Exceptions to the 13-15 YO rule?

[Thirdrail7]

I am curious, does anyone in Amtrak have the authority to grant executive orders?

The CEO and his executive staff can grant executive orders.

Sure. I'm sure an executive order was probably what set the current Amtrak unaccompanied minors policy as well as what set the previous one. However, it's a really, really long stretch to think that they're going to implement an executive order to grant one minor (who can wait less than a year for that right) the right to ride alone.

I was merely answering a question. I wasn't suggesting a course of action, although it would be entertaining to see. Perhaps he should contact Lenore Skenazy and ask her to put the matter front and center in her Free-Range Kids initiative.

I can see the entry now: "Teenager isn't allowed to disembark on his own! Why not??"

 

[Lonestar648]

The headline would have Lawyers drooling, looking for anything where there could be a lawsuit and the publicity for their practice that accompanies any case involving a minor. The possibility that Amtrak would set a precedent by allowing a subjective interview to open a door for portential lawsuits should the minor receive the exemption and then have some incident occur. The Amtrak individual who signed off on the exception would have to be terminated in disgrace in a big media frenzy. $100,000's would be spent on legal fees by Amtrak.

I am not saying that something would happen, but we do not control the future and the uncontrollable circumstances. This is why corporations try to plan for as many "what ifs" with their legal teams as seems reasonable and affordable.

 

[BCL]

I am curious, does anyone in Amtrak have the authority to grant executive orders?

The CEO and his executive staff can grant executive orders.

Sure. I'm sure an executive order was probably what set the current Amtrak unaccompanied minors policy as well as what set the previous one. However, it's a really, really long stretch to think that they're going to implement an executive order to grant one minor (who can wait less than a year for that right) the right to ride alone.

I was merely answering a question. I wasn't suggesting a course of action, although it would be entertaining to see. Perhaps he should contact Lenore Skenazy and ask her to put the matter front and center in her Free-Range Kids initiative.

I can see the entry now: "Teenager isn't allowed to disembark on his own! Why not??"

I never got the sense of anyone on this topic (other than the OP) thinking it's a viable solution for the Amtrak executive staff to implement a one-off EO just to grant an exception.

 

[BCL]

The headline would have Lawyers drooling, looking for anything where there could be a lawsuit and the publicity for their practice that accompanies any case involving a minor. The possibility that Amtrak would set a precedent by allowing a subjective interview to open a door for portential lawsuits should the minor receive the exemption and then have some incident occur. The Amtrak individual who signed off on the exception would have to be terminated in disgrace in a big media frenzy. $100,000's would be spent on legal fees by Amtrak.

I am not saying that something would happen, but we do not control the future and the uncontrollable circumstances. This is why corporations try to plan for as many "what ifs" with their legal teams as seems reasonable and affordable.

Right now there is a subjective interview in the current unaccompanied minor policy, but I'm sure it's pretty basic and designed to be as reproducible as possible. Add to that they require staffed stations on both ends and a designated adult on the other end. They obviously require this to minimize their liability.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I was merely answering a question. I wasn't suggesting a course of action, although it would be entertaining to see. Perhaps he should contact Lenore Skenazy and ask her to put the matter front and center in her Free-Range Kids initiative.

I can see the entry now: "Teenager isn't allowed to disembark on his own! Why not??"

I never got the sense of anyone on this topic (other than the OP) thinking it's a viable solution for the Amtrak executive staff to implement a one-off EO just to grant an exception.

I wish you'd stop ruining my fun, BCL. You're as bad as Lonestar648 who keeps interrupting with pertinent facts.

Norfolkwesternhenry,, remember that if you want something in life, you can't always wait for it to come to you. You have to be proactive. A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step. You should write a letter to the CEO and tell him about your book. Tell him you desire to be a "Free Range Kid," and tell him that you'd happily comply with the requirements except they keep closing stations and eliminating personnel! Take a page from NJT and LIRR. Turn the tables and blame Amtrak for your inability to travel to a staffed station and demand satisfaction! Blitz them with your past itineraries and show them how much revenue you've brought to Amtrak and ask them are they willing to chase away a constant rider, that has many future rides on the horizon?

Close your letter by saying you're as reliable as the West Palm Beach students...and you don't require an extra consist. Don't just sit there and take it like Greenville and Sebring passengers that lost their luggage service (and seemingly still haven't written letters!!) Go for it!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!! You have nothing to lose!!

 

[Triley]

Well that was an unusually inspiring talk coming from TR.

 

[BCL]

Well that was an unusually inspiring talk coming from TR.

Maybe they hire him like they did with Anthony. I doubt they make a policy exception for him though,

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I was thinking much more in depth, like an hour long interview to determine the capability of the traveler. Or perhaps an executive order of some sort

Now you're just being silly or perhaps stubborn. Perhaps you're not trying to be, but do you understand how strange that sounds to anyone who has dealt with real world customer service? That's just naive to think that Amtrak is going to devote an hour of an employee's time interviewing a 15 year old. With their current policy it's probably just a few questions asking if the minors knows where they're going, who is meeting them, and if they can follow/remember directions.

I'm not trying to be stubborn, although sometimes it's hard to tell just from words on a screen. I have a picture on my wall, of a poster of the ten rules of business, and they all start with A CUSTOMER, and how the customer is the business, as without the customer, the business wouldn't exist. I feel like Amtrak should set up a program for that.

 

[BCL]

I was thinking much more in depth, like an hour long interview to determine the capability of the traveler. Or perhaps an executive order of some sort

Now you're just being silly or perhaps stubborn. Perhaps you're not trying to be, but do you understand how strange that sounds to anyone who has dealt with real world customer service? That's just naive to think that Amtrak is going to devote an hour of an employee's time interviewing a 15 year old. With their current policy it's probably just a few questions asking if the minors knows where they're going, who is meeting them, and if they can follow/remember directions.

I'm not trying to be stubborn, although sometimes it's hard to tell just from words on a screen. I have a picture on my wall, of a poster of the ten rules of business, and they all start with A CUSTOMER, and how the customer is the business, as without the customer, the business wouldn't exist. I feel like Amtrak should set up a program for that.

I used to think like that - that if I was ever in business I would always put the customer first and foremost. However, in the real world it's not as simple as a motivational poster. Real customer service costs human resources and money. It's always a balancing act as to providing such service against costs. Just look at what's happening with Amtrak. They've cut food service to try to tighten the budget. They're removing staffing from stations to cut costs. Other businesses are moving customer service operators to India to save on costs. They changed the unaccompanied minor policy from 8-15 to 13-15 to reduce the need for Amtrak personnel to handle kids. They're constantly trying to justify their federal funding. Now supposed some Congress member finds out that Amtrak has changed its policy to allow an unaccompanied minor to go from a staffed station to an unstaffed station at the cost of an hour of a station agent's time spent interviewing the kid. Do you really think that won't be seen as a monumental waste of time, when it would be far easier to just keep the policy as is?

A business won't exist if they're putting their already limited resources into a money losing proposition serving a small customer base. And what you're asking for is for Amtrak to lose even more money than they do for their existing customer base. I haven't been involved in detailed business planning, but I did work at a smalishl company during all-hands meetings where customizing our product for potential customers were being discussed. The question inevitably devolved into "How much is this going to cost us, and how many people in this customer base might consider our product?"

 

[jebr]

Putting the customer first doesn't necessarily mean putting each individual customer first - it can (and should) mean putting the customer base first. In Amtrak's case, that probably means having a fairly strict rule on minors to help lower costs; most customers (and even prospective customers) would see no advantage to the rule and would see their price for travel go up a disproportionate amount or have a worse customer service experience because of it. I don't think there's any fee that could be imposed for such a circumstance that would allow the costs of the program to be recovered - the employee time for the interview alone would probably be $40-$50 (or more) especially when benefits and overhead are included. Add in the start-up cost for creating the rules for such a program (how would you even measure if someone is capable enough to take a train alone with any sort of objectivity? I'm sure a consultant could figure it out for a nice chunk of change, but it doesn't seem simple), the administration cost (how do you make sure the person taking the interview is the one traveling both directions? What if someone wants to travel from an unstaffed station to a staffed station? Unstaffed station to unstaffed station?) and increased liability concerns (what if Amtrak leaves a child at an unstaffed station without a responsible adult and something happens to that child before they get into the responsible adult's custody?) and it makes any fee to try and recover the costs of the program higher than what the vast majority of people will pay - almost certainly not enough people would pay it to make the program cost-neutral.

It's much simpler for Amtrak to have a policy from staffed station to staffed station (paperwork filled out, have the child in Amtrak's custody until the responsible party arrives at the destination station and IDs can be checked, if no one comes after x time hand the child over to the local police) than to try and deal with all the variables and liability with having a child depart at an unstaffed station.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 

[BCL]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Now you're just being silly. You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you? Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it? Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?

All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here. A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.

In short, you have no shot. Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction. Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is. You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.

 

[Lonestar648]

I fully agree. You are young, with decades of learning in front of you. As a mature young man, if you will step back a minute, separate yourself from the situation, then be objective and sit on the other side of the desk as the manager you are writing, who is working 10 - 12 hours a day with regular meetings that must be prepared in detail in advance,a flow of people wanting instant decisions, etc. If your letter made it past the manager's Executive Assistant, if you are the manager, be honest how would you handle this precedent setting request? Would you take valuable time to do the research, when you have a critical preparation that has a hard deadline. Would you take this to your boss requesting his support to set a precedent change to an existing approved corporate policy. And also his approval to pay the legal team to analyze the liability aspects at hundreds of dollars per hour to the department budget. Be the manager, find the pros and the cons for Amtrak. By the way, you should always find in any decision you make, at least three pros and three cons, if you don't you are not being objective.

I hope this helps you. The best of luck in everything you do.

 

[Ryan]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Your best shot is to realize the rules apply to you and forget it.

Your inability to do so indicates that you don't have the maturity you think you do and is making the case that in an alternative reality where such waivers exist that you wouldn't qualify.

 

[jebr]

It seems like it'd be easier to rally community support to get the Columbus station re-staffed than it would be to try and convince Amtrak to loosen their underage child policy for unstaffed stations.

 

[zephyr17]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Not...going...to...happen.

 

[fairviewroad]

I was thinking much more in depth, like an hour long interview to determine the capability of the traveler. Or perhaps an executive order of some sort

Great news! I pulled some strings, and ...

 

[jis]

ROTFL!

 

[JayPea]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[BCL]

I started thinking about this, and there is basically one way to do this, and that's find someone at least 18 to go with you. Pretty simple. No rules are broken and no exceptions are needed.

I started thinking about what it would be like if perhaps someone like the President's kid wanted to take Amtrak as an unaccompanied minor. That lasted about 10 seconds. The kid would have a Secret Service detail serving as the responsible adult. On top of that they would be considered on-duty law enforcement, so they would be allowed to carry their weapons. Didn't Biden ride Amtrak while he was VP? I know his trip back home after the inauguration was via Amtrak. I think he still gets a Secret Service detail for a few months. And I remember Chris Christie was on Amtrak, and I'm pretty sure he got his own protective detail.

 

[daybeers]

I started thinking about this, and there is basically one way to do this, and that's find someone at least 18 to go with you. Pretty simple. No rules are broken and no exceptions are needed.

I started thinking about what it would be like if perhaps someone like the President's kid wanted to take Amtrak as an unaccompanied minor. That lasted about 10 seconds. The kid would have a Secret Service detail serving as the responsible adult. On top of that they would be considered on-duty law enforcement, so they would be allowed to carry their weapons. Didn't Biden ride Amtrak while he was VP? I know his trip back home after the inauguration was via Amtrak. I think he still gets a Secret Service detail for a few months. And I remember Chris Christie was on Amtrak, and I'm pretty sure he got his own protective detail.

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.

 

[BCL]

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.

I wasn't sure if he did that a whole lot while he was VP. I do remember that he was a huge Amtrak proponent, and that he rode Amtrak home after leaving office.

 

[daybeers]

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.

I wasn't sure if he did that a whole lot while he was VP. I do remember that he was a huge Amtrak proponent, and that he rode Amtrak home after leaving office.

I don't know if he used Amtrak a lot while VP, but he certainly did when he was a Senator.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Now you're just being silly. You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you? Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it? Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?

All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here. A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.

In short, you have no shot. Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction. Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is. You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.

sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Now you're just being silly. You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you? Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it? Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?

All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here. A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.

In short, you have no shot. Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction. Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is. You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.

sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.

Asking for an exception isn't trying to change the rules. It's asking for special privileges.