Quantcast

GE To Reenter Passenger Market

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

WhoozOn1st

Conductor
Honored Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
4,281
Location
Southern California
From "Trains For America:"

GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

“GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives,” he said. “We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality.”

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

birdy

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
205
From "Trains For America:"
GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

“GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives,” he said. “We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality.”

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
Good. I'm not for protectionism, but I'm glad to see an American company get in the game. Having GE turn from financial wheeling and dealing to engineering to make a buck is a good sign too.
 

Sam31452

Service Attendant
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
245
Good. I'm not for protectionism, but I'm glad to see an American company get in the game. Having GE turn from financial wheeling and dealing to engineering to make a buck is a good sign too.
Let me think for a second. If you had the choice to buy from a company that has 30 years of experience in the business (high-speed trains) and whose products are widely known or to buy from a company that just entered the business, which one would you choose?
 

amtrakwolverine

Conductor
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4,002
Location
Warren MI
the last electric engine GE made was the E60 and that was a piece of junk. GE hasn't built a PAX engine sense the p-42 there all freight engines.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VentureForth

Conductor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
5,864
Location
West Melbourne, FL
I'd like to see Kawasaki make a bid for a total Acela set replacement. More power (ha ha) to GE, though. I am confident they could build something to pull the Acela sets, but I wouldn't go past that right now.

They say they want to use the "Evolution" series for High Speed Rail. I thought they meant Acela sort of High Speed, but I think they are really only looking to 90 - 110 MPH "High Speed".
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VentureForth

Conductor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
5,864
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Usually in the way they look . . .

When you get above 90 MPH, it should have some sort of passive or active tilting mechanism. There are physics that a "High Speed" passenger loco is subject to that a typical 59 MPH freight loco doesn't need to contend with.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,498
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Usually in the way they look . . .
When you get above 90 MPH, it should have some sort of passive or active tilting mechanism. There are physics that a "High Speed" passenger loco is subject to that a typical 59 MPH freight loco doesn't need to contend with.
Typically power heads do not have tilt mechanism. The tilt is mostly for passenger comfort and does not really change the mechanical forces at the wheel rail interface.
 

VentureForth

Conductor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
5,864
Location
West Melbourne, FL
I stand corrected. However, I think that lighter weight and lower axle loading do factor in, as well as vertical mass distribution. An HHP-8 and and AEM-7 can take a tighter curve faster than a P42 without tipping.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,498
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I stand corrected. However, I think that lighter weight and lower axle loading do factor in, as well as vertical mass distribution. An HHP-8 and and AEM-7 can take a tighter curve faster than a P42 without tipping.
Yes. Absolutely. Although, tilting is not particularly going to prevent tipping. The height above rail of the center of gravity of the unit would be the critical determining factor for that. The more immediate problem is how much damage is done to the track more than anything else. In an unintended event an AEM-7 with a bunch of Amfleets managed to go through the Elizabeth S-Curve at over 100mph once without derailing or tipping, but it did damage the track enough that they had to basically rebuild the track. The lack of derailment for partially credited to the stability of track on concrete ties. Also it was not a pleasant experience for the folks on the train. The conductor described the experience starting with something like "After I had picked myself off the floor and managed to hit the emergency brakes .... ", so you can imagine. The net result is that now all trains get a approach medium as it approaches the S-curve.
 

Green Maned Lion

Conductor
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
8,209
Location
NJ
GE hasn't built a PAX engine sense the p-42 there all freight engines.
Besides HEP and gearing, passenger locos are not really different than freight, are they?
The F59PHI and F40 series are basically modified GP technology. They aren't much different at all. Certainly, the Dash 8-32BWH (Also known as the P32BWH) is not substantially different then any other GE 4-axle Dash 8.

HOWEVER, the P32ACDM/P40/P42 is substantially different. It uses unitary construction (rather than cowl-on-frame), has its engine sitting low, between its trucks, and has a much lower center of gravity, one of many reasons its rated for higher speeds in certain situations. Its engine/systems control technology is closely related to the Dash 8 (P40) and Dash 9 (P32/P42) but it is otherwise unique. NJ Transits PL42 is also substantially unique, and the new NJT dual modes will be something completely out of this world- bearing more in common with Germany's passenger electric locomotives than it will with any diesel locomotive we have over here.
 

Murjax

Train Attendant
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
58
Location
St. Augustine, FL
Sometime last summer I heard that Amtrak was considering replacing their AEM-7 DC units with an order of ALP-46s, but if GE is getting into the business, I'm guessing Amtrak would reconsider using GE. Besides, production and delivery would probably be cheaper being American based. Do you think GE would create something new or take EMD's approach and modify a proven design?
 

birdy

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
205
GE makes combined cycle natural gas electric generators (basically jet engines configured to generate electricity) that were so efficient that they destablized the electric utility industry. They have an availability factor greater than coal, they are dropped off on railroad flatcars and require very little labor to run. they are up to almost 60% thermal efficiency on those things.

So yeah, I think they have some engineering chops.
 

PetalumaLoco

Conductor
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
1,980
Location
Petaluma Ca
I see they have flex fuel capability too;

"...can accommodate a wide range of fuels, including natural gas, light and heavy distillate oil, naphtha, crude oil, residual oil steel mill gases and syngases. Their state-of-the-art fuel handling capabilities allow them to switch from one fuel to another while running under load." (my emphasis)
 

had8ley

Conductor
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
From "Trains For America:"
GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

“GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives,” he said. “We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality.”

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
GE is well known for producing JUNQUE...they had to make some improvements, mostly to meet emission standards, but in my book comparing EMD to GE is like comparing a Hummer to a Nash Rambler. Been on way too many GE's that left us out in the woods for the mosquitoes to eat alive. Then, IF we could walk out the alligators were all smiles...
 

printman2000

Conductor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
3,753
Location
Amarillo, Texas
From "Trains For America:"
GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

"GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives," he said. "We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality."

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
GE is well known for producing JUNQUE...they had to make some improvements, mostly to meet emission standards, but in my book comparing EMD to GE is like comparing a Hummer to a Nash Rambler. Been on way too many GE's that left us out in the woods for the mosquitoes to eat alive. Then, IF we could walk out the alligators were all smiles...
Can you give us more information? I am just curious what specifically you find bad about the GE's. Just reliability? Or other stuff as well?
 

battalion51

Conductor
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
7,193
Location
USA
Part of me has to wonder about how well GE is doing these days product wise versus EMD. In case you haven't noticed the Evolution Series has been beating the pants of the ACes and M-2s. Even traditionally EMD railroads like UP have been buying up GE's over EMD. I don't know that EMD in the post GM era is delivering the same kind of product that it used to back in the day.
 

had8ley

Conductor
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
From "Trains For America:"
GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

"GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives," he said. "We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality."

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
GE is well known for producing JUNQUE...they had to make some improvements, mostly to meet emission standards, but in my book comparing EMD to GE is like comparing a Hummer to a Nash Rambler. Been on way too many GE's that left us out in the woods for the mosquitoes to eat alive. Then, IF we could walk out the alligators were all smiles...
Can you give us more information? I am just curious what specifically you find bad about the GE's. Just reliability? Or other stuff as well?
I could write a volume of books but only some of the many major faults were; the steps were built for Spiderman. I didn't mind the EMD E-8's or E-9's but GE did have the option of not going straight up on their "U boat" and some Dash 8 models. Walkways were slim and narrow. We had hefty hog heads who had heck getting on and off~ creates a tense situation if you have to join the "bird gang" (bail off.) Reliability~ I'd trust John Dilinger with a Tommy gun more than I would trust a GE to make it from the home terminal to the other end of the railroad without at least several problems. Loading up~ you could have EMD's red lined (pulling over 1200 amps) and GE's would completely drop the load and then buck back at full load; great way to get a draw bar, knuckle or wake the conductor up in the cave days when we had cabooses. Smoke~ the Class 1's would not send older GE's to California account they would be turned back at the CA border account excessive emissions. I could go on and on but I'll settle for an EMD product any day. I doubt you'll find many ole farts like myself that had any admiration for GE products.
 

printman2000

Conductor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
3,753
Location
Amarillo, Texas
From "Trains For America:"
GE Transportation's Simonelli see high speed rail developments

"GE has the know-how and the manufacturing base to develop the next generation of high-speed passenger locomotives," he said. "We are ready to partner with the federal government and Amtrak to make high-speed rail a reality."

The interest in returning to the passenger locomotive business was expressed as GE officially unveiled a new type of locomotive, though it is not mentioned in this video.

EDIT: Note at the Trains For America site a link to the side about groundbreaking for a new Auto Train terminal at Sanford, FL. According to the Trains News Wire, Amtrak says it will look for other city pairs that might benefit from the Auto Train concept in future years.
GE is well known for producing JUNQUE...they had to make some improvements, mostly to meet emission standards, but in my book comparing EMD to GE is like comparing a Hummer to a Nash Rambler. Been on way too many GE's that left us out in the woods for the mosquitoes to eat alive. Then, IF we could walk out the alligators were all smiles...
Can you give us more information? I am just curious what specifically you find bad about the GE's. Just reliability? Or other stuff as well?
I could write a volume of books but only some of the many major faults were; the steps were built for Spiderman. I didn't mind the EMD E-8's or E-9's but GE did have the option of not going straight up on their "U boat" and some Dash 8 models. Walkways were slim and narrow. We had hefty hog heads who had heck getting on and off~ creates a tense situation if you have to join the "bird gang" (bail off.) Reliability~ I'd trust John Dilinger with a Tommy gun more than I would trust a GE to make it from the home terminal to the other end of the railroad without at least several problems. Loading up~ you could have EMD's red lined (pulling over 1200 amps) and GE's would completely drop the load and then buck back at full load; great way to get a draw bar, knuckle or wake the conductor up in the cave days when we had cabooses. Smoke~ the Class 1's would not send older GE's to California account they would be turned back at the CA border account excessive emissions. I could go on and on but I'll settle for an EMD product any day. I doubt you'll find many ole farts like myself that had any admiration for GE products.
Thanks for the reply. Very interesting.
 

Shotgun7

Service Attendant
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
234
Location
Astoria, OR
Part of me has to wonder about how well GE is doing these days product wise versus EMD. In case you haven't noticed the Evolution Series has been beating the pants of the ACes and M-2s. Even traditionally EMD railroads like UP have been buying up GE's over EMD. I don't know that EMD in the post GM era is delivering the same kind of product that it used to back in the day.
EMD's engines have gotten progressively worse in nearly every aspect since the shift to computer control. The M-2s and ACes are deeply hated by every trainman I've talked to or heard from about them. The "Whisper Cab" is a joke... they're no quieter than an SD40. You can't effectively fit a single piece of paper on the conductor's desk. Any GE, even the crappy old ones, will hold a load better. And what reigns supreme in their flaws is every aspect of the computer system. FEC's M-2s were nearly returned to the factory due to all the software malfunctions (which even the smallest can render the entire locomotive useless). The only good aspect of the new EMDs I've heard from anybody is the new control stand, which is essentially a more modern version of the old EMD control stands (replacing desktop controls, making backup moves far easier). Of course, the GEVOs have this too.

And not only does GE currently make a MUCH better product (with normal, safe to use stairs and wider catwalks), but they just reintroduced the A1A style truck for cross country stack trains (the ES44C4), which is very mechanically similar to their new AC models. So a better variety of higher quality, interchangeable products vs. AC and DC highly technologically advanced models that won't even start. This is why down here, CSX's Hialeah yard keeps nothing but GPs and GEVOs.... Oh, and one SD70MAC. (Out of about 10 6-axle units, this is the ONLY EMD out of the bunch, excluding the times when a few SD40s stroll down).

The balance of power has shifted. EMD made arguably the best locomotives in the world up through the 70s, while GE's old U boats were pitiful. Nowadays, EMD makes expensive marvels of technology that won't move.
 
Top