.

...

Read more: http://www.narprail....ice_field_test/

 

[NY Penn]

This pilot project bodes well for bringing Amtrak ticketing fully into the 1990s.

LOL!

It's about time, though.

 

[Gratt]

About... Freaking... Time! hboy:

I know I know I like collecting my ticket stubs too, but can you imagine how much Amtrak will save on paper stock mailing tickets?!

It will make understaffed stations a lot more manageable. Just print your code at home and go.

I imagine regular travelers on the NEC will make the most of this though and it will hopefully add ridership.

Any word on a wider roll out?

 

[transit54]

This is good news. I believe this pilot was originally planned for June (according to the Amtrak business plan on their site) and has been pushed back until now.

I'm a little disappointed in NARP's statement that "should make passengers cautiously optimistic for the coming years," however. Amtrak's planning documents all indicated that print at home eTicketing would be coming relatively soon - within the year, really. I was just on board the 40th anniversary train this past weekend and the eTicketing exhibit explicitly states that eTicketing would be available by the end of 2011. Now, I was planning on them running into some delays, but I figured that roll-out in the first half of 2012 was realistic. NARP makes it sound like this capability could be several years away. Now, granted, NARP does not speak on Amtrak's behalf, but I'd at least expect them to have credible reasoning for what they write.

 

[AlecL]

Any word on a wider roll out?

The e-ticketing communications team at Amtrak has provided sales employees with the following timetable in regards to e-ticketing.

• Early Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Capitol Corridor trains
• Late Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Long Distance trains
• Feb - e-ticketing pilot program transitions into actual e-ticketing
• Feb to May - Transition to "print anywhere" e-tickets across the national system, with completion slated for sometime in May 2012

Of course the above is just a loose estimate and time frame but it should give some sort of idea of where they're headed with this whole e-ticketing business. They gave us a nice little graphic outlining the whole thing. I'd provide a link to it as my source but it's on the Amtrak Intranet.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm a little disappointed in NARP's statement that "should make passengers cautiously optimistic for the coming years," however. I was just on board the 40th anniversary train this past weekend and the eTicketing exhibit explicitly states that eTicketing would be available by the end of 2011. NARP makes it sound like this capability could be several years away. Now, granted, NARP does not speak on Amtrak's behalf, but I'd at least expect them to have credible reasoning for what they write.

What's more [in]credible than waiting fifteen years for cutting edge technology of the mid-1990's to reach Amtrak?

 

[transit54]

What's more [in]credible than waiting fifteen years for cutting edge technology of the mid-1990's to reach Amtrak?

Is that accurate, though? Wasn't Deutsch Bahn the first railway to roll out e-ticketing for passengers? Did they do this in the mid-1990s? I think it was later than that, IIRC.

I know airlines had it in the mid 1990s, but that's a poor comparison, unless anyone can cite an airline that offered eTicketing in a location without a physical gate or network connection, operating purely off a handheld device linked by cellular.

Not at all disagreeing we're behind the times - I just think it's more like 5-8 years behind rather than 15.

 

[transit54]

The e-ticketing communications team at Amtrak has provided sales employees with the following timetable in regards to e-ticketing.

• Early Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Capitol Corridor trains
• Late Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Long Distance trains
• Feb - e-ticketing pilot program transitions into actual e-ticketing
• Feb to May - Transition to "print anywhere" e-tickets across the national system, with completion slated for sometime in May 2012

Of course the above is just a loose estimate and time frame but it should give some sort of idea of where they're headed with this whole e-ticketing business. They gave us a nice little graphic outlining the whole thing. I'd provide a link to it as my source but it's on the Amtrak Intranet.

Thanks for the timeline. This is much more in line with what I anticipated. The information is very appreciated.

 

[TimePeace]

Evokes a famous quotation:

"As Maine goes, so goes the nation."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I know airlines had it in the mid 1990s, but that's a poor comparison, unless anyone can cite an airline that offered eTicketing in a location without a physical gate or network connection, operating purely off a handheld device linked by cellular. Not at all disagreeing we're behind the times - I just think it's more like 5-8 years behind rather than 15.

Considering that it was the US market that initially pioneered and adopted e-tickets on a large scale I think other US passenger carriers are a better measure than foreign carriers. Here in the US Amtrak is just now experimenting with an extremely limited testbed rollout. In my view that puts them over a decade late compared to their domestic competitors. Another point I disagree with is the implication that new ticketing technology should only be rolled out when the whole entire network is ready for it. That's not how it happened with passenger airlines and I see no technical reason why that would be a necessary requirement for passenger railways either. From a technological perspective the NEC could have had e-ticketing a decade ago if it was a real priority. Trips composed of major stations along the LD network could have allowed e-ticketing as well while trips that included rural stops still required paper tickets. There's really no need to wait until every last station in the whole entire network is upgraded before the first station can become operational and in that context Amtrak is running very far behind indeed.

 

[Cristobal]

I've seen this on the Capitol Corridor trains for at least the last 6~8 months. However, it seems that maybe less than half of the CC conductors have been trained and equipped to do this so far. They all still pull the ticket (after scanning it) and hand me the stub. The biggest difference is that they get a belt-side printout of the destination station code to use as a seat-check and they might also get a peak at my itinerary ("Only to Jack London Square?" "Yeah, on THIS train." ).

 

[AlanB]

I know airlines had it in the mid 1990s, but that's a poor comparison, unless anyone can cite an airline that offered eTicketing in a location without a physical gate or network connection, operating purely off a handheld device linked by cellular. Not at all disagreeing we're behind the times - I just think it's more like 5-8 years behind rather than 15.

Considering that it was the US market that initially pioneered and adopted e-tickets on a large scale I think other US passenger carriers are a better measure than foreign carriers. Here in the US Amtrak is just now experimenting with an extremely limited testbed rollout. In my view that puts them over a decade late compared to their domestic competitors. Another point I disagree with is the implication that new ticketing technology should only be rolled out when the whole entire network is ready for it. That's not how it happened with passenger airlines and I see no technical reason why that would be a necessary requirement for passenger railways either. From a technological perspective the NEC could have had e-ticketing a decade ago if it was a real priority. Trips composed of major stations along the LD network could have allowed e-ticketing as well while trips that included rural stops still required paper tickets. There's really no need to wait until every last station in the whole entire network is upgraded before the first station can become operational and in that context Amtrak is running very far behind indeed.

You're missing the point here. Yes, the US market pioneered e-tickets. But it's a whole lot easier when you're collecting those tickets at a fixed point that never moves and can easily be plugged into the internet. If the airlines were collecting the e-tickets onboard the plane 10 minutes after it rolled down the runway 20 years ago, then it would be fair to say that Amtrak is way behind on things. But the airlines don't do that; so there is no comparision to a conductor on a train in the middle of a corn field trying to verify an e-ticket.

That said, I do agree that Amtrak could have gotten things done sooner. And in fact Amtrak was working on e-tickets 10 years ago at the time that the Acela trains came online. In fact the cars were specifically designed for e-ticketing, with electronic displays over each seat that would after scanning the ticket (e or regular) would indicate that the seat was occupied and the destination of the person sitting there.

That program failed for several reasons including but not limited to, passenger revolts, conductors unhappy with both the very bulky at that time equipment and the potential loss of jobs, and programming issues. However, the biggest killer was that was during the "Glidepath" years where Amtrak was going to glide right into being self-sufficient.

When the initial funding ran out there was no hope for getting more to complete the project and it fell by the wayside. It took several years before any new funding was found and by that point technology had evolved so much that they basically just started over rather than trying to alter what was done.

 

[Gratt]

Any word on a wider roll out?

The e-ticketing communications team at Amtrak has provided sales employees with the following timetable in regards to e-ticketing.

• Early Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Capitol Corridor trains
• Late Dec - Pilot program continues on to include Long Distance trains
• Feb - e-ticketing pilot program transitions into actual e-ticketing
• Feb to May - Transition to "print anywhere" e-tickets across the national system, with completion slated for sometime in May 2012

Of course the above is just a loose estimate and time frame but it should give some sort of idea of where they're headed with this whole e-ticketing business. They gave us a nice little graphic outlining the whole thing. I'd provide a link to it as my source but it's on the Amtrak Intranet.

Thanks for that! It is great to hear there will be a full roll within a year. The question that now comes to mind is will this make it easier to create unstaffed stations and/or flag stops on the LD routes?

Say a town is 50+ miles from the nearest stop but the train passes though the town. If locals agree to build and maintain a station for Amtrak to use would they agree to stop there? Granted the host RR would have a say but what other obstacles would be in the way. :unsure:

 

[Trogdor]

Alan is right.

This system is based on a conductor hand-held device that is either an iphone or very similar to an iphone.

Last I checked, iphones were not available in the 1990s.

What wireless electronic devices were available 10-15 years ago? As I recall, you had cell phones, which could maybe do text messages. Anything with any sort of computing power (not to mention data network connectivity) was bulky and difficult to handle, not to mention unreliable. You need smartphones (or something similar) for etickets to work in a mobile environment.

And if you're going to compare it to airlines, it should be noted that even though "etickets" have existed since the 1990s, it has only been in the last 2-3 years or so that they have offered the possibility to print your own boarding pass at home, and in the last one or two years for a limited roll out of cell phone-based boarding passes. Before that, you still had to go to the counter and pick up your paper boarding pass from an agent or a machine, which is the equivalent of going to the Amtrak station on the day of departure and getting your ticket from a QuikTrak machine (which has been around for 10 years or so in the busier stations).

The lack of etickets has really only been a significant problem for those that board at unstaffed stations, and has been pointed out hundreds of times, there is no airline equivalent to an unstaffed station.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You're missing the point here. Yes, the US market pioneered e-tickets. But it's a whole lot easier when you're collecting those tickets at a fixed point that never moves and can easily be plugged into the internet. If the airlines were collecting the e-tickets onboard the plane 10 minutes after it rolled down the runway 20 years ago, then it would be fair to say that Amtrak is way behind on things. But the airlines don't do that; so there is no comparision to a conductor on a train in the middle of a corn field trying to verify an e-ticket.

You're missing the point that I'm not expecting corn fields to have portable scanners. Major passenger rail stations aren't any more mobile than major airports. In major train stations the tickets are generally collected just prior to boarding, much like a plane. Therefore it's not that hard to imagine major stations supporting e-tickets long ago while rural trips still required paper tickets.

Alan is right. This system is based on a conductor hand-held device that is either an iphone or very similar to an iphone. Last I checked, iphones were not available in the 1990s. What wireless electronic devices were available 10-15 years ago?

There have been portable scanners in commercial uses for at least two decades. That being said, the real beauty of e-ticketing is not the scanner technology or the wireless network. It's the ability to trust the ticket tracking system to the point that you no longer require millions of hard copies. Wireless scanner technology is not an absolute necessity for much of what makes e-ticketing so useful.

And if you're going to compare it to airlines, it should be noted that even though "etickets" have existed since the 1990s, it has only been in the last 2-3 years or so that they have offered the possibility to print your own boarding pass at home.

I've been printing my own domestic boarding passes at home shortly after the US government mandated them, which must be approaching a full decade now.

The lack of etickets has really only been a significant problem for those that board at unstaffed stations, and has been pointed out hundreds of times, there is no airline equivalent to an unstaffed station.

My station is staffed but only in the middle of the night. It also has no parking and during the first hour or two they're generally focused on receiving one or both of our trains. So you can show up around ten or eleven at night or fight it out with rush hour traffic trying to reach downtown before work in the morning but it's really not that convenient either way. In addition, even with my lucky staffed station if I lose or misplace my tickets or vouchers or if they get damaged or destroyed I'm just as screwed as Joe Bob out in the corn field. Normally I wait until the very last minute to print my tickets but then I started reading stories about people getting bumped from their rooms and QuikTrak kiosk's not working correctly and so I've started printing my tickets earlier. I try to be super careful with my paper tickets and treat them like cash but it's silly to have to babysit them this way when most of the rest of the world has long since moved to electronic ticketing.

 

[Gratt]

There have been portable scanners in commercial uses for at least two decades. That being said, the real beauty of e-ticketing is not the scanner technology or the wireless network. It's the ability to trust the ticket tracking system to the point that you no longer require millions of hard copies. Wireless scanner technology is not an absolute necessity for much of what makes e-ticketing so useful.

I've been printing my own domestic boarding passes at home shortly after the US government mandated them, which must be approaching a full decade now.

Seriously, what does it matter if we are talking about being 3 years or 15 years behind the times? They were and soon they wont be

My station is staffed but only in the middle of the night. It also has no parking and during the first hour or two they're generally focused on receiving one or both of our trains. So you can show up around ten or eleven at night or fight it out with rush hour traffic trying to reach downtown before work in the morning but it's really not that convenient either way. In addition, even with my lucky staffed station if I lose or misplace my tickets or vouchers or if they get damaged or destroyed I'm just as screwed as Joe Bob out in the corn field. Normally I wait until the very last minute to print my tickets but then I started reading stories about people getting bumped from their rooms and QuikTrak kiosk's not working correctly and so I've started printing my tickets earlier. I try to be super careful with my paper tickets and treat them like cash but it's silly to have to babysit them this way when most of the rest of the world has long since moved to electronic ticketing.

Ok, we get it, Amtrak is slow adapting to new technology, we can all argue about why that is the case, but seriously will soon be in the past and we will have the opportunity to judge the new system for ourselves.

Sometimes this forum sounds like a bunch of old men arguing how so and so was better back in the day. I rather focus on what good things this tech will do for Amtrak than B*tch about how long it took for them to adopt it! --rant off

 

[AlanB]

You're missing the point here. Yes, the US market pioneered e-tickets. But it's a whole lot easier when you're collecting those tickets at a fixed point that never moves and can easily be plugged into the internet. If the airlines were collecting the e-tickets onboard the plane 10 minutes after it rolled down the runway 20 years ago, then it would be fair to say that Amtrak is way behind on things. But the airlines don't do that; so there is no comparision to a conductor on a train in the middle of a corn field trying to verify an e-ticket.

You're missing the point that I'm not expecting corn fields to have portable scanners. Major passenger rail stations aren't any more mobile than major airports. In major train stations the tickets are generally collected just prior to boarding, much like a plane. Therefore it's not that hard to imagine major stations supporting e-tickets long ago while rural trips still required paper tickets.

I'm sorry, but that is not correct. Amtrak does not collect tickets just prior to boarding in most major stations; not even close. In fact the only major stations that I've boarded at lately where they collected tickets at the gate were in New Orleans, St. Louis, Seattle, and Portland, OR. And that is in direct violation of the policy outlined in the standards manual.

But board at any of the following stations and I can promise you that while your ticket might be checked, it won't be lifted until your onboard the train. Portland, ME; Boston; Albany; NYP; Philly; Wilmington; Baltimore; DC; Miami; Atlanta; Chicago; Cleveland; Toledo; LA; San Diego; Emeryville; Sacramento; and while it's been a number of years last I knew Dallas.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

whenever I board the Cap Ltd. in Pittsburgh or Chicago, I've had my ticket taken as I boarded the train. I always take room or roomette

 

[Cristobal]

You're missing the point here. Yes, the US market pioneered e-tickets. But it's a whole lot easier when you're collecting those tickets at a fixed point that never moves and can easily be plugged into the internet. If the airlines were collecting the e-tickets onboard the plane 10 minutes after it rolled down the runway 20 years ago, then it would be fair to say that Amtrak is way behind on things. But the airlines don't do that; so there is no comparision to a conductor on a train in the middle of a corn field trying to verify an e-ticket.

You're missing the point that I'm not expecting corn fields to have portable scanners. Major passenger rail stations aren't any more mobile than major airports. In major train stations the tickets are generally collected just prior to boarding, much like a plane. Therefore it's not that hard to imagine major stations supporting e-tickets long ago while rural trips still required paper tickets.

I'm sorry, but that is not correct. Amtrak does not collect tickets just prior to boarding in most major stations; not even close. In fact the only major stations that I've boarded at lately where they collected tickets at the gate were in New Orleans, St. Louis, Seattle, and Portland, OR. And that is in direct violation of the policy outlined in the standards manual.

But board at any of the following stations and I can promise you that while your ticket might be checked, it won't be lifted until your onboard the train. Portland, ME; Boston; Albany; NYP; Philly; Wilmington; Baltimore; DC; Miami; Atlanta; Chicago; Cleveland; Toledo; LA; San Diego; Emeryville; Sacramento; and while it's been a number of years last I knew Dallas.

I've had the conductor lift my ticket while waiting for the CS in the Traxx lounge at LAUS and also while waiting to board the SWC in the Metropolitan Lounge in CHI.

 

[PRR 60]

...That said, I do agree that Amtrak could have gotten things done sooner. And in fact Amtrak was working on e-tickets 10 years ago at the time that the Acela trains came online. In fact the cars were specifically designed for e-ticketing, with electronic displays over each seat that would after scanning the ticket (e or regular) would indicate that the seat was occupied and the destination of the person sitting there.

That program failed for several reasons including but not limited to, passenger revolts, conductors unhappy with both the very bulky at that time equipment and the potential loss of jobs, and programming issues. However, the biggest killer was that was during the "Glidepath" years where Amtrak was going to glide right into being self-sufficient.

When the initial funding ran out there was no hope for getting more to complete the project and it fell by the wayside. It took several years before any new funding was found and by that point technology had evolved so much that they basically just started over rather than trying to alter what was done.

There is one other reason the 1998 e-ticketing effort was abandoned, and it is the number one reason. After a $24 million expenditure with Motorola, it did not work, or at least it did not work very well. Here is what Amtrak told the FRA about the failure of the electronic ticketing system in a 2005 report on Amtrak's passenger accounting system.

The Amtrak officials interviewed provided several reasons as to why the Motorola effort was abandoned by Amtrak. One person said it was dropped because it could not provide real time information. Another noted that transmitting the data from the train to a central database was the problem at the time. Amtrak’s aspirations were much greater than what the technology (at that time) could deliver, and the system would have been extremely costly. Another mentioned that, when the system was tested by conductors on board, it was found to be a slow and cumbersome process. It reportedly took the conductors about 17 minutes (the interval between stations in this case) to use the scanning system to process 8 passengers; conductors should normally be able to process about 5 times that number of passengers in that time using manual methods.

 

[AlanB]

[i've had the conductor lift my ticket while waiting for the CS in the Traxx lounge at LAUS and also while waiting to board the SWC in the Metropolitan Lounge in CHI.

Yes, I've had that too, but that doesn't always happen (at least in the case of Chicago) and that is sleeper passengers only. Coach tickets are still collected onboard meaning no scanners plugged into the station.

 

[amamba]

Alan, I can't believe you left PVD off your list of major stations! :lol: Of course tickets there are collected on the train. Though I once saw a conductor checking tickets to make sure folks were getting on the right train - the acela - when there was a regional that was delayed and running right behind it. He was making sure folks ticketed for the regional weren't getting on the acela.

 

[AlanB]

Alan, I can't believe you left PVD off your list of major stations! :lol: Of course tickets there are collected on the train. Though I once saw a conductor checking tickets to make sure folks were getting on the right train - the acela - when there was a regional that was delayed and running right behind it. He was making sure folks ticketed for the regional weren't getting on the acela.

Quite right! I also should have included New Haven & Stamford and I'm sure there are plenty of others.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Seriously, what does it matter if we are talking about being 3 years or 15 years behind the times? They were and soon they wont be. Ok, we get it, Amtrak is slow adapting to new technology, we can all argue about why that is the case, but seriously will soon be in the past and we will have the opportunity to judge the new system for ourselves. Sometimes this forum sounds like a bunch of old men arguing how so and so was better back in the day. I rather focus on what good things this tech will do for Amtrak than B*tch about how long it took for them to adopt it! --rant off

A big thanks to whichever moderator silently rewrote Gratt's post so that it looks like he's joking around instead of cussing me out like a loose canon.

 

[Gratt]

Seriously, what does it matter if we are talking about being 3 years or 15 years behind the times? They were and soon they wont be. Ok, we get it, Amtrak is slow adapting to new technology, we can all argue about why that is the case, but seriously will soon be in the past and we will have the opportunity to judge the new system for ourselves. Sometimes this forum sounds like a bunch of old men arguing how so and so was better back in the day. I rather focus on what good things this tech will do for Amtrak than B*tch about how long it took for them to adopt it! --rant off

A big thanks to whichever moderator silently rewrote Gratt's post so that it looks like he's joking around instead of cussing me out like a loose canon.

What I cant joke and be a loose canon at the same time? :giggle: Seriously though I wrote the post to get your attention because you have a habit of starting the most inane arguments/debates. See your posts on VIA locomotive advertising, it was pointless and useless since we know so little about how the management works. The only point to it I can see is to pick a fight for the sake of arguing. Same thing here, who really cares how many years behind the airlines Amtrak is when it comes to ticketing, does bickering change it or prove you are right?

If you want to get all hot under the collar that is your prerogative, this will be my last post this subject