I find it interesting that several people have mentioned this in the survey. Yes, it is true that the upper level is higher off the ground. However, everyone seems to be forgetting that there is a lower level too. That lower level is actually even closer to the rails than any bedroom in a Viewliner.thedude said:1) You are higher off the ground.
That seems very odd to me. There are far more people for the attendant to deal with and far more places for him to hide. Based upon my own observations, I've found that a good attendant will always be visible and a bad one will always be hiding. I suspect that Tubaallen will agree with me on this, as he has worked as a sleeping car attendant for Amtrak.thedude said:2) I found that you saw the train attendant alot more than you do on Viewliner (for some people this may be a bad thing)
Frankly, I tend to find myself bonding with my fellow passengers more on a Viewliner than I do on a Superliner. That however may be do to the fact that I'll usually book a standard room on a Viewliner, but a deluxe room on a Superliner.thedude said:3) You get much more of a communtiy type feel.
No argument on that one. However that's simply the way construction of anything has gone. Cars, toasters, trains, and just about anything else you buy today are made of lighter weight materials that are more easily broken, than a similar product built 20-30 or more years ago. Had the Viewliner design be built and embraced by Budd, they would have been just as sturdy as a Superliner.thedude said:5) As said above, the superliners seem to be built alot better.
Alan, you're absolutely right. I think a good attendant will be visable, whereas a poor one would not. I think (hope) that most of my passengers would say the first comment about me.AlanB said:That seems very odd to me. There are far more people for the attendant to deal with and far more places for him to hide. Based upon my own observations, I've found that a good attendant will always be visible and a bad one will always be hiding. I suspect that Tubaallen will agree with me on this, as he has worked as a sleeping car attendant for Amtrak.thedude said:2) I found that you saw the train attendant alot more than you do on Viewliner (for some people this may be a bad thing)
It doesn't really have anything to do with the type of sleeper, its mainly the attitude of the attendant and maybe a little bit dependent on the passenger load. In fact, if you check out my trip report from last December, the worst attendant I had was on a Superliner. The best was on a Viewliner, although the attendant on the City of New Orleans ran a close second.
I think the quality of the car has more to do with what materials the car was built with, not when it was built. Remember that Superliner II cars were built only a couple of years before the Viewliners. I don't think anyone would say that the Superliner I's, which were built by Pullman-Standard, are more sturdy than the Superliner II's, which were built by Bombadier. The big difference that I see between the Superliner II's and the Viewliners is the quality of the materials used in the construction of the cars. Bombadier built the Superliner II's using stronger materials that were probably similar, if not identical to the Superliner I's, whereas Amerail used materials that weren't as strong in the Viewliners. I would dare to venture that if the Viewliners were built using similar materials to the Superliners, they'd probably be just as sturdy.AlanB said:Had the Viewliner design be built and embraced by Budd, they would have been just as sturdy as a Superliner.
Put simply the Viewliner was born too late. If and when Amtrak gets to order more Superliners, expect them to have many of the same problems, as the Viewliners.
Well the Eurpean trains use even more plastic in their trains, than we do here. Remember that trains here in the US must withstand a far more crushing impact than trains in Europe. So they are forced to use more steal in the construction of our railcars than they are in Europe.battalion51 said:I still think that the next generation of trains that Amtrak buys should be something similar to those of European trains. While I do realize Americans and Europeans have their differences when it comes to travel, the Europeans are also the leaders in trains. With regards to the plastic construction, it stinks. Not only is it paper thin, but also it will be hazardous if there is ever a major crash involving Viewliners that is similar to that of the AT crash (whose 1 year anniversary is tomorrow). One of the Conductors that I frequently ride with (and is also a Firefighter) has said that if a major crash occurs the cars will fall apart like a deck of cars. If fire gets involved your are looking at large amounts of toxic poisons being emitted, smoke, and the beginnings of brain esfixy (due to a lack of oxygen). It is only a matter of time before Amtrak realizes that is messed up royally.
That's what modular construction means.Amfleet said:Each room was prefabricated then slipped into the car, hence that welded up door where Rooms 1 and 2 are.
Trust me, if your train hits a truck like the CONY did in 1999 going 90 MPH, it isn't going to matter too much if your room is plastic or steel. You are going to be badly hurt, if not dead. While the steel room might not buckle as much as the plastic, you are going to be hurt far worse when you hit that steel wall than the plastic one.Amfleet said:The units seems to be made of a fiberglass material with a plastic coating. Now go and bang a carton of eggs with a hammer, your result will be "messy".
No, you can't have new equipment. We want it all! (Just kidding! )Viewliner said:We Definitely need a Viewliner Fleet though before we can start with Superliner III's, I mean come on, how much longer do those of you in the west want us to deal with the Heritage Equipment, which can't last forever.
Thank you for reminding me. I had forgotten than Morrison Knudsen began the Viewliner project.Viewliner said:Keep in mind, Morrison Knudsen was the original builder until they went bankrupt and Amerail took over. The Viewliners are nice, but definitely could've been built better.
I don't think so. It is not like the rooms can just be taken out and removed. Once they were put into place all the plumbing and electrical was hooked up with the rest of the car to make a complete circuit. Also the rooms must be secured pretty tightly to the surrounding car shell. In order to remove one of the units rooms 1 or 2 would have to be removed along with the "giant door". I don't think tis would save time in fixing a bad ordered room.battalion51 said:Well the modular construction was actually put into place for a different reason on the Viewliner. The original idea was that if one room was B/O'd the single room could be reomved, rather than taking the whole car out of service, thus providing more cars for revenue, and fewer protect cars being needed.
I think that you summed it up quite nicely there, Dude.thedude said:Clearly, it's a matter of choice.
No type is any better than the other.
I agree with Amfleet. It would not be a simple matter to swap out a room. As Amfleet already mentioned you would have to remove the room nearest the giant door, along with that door. However let's pretend for a minute that room #10 was bad ordered.Amfleet said:I don't think so. It is not like the rooms can just be taken out and removed. Once they were put into place all the plumbing and electrical was hooked up with the rest of the car to make a complete circuit. Also the rooms must be secured pretty tightly to the surrounding car shell. In order to remove one of the units rooms 1 or 2 would have to be removed along with the "giant door". I don't think tis would save time in fixing a bad ordered room.battalion51 said:Well the modular construction was actually put into place for a different reason on the Viewliner. The original idea was that if one room was B/O'd the single room could be reomved, rather than taking the whole car out of service, thus providing more cars for revenue, and fewer protect cars being needed.
That is an interesting though, I had never thought of that. Amtrak should've done that with the two prototype sleepers when the other 50 were being built.That would be during a major refurbishment. Then it would make sense to remove all of the rooms and simply slide new ones or the rebuilt ones back into the shell.
AlanB said:I think that you summed it up quite nicely there, Dude.thedude said:Clearly, it's a matter of choice.
No type is any better than the other.
Both the Superliner and the Viewliner have there own charm and their own flaws. That's one reason that I've been saying for years, that if and when Amtrak gets enough money for new sleeper cars of either style, that Amtrak must take the best features of both to create the new versions of Superliner and Viewliner sleepers.
That's a very good idea.
The Dude