beautifulplanet
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2014
- Messages
- 337
Starting a new thread, in case considered irrelevant or in wrong place, please move or delete.
Over in the Amtrak Rail Discussions forum, about a week ago, I posted some links to press reports about a federal grant that is being persued for a new study for new passenger rail service between New Orleans and Orlando:
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/50121-sunset-limited-to-orlando/page-2&do=findComment&comment=525021
And I was a little shocked about the following further discussion in that thread. It appears like nobody who commented there actually made the effort to look up what the actual grant application says. Just me personally, I would refrain from making really harsh comments, unless I actually know what I'm talking about, but generally I try to refrain from making harsh comments in the first place.
In order to possibly start an actual conversation based on facts, here is the link to the previous Amtrak study for passenger rail in the New Orleans to Orlando corridor, published July 16, 2009:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/904/671/GulfCoastServicePlanReport.pdf
Here is the link to the grant application for the new passenger rail study:
http://static.squarespace.com/static/5302778ee4b07a6f640874ef/t/53610df9e4b0fcd15764d9c2/1398869497913/TIGER_SRC_application.pdf
Here is a paragraph from page 4 of the grant application:
So many might think that it is appropriate for a new study to be conducted, as it will do something completely different than the previous Amtrak study.
The Amtrak study linked above suggested as "preferred options" to either 1) restart the Sunset Limited three times a week, 2) extend the daily City of New Orleans service to Orlando, or 3) Implement daily stand-alone overnight service between New Orleans and Orlando.
Still it seems like in the view of the cities affected, these options are not very attractive, as f.e. Pensacola might think it will still not get a very great service if the trains only come through at approximately 3am in the morning.
And it seems like the authors of the grant request noticed that daytime service did not make it into Amtrak's three "preferred options", as Amtrak calculated with a trip time of 18.5h, for a distance that by car is estimated to take about 9.6h to travel. So the rail service would not be very competetive, still Amtrak used the trip times of its previous service. The authors of the grant request suggest that on-time performance improved nationwide since the Sunset Limited last traveled, and so also the formet Sunset LImited route might see shorter trip times, also as CSX might have already implemented some improvements on its trackage, but in addition, as quoted above, the new study also will examine "infrastructure enhancements that could improve on time performance", which the Amtrak study did not. It seems like the authors of the grant request are seeking daily daytime service, possibly even with multiple departures.
Also the Amtrak study did not consider changing station locations, but just rebuilding or rehabilitating the existing stations. Possibly it could make sense to move stations closer to current activity centers. Especially the authors of the grant request seem to notice that Amtrak's study included spending 3 million dollars on building a completely new "non-Auto-train" station in Sanford, which they conclude might possibly not be needed, and already shave a big chunk of funding off of the necessary investment to restart any rail service.
Wrapping it up, it seems that this study would offer a completely different perspective than Amtrak's study. Amtrak looked at its national rail system, that there are connections to other Amtrak trains with any new service introduced etc. And Amtrak would also have been fine with just re-introducing what was there, the Sunset Limited.
The states and cities along the route have a fundamentally different perspective. For them, it probably doesn't matter so much if a traveler has a good connection to Los Angeles in New Orleans. But they look at their cities, and their corridor, and say: how can we use this rail corridor for our own cities, f.e. for economic delevopment, as the Gulf Coast has some of the world's finest white sand beaches, but lots of the respective cities are currently accessable primarily only by car.
It might seem important that there is a lot of local buy-in, a lot of cities, businesses and organizations like medical or educational campuses along the route support it. And it seems like it could make sense, which would be part of the outreach phase, to ask them: how should new passenger rail service be like, to serve your residents, your costumers, your tourists, your students and your employees the best.
Last but not least, the new study would also look at possible ways of funding. As the previous Amtrak study so far did not end up to a lot of funding for Gulf Coast passenger rail coming into place, it would seem like a lot of people would welcome this new study that would look at ways to possibly make a better, stronger passenger rail service along the Gulf Coast a reality.
Over in the Amtrak Rail Discussions forum, about a week ago, I posted some links to press reports about a federal grant that is being persued for a new study for new passenger rail service between New Orleans and Orlando:
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/50121-sunset-limited-to-orlando/page-2&do=findComment&comment=525021
And I was a little shocked about the following further discussion in that thread. It appears like nobody who commented there actually made the effort to look up what the actual grant application says. Just me personally, I would refrain from making really harsh comments, unless I actually know what I'm talking about, but generally I try to refrain from making harsh comments in the first place.
In order to possibly start an actual conversation based on facts, here is the link to the previous Amtrak study for passenger rail in the New Orleans to Orlando corridor, published July 16, 2009:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/904/671/GulfCoastServicePlanReport.pdf
Here is the link to the grant application for the new passenger rail study:
http://static.squarespace.com/static/5302778ee4b07a6f640874ef/t/53610df9e4b0fcd15764d9c2/1398869497913/TIGER_SRC_application.pdf
Here is a paragraph from page 4 of the grant application:
To be clear, the project sponsors are not interested in studying how to restart the Sunset Limited service, which was anemic and unreliable. Rather than recreating the poor service that once existed, this study would analyze how to bring daily service to the region, including issues from the appropriate corridor length to number of trains per day to the number of stops and possible express service as well as conditions of the rail and infrastructure enhancements that could improve on time performance, including dangerous rail crossings that need improvements. In the end, there should be strong, reliable passenger rail service to the region.
So many might think that it is appropriate for a new study to be conducted, as it will do something completely different than the previous Amtrak study.
The Amtrak study linked above suggested as "preferred options" to either 1) restart the Sunset Limited three times a week, 2) extend the daily City of New Orleans service to Orlando, or 3) Implement daily stand-alone overnight service between New Orleans and Orlando.
Still it seems like in the view of the cities affected, these options are not very attractive, as f.e. Pensacola might think it will still not get a very great service if the trains only come through at approximately 3am in the morning.
And it seems like the authors of the grant request noticed that daytime service did not make it into Amtrak's three "preferred options", as Amtrak calculated with a trip time of 18.5h, for a distance that by car is estimated to take about 9.6h to travel. So the rail service would not be very competetive, still Amtrak used the trip times of its previous service. The authors of the grant request suggest that on-time performance improved nationwide since the Sunset Limited last traveled, and so also the formet Sunset LImited route might see shorter trip times, also as CSX might have already implemented some improvements on its trackage, but in addition, as quoted above, the new study also will examine "infrastructure enhancements that could improve on time performance", which the Amtrak study did not. It seems like the authors of the grant request are seeking daily daytime service, possibly even with multiple departures.
Also the Amtrak study did not consider changing station locations, but just rebuilding or rehabilitating the existing stations. Possibly it could make sense to move stations closer to current activity centers. Especially the authors of the grant request seem to notice that Amtrak's study included spending 3 million dollars on building a completely new "non-Auto-train" station in Sanford, which they conclude might possibly not be needed, and already shave a big chunk of funding off of the necessary investment to restart any rail service.
Wrapping it up, it seems that this study would offer a completely different perspective than Amtrak's study. Amtrak looked at its national rail system, that there are connections to other Amtrak trains with any new service introduced etc. And Amtrak would also have been fine with just re-introducing what was there, the Sunset Limited.
The states and cities along the route have a fundamentally different perspective. For them, it probably doesn't matter so much if a traveler has a good connection to Los Angeles in New Orleans. But they look at their cities, and their corridor, and say: how can we use this rail corridor for our own cities, f.e. for economic delevopment, as the Gulf Coast has some of the world's finest white sand beaches, but lots of the respective cities are currently accessable primarily only by car.
It might seem important that there is a lot of local buy-in, a lot of cities, businesses and organizations like medical or educational campuses along the route support it. And it seems like it could make sense, which would be part of the outreach phase, to ask them: how should new passenger rail service be like, to serve your residents, your costumers, your tourists, your students and your employees the best.
Last but not least, the new study would also look at possible ways of funding. As the previous Amtrak study so far did not end up to a lot of funding for Gulf Coast passenger rail coming into place, it would seem like a lot of people would welcome this new study that would look at ways to possibly make a better, stronger passenger rail service along the Gulf Coast a reality.