From the CNN site - about lost Amtrak tickets

[cnyrider]

I haven't posted here in ages, but thought this was worth mentioning. I just hope it's not in a thread already. I've done some looking and some searching and haven't seen it. My apologies if I've missed it.

This is dated yesterday: it's a letter to "Travel Troubleshooter" from an Amtrak customer who lost her tickets (they were accidentally thrown away) and wasn't happy about Amtrak's policy for dealing with this situation. You know what they say about squeaky wheels ...

Here's the link.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/06/26/lost....kets/index.html

 

[MrFSS]

From the article:

I contacted Amtrak on your behalf. As a one-time exception to this policy, it offered you and your sister a travel voucher for the total value of the original tickets that were accidentally thrown away.

I wonder how many "one-time" exceptions have been made over the years. Guess if you loose them you can have CNN write them and they'll give you a voucher.

 

[RRrich]

One f the first things I learned on this forum is

Buy tickets early, pick them up late.

 

[the_traveler]

One of the first things I learned on this forum is
Buy tickets early, pick them up late.

As late as you can!

I set my reservations up (if I can) so I can pick up the next set of tickets when I'm at a mid point or connecting station - especially on the return trip. (Such as if I went KIN-PDX and PDX-BHM-KIN, I would set up the res so I could pick up the BHM-KIN tickets in BHM.) There is less chance of losing the later tickets.

 

[sunchaser]

One of the first things I learned on this forum is
Buy tickets early, pick them up late.

As late as you can!

I set my reservations up (if I can) so I can pick up the next set of tickets when I'm at a mid point or connecting station - especially on the return trip. (Such as if I went KIN-PDX and PDX-BHM-KIN, I would set up the res so I could pick up the BHM-KIN tickets in BHM.) There is less chance of losing the later tickets.

So how many rezzies do you set up then?

We only did one reservation, but it involves 2 trains each way.

Should we pick up the return tickets the day we come back then?

Will they let you pick them up in between?

I can see maybe doing it for the return, in case we have to change it.

(corrected spelling)

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

I would assume that the issue is cost - undoubtedly, implementing an e-ticket system would be expensive, even though it would probably save money in the long run. I'm sure that the customer mentioned in the article isn't the first person to lose his or her tickets & get stuck in this situation. It's yet another way in which Amtrak's lack of funding hinders its growth.

On the other hand, I think Amtrak's refund system as a whole is pretty fair when compared to the airlines. When flying, I always have to buy "nonrefundable" tickets, which are usually several times cheaper than refundable ones. In order to get the cheapest flights, I always have to book months in advance. At some point, I'm going to have to cancel a flight, and lose whatever I paid for my ticket.

With Amtrak, it's a LOT easier to get a refund. I had to cancel tickets just days before a trip a few years ago, and at least got a full credit for a refund. I doubt any airline would do that as their normal policy.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Another good idea for stimulus money to put out of work high tech people back to work

and improve the current 1920s system for ticketing!Surely long term the high tech way would

save $ and give bettewr service to passengers and help the employees cut down the paperwork

and even make AGR more efficient perhaps??!!!

 

[printman2000]

One of the first things I learned on this forum is
Buy tickets early, pick them up late.

As late as you can!

I set my reservations up (if I can) so I can pick up the next set of tickets when I'm at a mid point or connecting station - especially on the return trip. (Such as if I went KIN-PDX and PDX-BHM-KIN, I would set up the res so I could pick up the BHM-KIN tickets in BHM.) There is less chance of losing the later tickets.

So how many rezzies do you set up then?

We only did one reservation, but it involves 2 trains each way.

Should we pick up the return tickets the day we come back then?

Will they let you pick them up in between?

I can see maybe doing it for the return, in case we have to change it.

(corrected spelling)

If your reservation involves a connection, make sure to include them in one reservation. Otherwise if they are two, the connection is not guaranteed. I always book my return trip seperate and pick them up on the day we return.

 

[AlanB]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.

But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.

But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

and if the scanner does not work then what. does the conductor have to write the ticket info in manually.

 

[Upstate]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.

But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

I don't see why you need a live connection. If the conductor syncs their database at the beginning of the line and amtrak does not allow last minute etickets that do not get downloaded then most people are covered. They could even do a USB flash drive handoff at stations to update the database.

 

[AlanB]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.

But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

I don't see why you need a live connection. If the conductor syncs their database at the beginning of the line and amtrak does not allow last minute etickets that do not get downloaded then most people are covered. They could even do a USB flash drive handoff at stations to update the database.

But why would Amtrak want to limit sales further down the line? That's throwing away good money. And it won't help the fact that agents in stations further down the line are still selling tickets, tickets that will now need to be verified through the new system too.

And one still needs to deal with no shows and onboard upgrades. One advantage of the new system will be to allow Amtrak to sell out seats/sleepers of no shows on sold out trains further down the line.

 

[Upstate]

I saw this article too, and wondered - as the writer did - why Amtrak hasn't caught up with the airlines in terms of e-ticketing.

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.

But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

I don't see why you need a live connection. If the conductor syncs their database at the beginning of the line and amtrak does not allow last minute etickets that do not get downloaded then most people are covered. They could even do a USB flash drive handoff at stations to update the database.

But why would Amtrak want to limit sales further down the line? That's throwing away good money. And it won't help the fact that agents in stations further down the line are still selling tickets, tickets that will now need to be verified through the new system too.

And one still needs to deal with no shows and onboard upgrades. One advantage of the new system will be to allow Amtrak to sell out seats/sleepers of no shows on sold out trains further down the line.

Notice I said "last minute etickets", not tickets in general. No reason you can't do etickets and traditional tickets at the same time.

 

[jackal]

It's good ol' Christopher Elliott, again. He gets little respect on FlyerTalk...and for good reason. Most of his readers' complaints are stupid things that are completely avoidable with a little common sense, and yet he almost always bashes the travel provider and works the system to get the customer what they're demanding.

(Very occasionally, someone writes with a valid complaint, in which case he can be somewhat helpful.)

Actually, his treatment of Amtrak in this article is relatively fair (for him), so I can't fault him for that (and he is right that Amtrak should have gotten with the e-ticketing program a LONG time ago). I think, however, him getting her the voucher was in bad taste. Amtrak's policy is not only in line with but is more generous than most airlines' old lost paper ticket policies. He should have said to her, "Too bad." She'd have gotten her money back at the appropriate time and the system would have worked for her.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.
But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

I don't see why you need a live connection. If the conductor syncs their database at the beginning of the line and amtrak does not allow last minute etickets that do not get downloaded then most people are covered. They could even do a USB flash drive handoff at stations to update the database.

But why would Amtrak want to limit sales further down the line? That's throwing away good money. And it won't help the fact that agents in stations further down the line are still selling tickets, tickets that will now need to be verified through the new system too.

And one still needs to deal with no shows and onboard upgrades. One advantage of the new system will be to allow Amtrak to sell out seats/sleepers of no shows on sold out trains further down the line.

Notice I said "last minute etickets", not tickets in general. No reason you can't do etickets and traditional tickets at the same time.

I did notice that, but again as I said, why would Amtrak want to limit those e-ticket sales? That is lost money.

Additionally, when the switch occurs, everything that the conductor will do regarding ticketing will require that he scan a ticket. It won't matter if it's a regular standard stock ticket or an e-ticket. He'll have to scan it. Additionally, any on board upgrades will be processed through the new system. He won't hand write tickets anymore. Even credit card authorizations for the upgrades will go through this device.

So it needs to be online as much as possible, and when offline it will probably still need to be in touch with some onboard computer that will immediately verify info as soon as it gets back online so that again, agents and those using their own computers will know that potential passengers can buy a seat/room is they so desire.

 

[RTOlson]

I always liked the columnist. Sure, some of the questions are stupid, but at least he's trying to get information out there and get some sort of resolution for the traveler.

Given all the roadblocks that are often thrown in front of a traveler, it's nice to have someone with a little clout try to get a resolution.

Edit — Amtrak might be further along with e-ticketing if only there was some convenient way to help trains stay connected to the Internet while en route. If they solved the wifi problem, they could also more quickly solve the e-ticketing problem.

 

[the_traveler]

One of the first things I learned on this forum is
Buy tickets early, pick them up late.

As late as you can!

I set my reservations up (if I can) so I can pick up the next set of tickets when I'm at a mid point or connecting station - especially on the return trip. (Such as if I went KIN-PDX and PDX-BHM-KIN, I would set up the res so I could pick up the BHM-KIN tickets in BHM.) There is less chance of losing the later tickets.

So how many rezzies do you set up then?

We only did one reservation, but it involves 2 trains each way.

Should we pick up the return tickets the day we come back then?

Will they let you pick them up in between?

I can see maybe doing it for the return, in case we have to change it.

(corrected spelling)

If your reservation involves a connection, make sure to include them in one reservation. Otherwise if they are two, the connection is not guaranteed. I always book my return trip seperate and pick them up on the day we return.

Same here. I book my tickets/reservations whenever possible so I can pick them up as I travel. Here are to examples from my last trip and my next trip. (My trips are a combo of AGR awards and paid reservations. And you also know that they are LONG and strange routings!)

On my last trip, I picked up

• KIN-NYP-BUF and BUF-CHI in KIN
  
• CHI-LAX-PDX in CHI
  
• PDX-SAC-CHI-CVS-NOL in PDX
  
• NOL-SAS in NOL
  
• SAS-CHI-WAS-KIN in SAS
  

My next trip, I will pick up

• PDX-SEA-SPK in PDX
  
• SPK-PDX-MTZ in SPK
  
• MTZ-SAC in MTZ
  
• SAC-OKJ-SBA-LAX in SAC
  
• LAX-ONA and ONA-CHI-WAS-BHM in LAX
  
• BHM-NYP-KIN in BHM
  

You should always at the least make 2 one way reservations separately, and pick up your return trip tickets when you board. That way, there is less chance to lose them during your 2 week stay!

 

[Tony]

From the article:

I contacted Amtrak on your behalf. As a one-time exception to this policy, it offered you and your sister a travel voucher for the total value of the original tickets that were accidentally thrown away.

I wonder how many "one-time" exceptions have been made over the years. Guess if you loose them you can have CNN write them and they'll give you a voucher.

It's good ol' Christopher Elliott, again. He gets little respect on FlyerTalk...and for good reason. Most of his readers' complaints are stupid things that are completely avoidable with a little common sense, and yet he almost always bashes the travel provider and works the system to get the customer what they're demanding.
(Very occasionally, someone writes with a valid complaint, in which case he can be somewhat helpful.)

Actually, his treatment of Amtrak in this article is relatively fair (for him), so I can't fault him for that (and he is right that Amtrak should have gotten with the e-ticketing program a LONG time ago). I think, however, him getting her the voucher was in bad taste. Amtrak's policy is not only in line with but is more generous than most airlines' old lost paper ticket policies. He should have said to her, "Too bad." She'd have gotten her money back at the appropriate time and the system would have worked for her.

I read these articles on CNN for a long time, and yea, for the most part, this guy "bullies" the company into making a one time refund exception for the one traveler. The company's decision doesn't at all seem relative to the traveler having a valid or realistic complaint, but only an attempt to appease CNN.

I mean, I have never read that he was success in getting a company to change its refund policies so that everyone could benefit.

I wonder if I wrote to this guy complaining that my wife through away $10,000, would he be able to get the US Treasury to "refund" my $10,000 in cash?

 

[Tony]

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.
But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

There are also very few unmanned airports.

Collecting a ticket before the train passenger is allowed out onto the platform would not work very well either.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Amtrak is working on an e-ticketing system, most likely to be rolled out late next year or 2011.
But people need to remember that e-ticketing is much simpler for an airline by comparison to Amtrak. An airline's gate remains at the airport, and therefore the e-ticketing equipment that checks you in/scans your ticket remains connected to local power and a steady internet/itranet connection. Amtrak doesn't have that luxury.

The train could be in the middle of no where, or worse in the middle of a tunnel, when the conductor comes by to scan your ticket, either of which can render his portable scanner useless.

There are also very few unmanned airports.

Collecting a ticket before the train passenger is allowed out onto the platform would not work very well either.

uh yes it would. they did it on the TE in chicago. the conductor collected the ticket in that waiting area just past the 1 gate but before the tracks.

 

[the_traveler]

Collecting a ticket before the train passenger is allowed out onto the platform would not work very well either.

uh yes it would. they did it on the TE in chicago. the conductor collected the ticket in that waiting area just past the 1 gate but before the tracks.

Yea, in a manned station like CHI, NYP or WAS! But would it work at a manned station like KIN, BUF or KFS? And I doubt it would work at an unstaffed station such as NDL or MYS!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

depends how popular the unstaffed station is.

 

[PaulM]

I don't see why you need a live connection. If the conductor syncs their database at the beginning of the line and amtrak does not allow last minute etickets that do not get downloaded then most people are covered. They could even do a USB flash drive handoff at stations to update the database.

But why would Amtrak want to limit sales further down the line? That's throwing away good money. And it won't help the fact that agents in stations further down the line are still selling tickets, tickets that will now need to be verified through the new system too.

And one still needs to deal with no shows and onboard upgrades. One advantage of the new system will be to allow Amtrak to sell out seats/sleepers of no shows on sold out trains further down the line.

Sounds like you are saying Amtrak will have solved the real time connection issue in the very near future and doesn't need Upstate's manual download at the departing station and stations along the way. In this connection I'm curious if engineers have continuous radio connection with the outside world. Also wondering if the microwave towers that seem to have replaced the telegraph wires along the tracks are used to communicate with trains.

Also, wouldn't no-shows and on-board upgrades not necessarily involve communications since they are only known on-board anyway.

Also, I don't think Upstate is suggesting Amtrak not sell tickets further down the line, only not use e-tickets if the data could not be manually downloaded before the passenger boards.

The conductor's device would have to be programmed to allow the him to enter paper tickets, upgrades, and no shows, plus who knows what other type of information.

 

[AlanB]

Also, wouldn't no-shows and on-board upgrades not necessarily involve communications since they are only known on-board anyway.
Also, I don't think Upstate is suggesting Amtrak not sell tickets further down the line, only not use e-tickets if the data could not be manually downloaded before the passenger boards.

The conductor's device would have to be programmed to allow the him to enter paper tickets, upgrades, and no shows, plus who knows what other type of information.

Right now under the current system no shows are only known on board, but upgrades are known both onboard and to anyone with access to ARROW. Or perhaps more correctly, anyone with access to ARROW will not be able to sell a sleeper that was sold via an onboard upgrade. Additionally, no shows are only known if they happen in the sleepers, not coach.

However the point of the system, and in fact it was the point of the system that Amtrak tried to develop for Acela, is to be able to sell the seats/sleepers of no shows further down the line. If the conductor is unable to upload that info, then a no show's seat cannot be resold and potential revenue could be lost.

As for selling regular tickets vs e-tickets, unless Amtrak is going to go to additional lengths beyond what other similar systems use, a conductor will scan all tickets with his scanner. That means both regular current style tickets and e-tickets. If the conductors device is unable to download info as the train moves along, then the device will reject a regular "typical" ticket when he scans that barcode since it won't be considered valid without a download to update his hand held device.

So the bottom line is that it won't matter if you have a regular ticket or an e-ticket, if the conductor's device is off line, then it will reject either type of ticket as being invalid.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Also, wouldn't no-shows and on-board upgrades not necessarily involve communications since they are only known on-board anyway.
Also, I don't think Upstate is suggesting Amtrak not sell tickets further down the line, only not use e-tickets if the data could not be manually downloaded before the passenger boards.

The conductor's device would have to be programmed to allow the him to enter paper tickets, upgrades, and no shows, plus who knows what other type of information.

Right now under the current system no shows are only known on board, but upgrades are known both onboard and to anyone with access to ARROW. Or perhaps more correctly, anyone with access to ARROW will not be able to sell a sleeper that was sold via an onboard upgrade. Additionally, no shows are only known if they happen in the sleepers, not coach.

However the point of the system, and in fact it was the point of the system that Amtrak tried to develop for Acela, is to be able to sell the seats/sleepers of no shows further down the line. If the conductor is unable to upload that info, then a no show's seat cannot be resold and potential revenue could be lost.

As for selling regular tickets vs e-tickets, unless Amtrak is going to go to additional lengths beyond what other similar systems use, a conductor will scan all tickets with his scanner. That means both regular current style tickets and e-tickets. If the conductors device is unable to download info as the train moves along, then the device will reject a regular "typical" ticket when he scans that barcode since it won't be considered valid without a download to update his hand held device.

So the bottom line is that it won't matter if you have a regular ticket or an e-ticket, if the conductor's device is off line, then it will reject either type of ticket as being invalid.

so if the scanner is down does that mean your not going to able to board the train or will the conductor be forced to enter the ticket info manually.