Favorite Sleeper Equipment

[thedude]

Just choose a awnser.

 

[Viewliner]

Viewliner (Of Course). I find they have the most interesting background of any equipment Amtrak owns. Granted, they're not the most well built, but they're still running (excluding prototypes). What's nice is to have that window on the upper berth to look out of at night. Also it helps that there are movies in each room that (typically) play. It allows entertainment for the younger riders (like my 5 yr old little brother) and even the older ones, in the privacy and comfort of their room. I think there is definite potential for a full fleet, provided we secure the funds and a good builder.

It also gives passengers a toilet/sink in the standard room, which while some may not enjoy as much as others, its better than having to wait for a Bathroom in the sleeper.

Also, Storage Wise, for luggage each Viewliner room offers more than a Superliner.

The only advantages to a Superliner really are its capacity, and being up higher from the wheels.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I love the standard bedrooms on Viewliner-(you can't beat the "lighting" effect)--the standard bedroom on a superliner is sort of a "nothing", without a lavatory and toilet. Might as well be an old "section" from the past But my favorite deluxe room is on a superliner just because of the height....also I am more used to those, have ridden in them more. With only two deluxe rooms in a Viewliner ( of course not counting the acccessible) harder to come by them.

 

[Amfleet]

I voted for the Superliner. The ride is smoother, especially on the upper-level, the noise seems less than a Viewliner, the lighting is dim unlike the floursecent lights in a Viewliner, and when traveling with another person it's nice not to have a toilet and vanety in the room. Also, the Deluxe Room on a Superliner seems more spacious floor wise that on a Viewliner.

 

[battalion51]

I too voted for the Superliner. While I do like the idea behind the Viewliner, it was a poorly designed and built car. The lighting is garish in the hallways, especially at night. There are more often than not failures of some piece of equipment in your room. For example, on Monday I was relaxing in one of the sleepers with the Conductor. When it became time for light to be needed the lights would not turn on, as the buttons were broken. Also, the Viewliner has fundamental problems, i.e. plumbing in the ceiling (need I say more). The Superliners on the other hand were built right, utilizing steel walls, carpeting, and other features, where the Viewliner uses plastic. As Amfleet said the ride is much smoother on the Superliner, and vaccum system barely noticeable, as most facilities are downstairs. All in all the Superliner is the better car.

 

[Amfleet]

I also remember Miami Joe saying the air-conditioners in the Viewliners would never cool the car evenly and one end would be quite warm and the other too cold. I forgot to mention the vaccum system in the Viewliner as well. It drove me nuts on the Silver Meteor last year with passengers were making their "three in the morning run". I always went to use the restrooms in the Lounge.

 

[thedude]

I liked Superliners better for the following reasons:

1) You are higher off the ground.

2) I found that you saw the train attendant alot more than you do on Viewliner (for some people this may be a bad thing)

3) You get much more of a communtiy type feel.

5) As said above, the superliners seem to be built alot better.

Dude

 

[AlanB]

1) You are higher off the ground.

I find it interesting that several people have mentioned this in the survey. Yes, it is true that the upper level is higher off the ground. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that there is a lower level too. That lower level is actually even closer to the rails than any bedroom in a Viewliner.

That upper level can also be a major impediment to the mobility impaired. Yes there are some who need a wheel chair and cannot even leave their bedroom at all while on a train. However there are others who can move about the train carefully, but cannot climb the narrow winding stairs in a Superliner. So they are in effect trapped on the lower level and cut off from all the dining car and lounge car experiences.

2) I found that you saw the train attendant alot more than you do on Viewliner (for some people this may be a bad thing)

That seems very odd to me. There are far more people for the attendant to deal with and far more places for him to hide. Based upon my own observations, I've found that a good attendant will always be visible and a bad one will always be hiding. I suspect that Tubaallen will agree with me on this, as he has worked as a sleeping car attendant for Amtrak.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the type of sleeper, its mainly the attitude of the attendant and maybe a little bit dependent on the passenger load. In fact, if you check out my trip report from last December, the worst attendant I had was on a Superliner. The best was on a Viewliner, although the attendant on the City of New Orleans ran a close second.

3) You get much more of a communtiy type feel.

Frankly, I tend to find myself bonding with my fellow passengers more on a Viewliner than I do on a Superliner. That however may be do to the fact that I'll usually book a standard room on a Viewliner, but a deluxe room on a Superliner.

5) As said above, the superliners seem to be built alot better.

No argument on that one. However that's simply the way construction of anything has gone. Cars, toasters, trains, and just about anything else you buy today are made of lighter weight materials that are more easily broken, than a similar product built 20-30 or more years ago. Had the Viewliner design be built and embraced by Budd, they would have been just as sturdy as a Superliner.

Put simply the Viewliner was born too late. If and when Amtrak gets to order more Superliners, expect them to have many of the same problems, as the Viewliners.

I think that each type of sleeper has its charm. I suspect that if Amtrak ever orders more sleepers in the future, that you will see a marriage of the best features from both cars in the new generation.

My personal favorite though still remains, the Viewliner. The best feature, that double row of windows. It makes the room so much brighter and inviting than the Superliner rooms. Plus it gives the person on the upper bed a view at night.

 

[tubaallen]

2) I found that you saw the train attendant alot more than you do on Viewliner (for some people this may be a bad thing)

That seems very odd to me. There are far more people for the attendant to deal with and far more places for him to hide. Based upon my own observations, I've found that a good attendant will always be visible and a bad one will always be hiding. I suspect that Tubaallen will agree with me on this, as he has worked as a sleeping car attendant for Amtrak.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the type of sleeper, its mainly the attitude of the attendant and maybe a little bit dependent on the passenger load. In fact, if you check out my trip report from last December, the worst attendant I had was on a Superliner. The best was on a Viewliner, although the attendant on the City of New Orleans ran a close second.

Alan, you're absolutely right. I think a good attendant will be visable, whereas a poor one would not. I think (hope) that most of my passengers would say the first comment about me.

However, you know what a very strange trend was that I noticed? The one viewliner trip I worked was once on the LSL to Boston (but I ended at Albany, because of track work), and the passengers I had on that sleeper seemed very to themselves. It seemed like the only time they wanted to see me was if it was for a particular reason. And even then, they didn't seem very sociable most the time. Yet, on my CZ trips and so forth, the passengers were the complete opposite. Heck, they wanted me to come in and sit down and just chat with them about life and stuff. It was kinda nice how friendly everyone was...the only problem was that I wasn't getting enough time to get everything done that I needed to!!! (Which is sort of a nice problem, hehe.)

 

[Viewliner]

So its probably safe to say that no sleeper is really better than the other. I agree that its not fair to make assumptions that the crew in one type of car will be better than the other. I've really only had one or two bad attendants in a Viewliner Sleeper. I'll be mentioning that in my trip report, that I'll finish typing this weekend. Its obvious which one I prefer (The only one I've been in), but not really that which one is better.

It does seem that the Viewliner is a little more "passenger friendly," in that it has the Videos in each room, Windows on both Berths, Restroom in every room, and as Alan mentioned a Handicapped individual isn't confined to one car on a Single Level train.

To "thedude", how many times have you travelled on each type of equipment?

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

Had the Viewliner design be built and embraced by Budd, they would have been just as sturdy as a Superliner.
Put simply the Viewliner was born too late.  If and when Amtrak gets to order more Superliners, expect them to have many of the same problems, as the Viewliners.

I think the quality of the car has more to do with what materials the car was built with, not when it was built. Remember that Superliner II cars were built only a couple of years before the Viewliners. I don't think anyone would say that the Superliner I's, which were built by Pullman-Standard, are more sturdy than the Superliner II's, which were built by Bombadier. The big difference that I see between the Superliner II's and the Viewliners is the quality of the materials used in the construction of the cars. Bombadier built the Superliner II's using stronger materials that were probably similar, if not identical to the Superliner I's, whereas Amerail used materials that weren't as strong in the Viewliners. I would dare to venture that if the Viewliners were built using similar materials to the Superliners, they'd probably be just as sturdy.

All that being said, I will agree that if Amtrak decides to use lighter materials for a (hopefully) future order of Superliner III's, those Superliners will not be as sturdy as the Superliner I's and II's. If, on the other hand, Amtrak continues to use the specifications that were used to build the Superliner I's and II's, the Superliner III's will be just as solid as the previous Superliners.

 

[Viewliner]

We Definitely need a Viewliner Fleet though before we can start with Superliner III's, I mean come on, how much longer do those of you in the west want us to deal with the Heritage Equipment, which can't last forever. Keep in mind, Morrison Knudsen was the original builder until they went bankrupt and Amerail took over. The Viewliners are nice, but definitely could've been built better.

 

[AlanB]

EB,

I do agree that it is technically possible to build a Superliner III, or for that matter a new Viewliner II, to the specs of a Superliner I or II. However it is also highly unlikely that it would ever happen.

In today's world the cost factors are to great to permit that type of construction, especially with Amtrak's current budget. The plastics and modular construction, which are part of the Viewliner's bane, are here to stay. It simply costs way too much to build them like they used to. One would actually have to get manufacturers like Bombardier to completely retool their factories in order to build train cars to the old specs. No manufacturer is going to do that, unless he’s getting one whopper of a contract. So unless Congress and the White House suddenly and unexpectedly wake up and smell the coffee, giving Amtrak the five to six billion annually that they both need and deserve, there won’t be any long term contracts.

 

[battalion51]

I still think that the next generation of trains that Amtrak buys should be something similar to those of European trains. While I do realize Americans and Europeans have their differences when it comes to travel, the Europeans are also the leaders in trains. With regards to the plastic construction, it stinks. Not only is it paper thin, but also it will be hazardous if there is ever a major crash involving Viewliners that is similar to that of the AT crash (whose 1 year anniversary is tomorrow). One of the Conductors that I frequently ride with (and is also a Firefighter) has said that if a major crash occurs the cars will fall apart like a deck of cars. If fire gets involved your are looking at large amounts of toxic poisons being emitted, smoke, and the beginnings of brain esfixy (due to a lack of oxygen). It is only a matter of time before Amtrak realizes that is messed up royally.

 

[AlanB]

I still think that the next generation of trains that Amtrak buys should be something similar to those of European trains. While I do realize Americans and Europeans have their differences when it comes to travel, the Europeans are also the leaders in trains. With regards to the plastic construction, it stinks. Not only is it paper thin, but also it will be hazardous if there is ever a major crash involving Viewliners that is similar to that of the AT crash (whose 1 year anniversary is tomorrow). One of the Conductors that I frequently ride with (and is also a Firefighter) has said that if a major crash occurs the cars will fall apart like a deck of cars. If fire gets involved your are looking at large amounts of toxic poisons being emitted, smoke, and the beginnings of brain esfixy (due to a lack of oxygen). It is only a matter of time before Amtrak realizes that is messed up royally.

Well the Eurpean trains use even more plastic in their trains, than we do here. Remember that trains here in the US must withstand a far more crushing impact than trains in Europe. So they are forced to use more steal in the construction of our railcars than they are in Europe.

Additionally, as the sad case of the crash of City of New Orleans at Bourbonnais in 1999 proved, the Superliner's have more than enough toxic plastics to kill you. While several people were killed by the actual accident and fire, a few were killed by the toxic smoke.

 

[Amfleet]

To put it simply Viewliners are eggs in a egg carton. Each room was prefabricated then slipped into the car, hence that welded up door where Rooms 1 and 2 are. The units seems to be made of a fiberglass material with a plastic coating. Now go and bang a carton of eggs with a hammer, your result will be "messy".

 

[AlanB]

Each room was prefabricated then slipped into the car, hence that welded up door where Rooms 1 and 2 are.

That's what modular construction means.

The units seems to be made of a fiberglass material with a plastic coating. Now go and bang a carton of eggs with a hammer, your result will be "messy".

Trust me, if your train hits a truck like the CONY did in 1999 going 90 MPH, it isn't going to matter too much if your room is plastic or steel. You are going to be badly hurt, if not dead. While the steel room might not buckle as much as the plastic, you are going to be hurt far worse when you hit that steel wall than the plastic one.

In fact the resilencey of plastic and fiberglass, might actually protect you better. Steel will buckle and deform, plastic will pop right back into shape.

Plus when it comes to fire, neither type of construction is going to matter. You are still in big trouble.

 

[battalion51]

Well the modular construction was actually put into place for a different reason on the Viewliner. The original idea was that if one room was B/O'd the single room could be reomved, rather than taking the whole car out of service, thus providing more cars for revenue, and fewer protect cars being needed.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

We Definitely need a Viewliner Fleet though before we can start with Superliner III's, I mean come on, how much longer do those of you in the west want us to deal with the Heritage Equipment, which can't last forever.

No, you can't have new equipment. We want it all! (Just kidding! )

I agree that Amtrak should replace the Heritage cars before they consider buying Superliner III's. In an ideal world, Amtrak would have already replaced all of the Heritage fleet long ago, but that hasn't happened. Once Amtrak does replace the old equipment, then they'll probably start looking a Superliner III series.

Keep in mind, Morrison Knudsen was the original builder until they went bankrupt and Amerail took over.  The Viewliners are nice, but definitely could've been built better.

Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten than Morrison Knudsen began the Viewliner project.

 

[thedude]

I'll admit, I have travled on Superliners a little more than Viewliners, so prehaps I'm a bit biast.

Also, maby I had a worse car attendant on the viewliners.

Clearly, it's a matter of choice.

No type is any better than the other.

 

[Amfleet]

Well the modular construction was actually put into place for a different reason on the Viewliner. The original idea was that if one room was B/O'd the single room could be reomved, rather than taking the whole car out of service, thus providing more cars for revenue, and fewer protect cars being needed.

I don't think so. It is not like the rooms can just be taken out and removed. Once they were put into place all the plumbing and electrical was hooked up with the rest of the car to make a complete circuit. Also the rooms must be secured pretty tightly to the surrounding car shell. In order to remove one of the units rooms 1 or 2 would have to be removed along with the "giant door". I don't think tis would save time in fixing a bad ordered room.

 

[AlanB]

Clearly, it's a matter of choice.
No type is any better than the other.

I think that you summed it up quite nicely there, Dude.

Both the Superliner and the Viewliner have there own charm and their own flaws. That's one reason that I've been saying for years, that if and when Amtrak gets enough money for new sleeper cars of either style, that Amtrak must take the best features of both to create the new versions of Superliner and Viewliner sleepers.

 

[AlanB]

Well the modular construction was actually put into place for a different reason on the Viewliner. The original idea was that if one room was B/O'd the single room could be reomved, rather than taking the whole car out of service, thus providing more cars for revenue, and fewer protect cars being needed.

I don't think so. It is not like the rooms can just be taken out and removed. Once they were put into place all the plumbing and electrical was hooked up with the rest of the car to make a complete circuit. Also the rooms must be secured pretty tightly to the surrounding car shell. In order to remove one of the units rooms 1 or 2 would have to be removed along with the "giant door". I don't think tis would save time in fixing a bad ordered room.

I agree with Amfleet. It would not be a simple matter to swap out a room. As Amfleet already mentioned you would have to remove the room nearest the giant door, along with that door. However let's pretend for a minute that room #10 was bad ordered.

Not only would you need to remove room #2, you would also have to remove #'s 4, 6, & 8. Otherwise you can't get room #10 down the length of the car and out the door. The room simply won't fit down the hall, after all its a little too wide. That would mean unhooking 4 other rooms along with all the plumbing and electrical connections, just to change room #10. That's simply not practical.

Now there is one area where I could see the modular construction helping. That would be during a major refurbishment. Then it would make sense to remove all of the rooms and simply slide new ones or the rebuilt ones back into the shell.

 

[Amfleet]

That would be during a major refurbishment. Then it would make sense to remove all of the rooms and simply slide new ones or the rebuilt ones back into the shell.

That is an interesting though, I had never thought of that. Amtrak should've done that with the two prototype sleepers when the other 50 were being built.

 

[thedude]

Clearly, it's a matter of choice.
No type is any better than the other.

I think that you summed it up quite nicely there, Dude.

Both the Superliner and the Viewliner have there own charm and their own flaws. That's one reason that I've been saying for years, that if and when Amtrak gets enough money for new sleeper cars of either style, that Amtrak must take the best features of both to create the new versions of Superliner and Viewliner sleepers.

That's a very good idea.

The Dude