Empire Builder service cancelled

[ScottC4746]

This report says the train is shut down because of a few inches of water over the tracks.

Why not go straight to the source?

Yikes.

Which line(s) does Amtrak use?

The Empire Builder uses the Devils Lake subdivision, which is still blocked this morning. The other two washouts were fixed last night, so the train could use the Surrey cut-off through New Rockford. Mind you, this service doesn't count a washout on the old Milwaukee Road mainline earlier this week. BNSF crews have been very busy.

If the Empire Builder runs, the key phrase is "Customers may experience delays."

Here is the service alert on Amtrak's website.

"Service Alert: Empire Builder Service Disrupted between Minot, N.D. and St. Paul, Minn.

April 16, 2009

3:30 pm CT

BNSF Railway has informed Amtrak of the temporary closure of the route used by Amtrak Empire Builder in North Dakota. No detour route or other alternate service is available due to local flooding conditions and no date is available for the restoration of service.

Stations affected by this service disruption include Rugby, Devils Lake, Grand Forks and Fargo in N.D., and Detroit Lakes, Staples and St. Cloud in Minn.

Empire Builder, Train 7 & 27

The Empire Builder will operate westbound between Chicago and St. Paul and westbound between Minot, N.D., and Seattle/Portland. No service is available between St. Paul and Minot.

Empire Builder, Trains 8 & 28

The Empire Builder will operate eastbound between Portland/Seattle and Minot and eastbound between St. Paul and Chicago. No service is available between Minot and St. Paul.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates."

 

[Guest]

Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.

Michael

 

[jmbgeg]

Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.Michael

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

 

[guest]

Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.Michael

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

The video I saw Saturday AM only had the tracks left. All of the supports, even the concrete, culvert and stone were gone for about 100 feet.

:-(

 

[Sam31452]

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

Could it be:

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BRIDGE!!

I dont' know how fast rebuilding takes on in the US but over here in Europe this could cause an interruption until about June.

 

[jmbgeg]

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

Could it be:

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BRIDGE!!

I dont' know how fast rebuilding takes on in the US but over here in Europe this could cause an interruption until about June.

I don't know the track system well enough to know if there is a more circuitous route through North Dakota that would avoid the flooded tracks and washed out bridge(s). If it turns out that there is not, is Amtrak creative and nimble enough to fashion a mid-term temporary route that drops south of North Dakota, finds its way to MSP and then on to Chicago and the same in reverse; not only to serve the masses of ticketed passengers impacted daily by the service interuption, but to avoid having to refund hundreds and hundreds of paid fares? On a side issue, what happens to the crews when this happens? Do they get assigned to other routes or take unpaid vacation? I hope there is a situation room work group with Amtrak's best and brightest actively looking at solutions.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

Could it be:

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BRIDGE!!

I dont' know how fast rebuilding takes on in the US but over here in Europe this could cause an interruption until about June.

I don't know the track system well enough to know if there is a more circuitous route through North Dakota that would avoid the flooded tracks and washed out bridge(s). If it turns out that there is not, is Amtrak creative and nimble enough to fashion a mid-term temporary route that drops south of North Dakota, finds its way to MSP and then on to Chicago and the same in reverse; not only to serve the masses of ticketed passengers impacted daily by the service interuption, but to avoid having to refund hundreds and hundreds of paid fares? On a side issue, what happens to the crews when this happens? Do they get assigned to other routes or take unpaid vacation? I hope there is a situation room work group with Amtrak's best and brightest actively looking at solutions.

I can't imagine that Amtrak wouldn't find some way of getting pax around the disruption over the next few weeks. They have some of those trains book solid-- thousands of refunds, total loss to the company could easily hit seven figures. To midigate the damage I'm sure they will establish some way to make sure that pax can still get between SEA/PDX and CHI.

 

[timetoride]

:unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).

Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)

 

[MrFSS]

:unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).
Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)

HERE is a current news report and video. They say at least 2 weeks on the regular line. From the looks I wouldn't be surprised if it was longer.

Amtrak says till at least Sunday. Maybe they have some alternate plans being set up.

 

[Ispolkom]

:unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).
Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)

I wouldn't be too concerned, though my ticket from Washington DC to Minot is on May 25. West of the Twin Cities the Empire Builder runs on BNSF track. You can see their system map here, While the mainline from Minot to Grand Forks is out, that still leaves the Surrey Cutoff, which goes from Fargo directly to Minot. As far as I know, that route is more or less open, though I'm sure that it's slow and crowded right now. Failing that, I imagine that Amtrak might create a bus bridge, transferring passengers from train to buses in St. Paul, and back to train in Minot. I know they did send passengers in buses from St. Paul to Chicago last summer, when flooding east of here made the Empire Builder stop and start in St. Paul.

Looking at the BNSF map, one can imagine another route, heading south from Shelby through Great Falls, Billings, then heading east from Glendive on the old Northern Pacific mainline, parallel to I-94, to Fargo. Heck, you could even take the old Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension east from Terry through South Dakota, bringing Amtrak to that state for the first time, I think. I can't imagine that would be practicable, though. I have no idea how good the track is, and I imagine that BNSF wouldn't be interested in furnishing engineers who know the route.

Here's my view, and I'm a pretty inveterate pessimist: there are several ways that Amtrak can solve this problem, and they have most of a month to solve it before you travel. So don't worry. If you do, you're paying interest on a debt you might not owe.

I'll admit that's easy for me to say, since I have two more weeks on you.

 

[Edgefan]

Thanks to all for the links, knowledge and opinions. Wife and I are trying not to sweat it too much. We have an Empire departure out of Chicago to SEA on the eighth of May. Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Thanks to all for the links, knowledge and opinions. Wife and I are trying not to sweat it too much. We have an Empire departure out of Chicago to SEA on the eighth of May. Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark

Safest place to be is between the terminal stops-- that means if they run the train all the way through you'll be on it no matter how they get it through affected areas.

 

[Ispolkom]

Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark

No disagreement there.

 

[timetoride]

I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.

I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.

 

[Edgefan]

I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.
I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.

If this means anything, the bridge we lost (CRANDIC) last June in our flood is just now in the process of being rebuilt. That flood even tilted the 100 plus year concrete supports 45 degrees. It was a beautiful wrought iron span. I'm sure the new one will be a straightforward beamed bed with nothing for character. Mark

 

[jmbgeg]

I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.
I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.

Your expression of compassion for those locals whose lives, not just trips, have been imapcted by the floods. That is wholly appropriate and I second your statement.

Those of us having near term travel plans worrying about personal impacts and discussing contingency plans is not mutually exclusive with empathy for flood victims.

 

[Mark]

I just returned from Tomah WI on EB 8/28. It is still only running from MSP-CHI on the eastern side of the flood. The crew said Amtrak was playing it day by day.

The consist was:

P42

Coach

Coach

Coach-Cafe

One car was a Coach-Baggage, (not the middle one), but I forget which so I think there is still checked baggage available.

We ran solidly at 3 to 5 minutes early for each stop, closing with a good 40 or so minutes EARLY into Chicago!

Amtrak should consider running a MSP-CHI regular in addition to the EB.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I just returned from Tomah WI on EB 8/28. It is still only running from MSP-CHI on the eastern side of the flood. The crew said Amtrak was playing it day by day.
The consist was:

P42

Coach

Coach

Coach-Cafe

One car was a Coach-Baggage, (not the middle one), but I forget which so I think there is still checked baggage available.

We ran solidly at 3 to 5 minutes early for each stop, closing with a good 40 or so minutes EARLY into Chicago!

Amtrak should consider running a MSP-CHI regular in addition to the EB.

We're in peak time... which means they should be running train 807 too (if the train ran its normal schedule that is)

 

[allaboardamtrak]

Having just got off the phone with a very knowledgeable and friendly Amtrak representative, she mentioned that trains should be running CHI-SEA on Tuesday of next week. Hopefully it all works out well, and I know flooding has been a bare here in North Central Florida so my sympathies to anyone experiencing that in the midwest.

 

[Ispolkom]

Having just got off the phone with a very knowledgeable and friendly Amtrak representative, she mentioned that trains should be running CHI-SEA on Tuesday of next week. Hopefully it all works out well, and I know flooding has been a bare here in North Central Florida so my sympathies to anyone experiencing that in the midwest.

According to BNSF the line between Minot and Grand Forks will be closed for 10-12 days. Trains are running on the Surrey cutoff, but at reduced speeds. If the Empire Builder runs, I imagine that it will be on the latter route, and probably will run pretty late. That would be vastly preferable to a bus bridge, of course.

Is this the worst year ever for the Amtrak Empire Builder? Between the Iowa flooding last summer, the Christmas meltdown, and this, it's been quite a year, even if all my trips on that train have been just fine.

 

[Sam31452]

As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?

 

[Mark]

As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?

I don't know this for a fact but a few fellow passengers told me they heard that Amtrak was running people out of Chicago on the Southwest Chief to LA then up the coast on the Coast Starlight. Beyond that, (basically making a loop back to West Glacier), I don't know.

 

[p&sr]

What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?

The video I saw Saturday AM only had the tracks left. All of the supports, even the concrete, culvert and stone were gone for about 100 feet.

:-(

Shouldn't be any problem then. The TRACKS are the only part the Train ever touches! :lol:

 

[ns4eva]

As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?

Well, my fiancee and I for one hope you don't run into any delays on your EB trip as we will be on it in July as well headed to Essex, MT. Would be a bummer for us just to have a one day delay as we only plan to be there 2 full days and 3 nights (already pushing $3500 for our trip and that's a lot to a young guy from the hills of WV for vacation).

 

[EB_OBS]

BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.

Those trains are due through the affected area early Wednesday morning.