Great dome car 10031 usage

[Davids]

Does anyone know if amtrak only operate the great dome car on the Adirondack and the Cardinal during the fall? Why not use it all year round? Where does amtrak keep the car during non fall season if it is not used all year round?

Thanks

 

[Willie1946]

I believe the car is leased from Iowa Pacific. Perhaps it's not a full year lease.

 

[Amfleeter]

I believe the car is leased from Iowa Pacific. Perhaps it's not a full year lease.

Amtrak owns the Great Dome through-and-through - it's Heritage fleet, like the PPCs, Diners, and Bags. It's former Great Northern, I believe, and it's never been retired. It's stored at Rensselaer shops when not in use and when under repairs. It rotates between the Surfliner, Cardinal, and Adirondack, and wherever else Amtrak wants it.

 

[JayMadison]

When do they have an observation car on the Cardinal?

 

[the_traveler]

Only on certain days. I believe last year, it was only scheduled for 2 trips each way. (At least 1 did not happen due to a mishap.)

 

[Ryan]

Late fall, generally.

Early fall it runs on the Adirondack.

It's a great trip, I did it in 2011. Pictures here:

http://photos.stavely.org/Trains/Cardinal-Dome-Trip/

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Since this is a passenger rail forum, I'm going to be a stickler. An observation car can have a dome, but a dome is not necessarily an observation car. An observation car is at the end of a passenger train and generally have a rounded end like the Park Car on the Canadian:

But there are also observation cars like the Cedar Rapids:

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, Amtrak doesn't have one of those.

 

[neroden]

There are also square-ended observation cars, which are more practical; Amtrak doesn't have any of those in revenue use, sadly. Technically the recently modified Viewliner "theater car" qualifies. And there are open-platform observation cars.

I take it Davy Crockett is restricting the term "observation car" to a car designed to run at the end of the consist so that you can watch the receding track out the back end. This is the most common usage, though I'm sure I've seen records of old railroads using the term "observation car" for middle-of-train cars with extensive windows.

 

[afigg]

When do they have an observation car on the Cardinal?

It is the #10031 great dome car, not an observation car as noted above. Generally the dome car is put on the Adirondack starting in late September and then for a few CHI-WAS round trips in late October, beginning of November to catch the peak of the fall color seasons in upper NY state and later in WV and WV. The dome car can not run on the NEC, has too high a clearance for the wires and tunnels. So it is added to or removed from the Adirondack at Albany for trips between Albany and Montreal. Then it is moved to Chicago by the LSL and may run on the Cardinal between CHI and WAS. Checking the 2013 press releases, the dome car ran on the Adirondack from mid-September to October 29 and on the Illinois Zephyr from November 5 to 22 in 2013.

I was lucky to take the dome car on the Cardinal 2 years ago in late October coming back from Charlottesville on a ALX to CVS round trip. neat trip, although short.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Those 17Days that the Dome ran through the Corn Fields of Illinois probably drew thousands of rail fans to ride no doubt!

 

[Davids]

If it is not fall, which train that use dome car regularly?

 

[the_traveler]

None!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

When do they have an observation car on the Cardinal?

Last year 10031 did not run on the Cardinal, though it has in years past, and we could well see it again this fall.

A great car to ride in. I took it ALX-CHI on The Card two years ago. A couple of the conductors on that run played demigods and did not let us into the Dome until we were in Orange, which I attributed to easing ticket collection out of WAS and excused, and a particularly selfish conductor out of Indianapolis reserved one of the prime front seats for himself :excl: :angry2: NICE, huh? Besides that, it was a great run and I'm not ashamed to admit that I turned into a Lounge Lizard that night and spent the night in 10031 instead of my seat! <_<

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Only on certain days. I believe last year, it was only scheduled for 2 trips each way. (At least 1 did not happen due to a mishap.)

Tempus fugit!

That was two years ago.

 

[Sactobob]

It has been used on the West Coast at times, on the Reno Fun Train or on the Snow Train from Seattle to Leavenworth in December. Also, for additional capacity on the Pacific Surfliner at peak times.

 

[FormerOBS]

There may be a minor difference in overall height, but for the most part a dome car can run anywhere that a Superliner can run. I was on the Heritage/Amfleet Capitol Limited when we detoured via the Port Road, Harrisburg, and Altoona many years ago, and the ex-NP dome car was kept on the train, although the crew was told to keep passengers out of the dome while we were under the catenary.

Fond memories of working that ex-GN Great Dome before we got Superliners on Auto Train. It was one of six identical cars built by Budd for the old GN Empire Builder in 1955. One of the smoothest-riding cars I ever worked.

The complete roster was:

Glacier View

Ocean View

Mountain View

Lake View

Prairie View

River View

I think one or more of the other cars is preserved, but I don't know the location(s) or ownership.

A lot of people use the term "Observation Car" to describe Sightseer Lounges and various dome cars, but Davy Crockett is right: The traditional general rule said that an observation car went on the rear. Exceptions were the Reading's "Crusader" train, which had an obs. on each end so that the train didn't need to be turned at the end of its run; and the B&O's Capitol Limited, which carried cars of the Washington - Detroit Ambassador for a portion of its run. The Ambassador's square-end sleeper/lounge/observation car was carried in the middle of the Capitol. There could have been other exceptions to the general rule.

Tom

 

[PerRock]

Would you guys consider Beech Grove to be Amtrak's last Observation car?

peter

 

[MrFSS]

There were many great observation cars in the day.

I was fortunate to have seen a number of these type cars as I wandered around Chicago, Cincinnati, and Louisville in the 50's.

Here are a few to show the different types, not all inclusive, though.



B& O in Cincinnati.



GM&O Ann Rutledge



California Zephyr



PRR Broadway Limited



Empire Builder



And, of course the MStP&P Hiawatha car still being used today.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Nice shots Tom, did you get to ride in any of these gems?

 

[MrFSS]

Nice shots Tom, did you get to ride in any of these gems?

Nope - sorry to say.

 

[domefoamer]

A great car to ride in. I took it ALX-CHI on The Card two years ago. A couple of the conductors on that run played demigods and did not let us into the Dome until we were in Orange, which I attributed to easing ticket collection out of WAS and excused, and a particularly selfish conductor out of Indianapolis reserved one of the prime front seats for himself :excl: :angry2: NICE, huh? Besides that, it was a great run and I'm not ashamed to admit that I turned into a Lounge Lizard that night and spent the night in 10031 instead of my seat! <_<

I had a similar experience riding the Capitol Limited in January 1993. A Budd half-dome was included then, and I took full advantage of it. I saw almost every mile of the route over the mountains, and much of the rest of the spooky, postindustrial landscape besides the lakes. That view of the silver streamliner's cars snaking out ahead in the moonlight, beside a silvery river, was unforgettable. It's hard to keep those toothpicks jammed between your eyelids that long, but the nighttime view from a dome is worth it.

 

[fairviewroad]

Of course, none of this answers the question of why this equipment isn't used year-round. My theories:

1. It's old. It must take some extra TLC to keep it in running condition. Amtrak might not want to press its luck by running it year-round.

Better to bring it out as a marketing tool for a few weeks here and there.

2. It's unique. As such, it would be impossible to market as a regular amenity along a route. Even the PPC's can nominally be marketed

as a regular feature on the Coast Starlight, despite being frequently out of service. But there are five(?) PPC's and just one "Great Dome."

So if you ran it on the Cardinal year-round (for instance), it would still be hit-or-miss as to whether your particular run of the Cardinal would

sport the Great Dome.

3. Of course, you could solve that problem by making it a permanent feature on a "captive" set such as the Carl Sandburg. But that would

have less marketing value than on a scenic route such as the Cardinal or Adirondack. And if you pulled it off the Sandburg for a few months

in the fall, you'd run into the same marketing conundrum as in #2. ("Hey, I paid for a ticket Plano to Kewanee and was PROMISED a ride in

the Great Dome, and now you're telling me some east coast schmoes get to enjoy it instead???")

The bottom line is that it definitely could be used more often (why not in the spring, for instance?). But its status as a one-off car makes it

hard to feature it in regular service. [Possible solution: Buy MORE domes! Yeah, I know...]

 

[zephyr17]

Lost solution...keep the many domes they had and aggressively retired and sold or scrapped. Ocean View is the sole survivor of a large fleet.

 

[neroden]

The reference center for domes:

http://trainweb.org/web_lurker/WebLurkersDOMEmain/

I have never been entirely sure why Amtrak got rid of so many of its domes. I suppose the key point was that the western trains were getting Superliners (so the domes were not compatible), while all the eastern trains were going to NY Penn or Grand Central (so the domes wouldn't clear the tunnels).

Still, it seems like it would have made sense to retain some matching equipment. I can understand getting rid of the "oddballs" -- there were an awful lot of one-off domes made to unique specifications; nobody would really want to hang on to a mere two Pullman-Standard domes built for the B&O. Also, a number of the domes were "sleeper domes", which are not practical with modern practices; most of them wouldn't have survived the retention toilet requirement.

But Amtrak had some large sets of matching equipment from the CB&Q, NP, GN, and SP&S, and I'm still a bit surprised at the way they were disposed of. It seems like the disposition was done piecemeal by several CEOs with little thought towards hanging onto a consistent fleet. The first of the dome-lounges matching 10031 was traded away in 1981, the last around 2001. The matching set of HEP coach-lounges seem to have been sold in the 1990s.

Unfortunately for efficiency of maintenance, although many of the domes have been bought by various tourist operations or as private cars, very few groups managed to nab a matching set. VIA Rail Canada of course still has a large matching set from CP, though its numbers are dwindling too (and some of it is VIA's fault). The second-largest matching set are held by Iowa Pacific and originated with the ATSF.

The tendency in recent years has been to go with Superliner-like designs whenever possible; witness the rather impressive "Ultradome" cars built for the Alaska Railroad by Colorado Railcar.