How Amtrak could become Solvent...

[ALC Rail Writer]

There has been discussionn for years of putting a "pet car" on the Auto Train, to be sponsored by a pet food company - Purina, etc. The car would be a separate piece of equipment, only for pets and staffed by a representative of the pet food company. It would be a rolling kennel and the pet food company would sell pet food and other pet related items in the car. The Auto Train passengers would be able to "visit" their animals enroute and if necessary, they would walk them at the Florence middle of the night stop. Plans have been drawn, however the concept has gone no further. In my opinion, this is the only sensible route for pets and there is a strong demand on the part of the snow-birds to take their pets on the Auto Train. I fully agree with all the negative comments above regarding pets on any other route. It just doesn't work and the money is not there either.

Now that sounds like a worthwhile proposal. I could get behind something like that.

If Purina absorbs the operating loss...

 

[ExtonFlyer]

The author of the post discredited themselves the first second that he used the phrase "how Amtrak can become solvent." That implies a complete lack of knowledge of Amtrak and US transportation policy in general. It's one thing to argue that pets should be carried aboard trains (which I don't necessarily agree with unless I saw a well-researched plan on how it would work), but to suggest that Amtrak can eliminate their operating subsidy by carrying pets is ludicrous.

I completely agree that the author discredited herself with the title of the article (and I posted it to this board without edit for shock value). Looking past that though for a moment, I think the article does raise an interesting question....how many people don't take the train simply because they can't bring along their beloved Fido?

GML provided some excellent revenue analysis on income that Amtrak could see by charging pet tickets....but I think one must also look at the opportunity cost of travelers who would love to take the train but don't due to the pet policy. Tufts University estimates that there are 50M dog owners in the US - that's a HUGE slice of the population.

The Pet Car on the Auto Train is a fascinating idea....IMO it would be a no-brainer for a Pet company to fully subsidize the operation and thus gain extraordinary brand-loyalty from the pet-loving pax (as of 2007, pet owners spent $40B a year spoling their pups and kitties...that's a lof of Puppy Chow ). AutoTrain already has such great patronage though - would love to see a Pet Car on one of the Silvers too (maybe pet potty breaks at RVR, SAV, TPA etc).

For the record, I agree with most posters so far that bringing animals on board in coach is a terrible idea for reasons of allergies, hygiene and passenger comfort. Sleeper cars "may" be open to debate but cleaning and disinfecting the rooms (more intensively than now) after each use would have to be incorporated and ENFORCED.

In summary, I think we are, of course, all educated enough to know that allowing pets on any train would never bring Amtrak to solvency alone. However, I might argue that 50 Million passionate animal lovers burning $47B a year is a population chunk that maybe should not be ignored.

 

[wayman]

There has been discussionn for years of putting a "pet car" on the Auto Train, to be sponsored by a pet food company - Purina, etc. The car would be a separate piece of equipment, only for pets and staffed by a representative of the pet food company. It would be a rolling kennel and the pet food company would sell pet food and other pet related items in the car. The Auto Train passengers would be able to "visit" their animals enroute and if necessary, they would walk them at the Florence middle of the night stop. Plans have been drawn, however the concept has gone no further. In my opinion, this is the only sensible route for pets and there is a strong demand on the part of the snow-birds to take their pets on the Auto Train. I fully agree with all the negative comments above regarding pets on any other route. It just doesn't work and the money is not there either.

Now that sounds like a worthwhile proposal. I could get behind something like that.

If Purina absorbs the operating loss...

Purina would probably consider it an advertising campaign. Captive audience in their ideal demographic (well-to-do pet owners). Direct pet-fares and merchandise sales on-board don't matter all that much, compared to the impression they make on their patrons. Not to mention that they get a guaranteed second opportunity to have most of these folks as a captive audience (their return trip), strengthening that advertising bond further.

 

[rrdude]

This is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard of, unless, as the OP suggested, it were a sep car... Like this idea I posed on that pet-board a few minutes ago........

Dog, cats, pets of ANY kind on public transportation, (other than short jaunts of subway, etc) is a BAD, and STOOPID idea....

I am a pet lover, and have had dogs, cats, (and ALL the "little critters" that come when you raise kids ) my entire life.

The LAST thing I want to do however, is to pay for a room (or a seat) that was just moments before occupied by a traveler, who "just loved her little 'Pookie', and let the dog/cat out of the crate, to crawl all over the roomette........"

Forget about the occasional ****, poop, or vomit that WILL happen if pet travel were allowed on trains.

And "segregate" those who are allergic to pets, and those who aren't? ("...like they do for smokers.........") sorry ain't gonna work. Not enuff equipment NOW on Amtrak, and why should Amtrak have to incur all the additional cleaning, sanitizing, etc ., etc., that would HAVE to happen

Best idea would be some entity to purchase, and staff baggage/pet cars that are environmentally safe for pets, and put them on Amtrak in lieu of the regular baggage cars. (thereby freeing up some much needed rolling stock)

Then if you want "little Pookie" to travel with you on the train, put the Pookie" in their cage, and charge them a super-premium to cover the costs of the new baggage/pet cars, and staff.

Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. They are animals. Leave at home with someone to watch them, or kennel them. They won't die. They won't even probably miss you that much.

My daughter treats her two toy poodles like they were children, makes ME wanna vomit.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Please no hate mail from PETA members but there are circus trains that haul animals around that aren't potty trained

(talk about entry level jobs! :lol: )so perhaps a pet car on the Auto Trains is not a bad idea! I like dogs too (really do believe cats should be seen @ the local zoo! )but sure don't want to share a train car with them so wouldn't be a cantidate for this position! There are lots of people in NYC who earn their living walking/caring for pets and they'd probably love a seasonal job going to/from Florida for the winter! :lol:

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

An can you just imagine when Fido gets a whiff of Fluffy and the chase is on, possibly starting in Coach and ending up in the Trans Dorm :lol: And no stopping in the Diner or Lounge for a treat.

 

[sunchaser]

There would be issues with a 'pet car' too. Somebody would stuck cleaning it (yuck!) This also would probably slow down the turnaround on that train. I think it would also make the stops longer to allow people to walk/board/depart with their pet from the other car. Sounds like a pain all the way around. I do love animals of just about every kind, but I don't think it's an appropriate place for pets. It would be too stressful for most animals to ride the train. Even some children do not do well with travel. We were on a flight in May, & there was toddler that cried during most of the flight. Thankfully, it was only a 90 minute flight. Every time he would cry, the woman (I think grandma) would stuff food in his mouth. It was a small commuter jet, not fun at all. As a mom & grandma, I tend to be more understanding of children's needs, but after a while, even I can become irritated with constant crying. I'm just glad it wasn't a longer time period!

At least on a train, you have the ability to move to another part of the train! Or hopefully the parent can take the child to another area to get them calmed down.

For our pets, it costs too much to have them all boarded. We have somebody pet/house sit them.

 

[Neil_M]

The only animals I want to see on a train are pieces of dead ones on the restaurant car menu..........

 

[haolerider]

There would be issues with a 'pet car' too. Somebody would stuck cleaning it (yuck!) This also would probably slow down the turnaround on that train. I think it would also make the stops longer to allow people to walk/board/depart with their pet from the other car. Sounds like a pain all the way around. I do love animals of just about every kind, but I don't think it's an appropriate place for pets. It would be too stressful for most animals to ride the train. Even some children do not do well with travel. We were on a flight in May, & there was toddler that cried during most of the flight. Thankfully, it was only a 90 minute flight. Every time he would cry, the woman (I think grandma) would stuff food in his mouth. It was a small commuter jet, not fun at all. As a mom & grandma, I tend to be more understanding of children's needs, but after a while, even I can become irritated with constant crying. I'm just glad it wasn't a longer time period! At least on a train, you have the ability to move to another part of the train! Or hopefully the parent can take the child to another area to get them calmed down.

For our pets, it costs too much to have them all boarded. We have somebody pet/house sit them.

Actually, the Auto Train concept would be fine with cleaning time, since it has plenty of time for cleaning. It also only has one stop in the middle of the night so there would be no delay involved. As mentioned before, it would not work on other LD trains, nor is there the demand on other trains that is seen on the Auto Train.

 

[mercedeslove]

The sound of an impatient dog can't be any worse than the sound of a screaming baby who won't shut up for anything.
I'd rather have an impatient dog that a baby.

I am sure parents can also demand the conductor lets them off at a 30 second stop so their kid could get fresh air.

Wrong on every count. Not to mention, babies wear diapers, people aren't allergic to them.

Uhm WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! There are many of the products used on these screaming children that people are allergic too! Powder, the stuff in baby wipes and what not.

Not to mention the smell that comes from them when they make a mess in their pants. It's even worse when you go to the bathroom and that nasty diaper is shoved into a trash can filling the small space up with the fresh sent of baby poop!

 

[rail_rider]

Wow! I haven't seen this kind of aggreement on a topic since I've joined the forum. Seems like a nightmare for Amtrak and us paying customers. I could see a passenger left behind at a station stop because he couldn't get his dog to perform in the time alloted. You know the media would make Amtrak out as the bad guy.

 

[Ryan]

The sound of an impatient dog can't be any worse than the sound of a screaming baby who won't shut up for anything.
I'd rather have an impatient dog that a baby.

I am sure parents can also demand the conductor lets them off at a 30 second stop so their kid could get fresh air.

Wrong on every count. Not to mention, babies wear diapers, people aren't allergic to them.

Uhm WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! There are many of the products used on these screaming children that people are allergic too! Powder, the stuff in baby wipes and what not.

Generally speaking, if you're keep your hands off the baby you don't come into contact with that sort of stuff. Not the case with animals. As for the smell, most parents that I know are conscientious enough to put that in a sealed baggie to contain the smell. Sure you'll run into some bad apples, but no more often than the person that needs to get a little more familiar with some soap and some hot water.

 

[Guest Karl]

The obvious line... If you feel Amtrak should carry pets (and I tend to agree with conditions to protect other passengers) call your congressman. Amtrak works for Congress.

The gun lobby asked that passengers be allowed to carry guns, now the passengers with guns will have to ride in locked in boxes.

So pet owners will likely have to ride in pet carriers.

 

[transit54]

The obvious line... If you feel Amtrak should carry pets (and I tend to agree with conditions to protect other passengers) call your congressman. Amtrak works for Congress.
The gun lobby asked that passengers be allowed to carry guns, now the passengers with guns will have to ride in locked in boxes.

So pet owners will likely have to ride in pet carriers.

You know, while that's the normally accepted answer for a lot of Amtrak's woes, I have to disagree. The last thing that Amtrak needs is more congressional meddling. Let the railroaders run the railroad. I think a lot of Amtrak's problems have their roots at the hands of legislators. It would be one thing to write your Congressman and suggest that Amtrak be appropriate funds for pet cars or something of that nature, but writing to complain about the current policy only is asking for another unfunded mandate passed by a majority of politicians who have probably never even stepped foot on a train. If you want your pets on the train, and you have a good way to make this happen, tell Amtrak.

 

[the_traveler]

Wow! I haven't seen this kind of aggreement on a topic since I've joined the forum. Seems like a nightmare for Amtrak and us paying customers. I could see a passenger left behind at a station stop because he couldn't get his dog to perform in the time alloted.

That almost happened to me - and I didn't have a dog! (And I think I know better than that! :lol: )

I was on the TE and rode with jimhudson to DAL, where we were to meet saxman on the platform. We were late getting to DAL and the xx minute layover turned out to be only a few minutes! We walked out the car door, and just had time to say hello to saxman and goodbye to jimhudson - when they CLOSED THE DOOR I JUST CAME OUT OF (and was next to)! I had to walk back to the next car to get on - and they were closing that door too! In fact, the CA had to step back out before I got on!

Before I climbed the stairs, the TE had departed DAL!

I doubt the "plan" could work. Dogs "doing their business" don't care that the stop is only 2 minutes long!

 

[sunchaser]

The obvious line... If you feel Amtrak should carry pets (and I tend to agree with conditions to protect other passengers) call your congressman. Amtrak works for Congress.
The gun lobby asked that passengers be allowed to carry guns, now the passengers with guns will have to ride in locked in boxes.

So pet owners will likely have to ride in pet carriers.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I still think there are plenty of people that should be in those 'locked boxes'

some of those pet owners probably wouldn't mind riding in pet carriers! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Edgefan]

Bottom line for my wife an I, we're off if dogs are on. She is very allergic and both of us put up with inconsiderate dog owners on both sides of our home. We would not even consider traveling on a train that allowed them. <_<

 

[rrdude]

An can you just imagine when Fido gets a whiff of Fluffy and the chase is on, possibly starting in Coach and ending up in the Trans Dorm :lol: And no stopping in the Diner or Lounge for a treat.

Hey, "MORE EXTRA REVENUE", you could sell tix for the "animal chase" on board the train..........

 

[The Metropolitan]

Perhaps the title should be "How can Amtrak turn off its existing customer base?"

I've encountered a whole lot of dog owners who think their dogs can do no wrong. I've twice watched dogs take a bite out of someone they thought "threatening" while their owners insisted "He's just playing." Add to that the allergy, noise, smell issues and delays when someone pulls the cord so sparky can do his business, and the trains will quite literally go to the dogs.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Perhaps the title should be "How can Amtrak turn off its existing customer base?"
I've encountered a whole lot of dog owners who think their dogs can do no wrong. I've twice watched dogs take a bite out of someone they thought "threatening" while their owners insisted "He's just playing." Add to that the allergy, noise, smell issues and delays when someone pulls the cord so sparky can do his business, and the trains will quite literally go to the dogs.

Their are people who really should have no dependants of any kind- be it a dog or a cat or a child - because they have no idea how to train it.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Perhaps the title should be "How can Amtrak turn off its existing customer base?"
I've encountered a whole lot of dog owners who think their dogs can do no wrong. I've twice watched dogs take a bite out of someone they thought "threatening" while their owners insisted "He's just playing." Add to that the allergy, noise, smell issues and delays when someone pulls the cord so sparky can do his business, and the trains will quite literally go to the dogs.

CDC dog bite stats: 4.5 million bitten last year.

The last thing a lot of them heard before the bite was "Oh, he doesn't bite".

Yeah, right.

 

[DET63]

Perhaps the title should be "How can Amtrak turn off its existing customer base?"
I've encountered a whole lot of dog owners who think their dogs can do no wrong. I've twice watched dogs take a bite out of someone they thought "threatening" while their owners insisted "He's just playing." Add to that the allergy, noise, smell issues and delays when someone pulls the cord so sparky can do his business, and the trains will quite literally go to the dogs.

CDC dog bite stats: 4.5 million bitten last year.

The last thing a lot of them heard before the bite was "Oh, he doesn't bite".

Yeah, right.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Perhaps the title should be "How can Amtrak turn off its existing customer base?"
I've encountered a whole lot of dog owners who think their dogs can do no wrong. I've twice watched dogs take a bite out of someone they thought "threatening" while their owners insisted "He's just playing." Add to that the allergy, noise, smell issues and delays when someone pulls the cord so sparky can do his business, and the trains will quite literally go to the dogs.

CDC dog bite stats: 4.5 million bitten last year.

The last thing a lot of them heard before the bite was "Oh, he doesn't bite".

Yeah, right.

Excellent!

 

[zoltan]

"Why not let little lap dogs on the train?""[Picture of a cute-looking dog]

Why can't Chloe ride on Amtrak -- legally?"

This demonstrates EXACTLY why Amtrak shouldn't allow dogs on their trains. Because of dog owners that talk like this - that, understandably, love their dogs, and decide it could do no wrong. And any transgression, any public misconduct, is put down to the adorable personal eccentricities of the creature. It isn't a misbehaving animal that needs to be taken out of the room right away, and punished so that it knows not to do it again, it is Chloe, the little lap dog.

When the dog starts to vandalise the sleeper, it's just being a dog. When it takes a **** somewhere, it's being a bit naughty. When it comes into the dining car or the lounge - we can't leave our dog on its own in the sleeper, now - and it barks at other customers, it's just being friendly. When it follows a timid kid around, it just likes them. When it begs for other peoples' food, it is, again, just being a dog.

If the people writing that could only get over the "my dog is an angel" complex, they might realise why myself, and many other loyal Amtrak customers, would fly or take a bus rather than risk spending a journey of a day or more nearby one of these creatures.

 

[volkris]

Saying that this proposal shouldn't be put in place unless it can make Amtrak solvent is pretty dumb. It could be that even the original author didn't really mean the statement, instead using it as a rhetorical advise to get some attention... and he succeeded.

The deciding factor as to whether this proposal can be done should be whether or not it can pay for itself, including the costs of pissed off existing passengers. Figure out how much it would cost per pet to implement whatever solution you can come up with and research to see if pet owners would pay that often enough.

Judging from the lack of movement on the Auto Train proposal it sounds like the answer is no.