If the Cardinal can't be brought up to daily status...

[GlobalistPotato]

I'm pretty sure that the Cardinal won't be able to go up to daily status until Amtrak can get their full Viewliner II order.

But considering budget cuts, it also might be the one route Amtrak would be most likely to cut, due to the tri-weekly frequency, limited equipment, its redundant, circuitous route between CHI and NYP, and some other factors.

But between these two extremes, what can Amtrak do?

This is what I think:

First off, add another sleeper or two to the consist, as the Cardinal only has one sleeper right now and it gets filled up quickly.

Because of the scenery along the route, Amtrak could upgrade the food service to a full diner and market the train as a "land cruise", or something like that. Or at least as a scenic route.

If the cardinal gets canceled, then Amtrak should make the Hoosier State run daily and make it have a more convenient schedule (like leaving Indy at 7:00 am instead of 6:00).

On the other end, a daily train could be run from Charleston, WV to WAS and points beyond, possibly under the "Northeast Regional" brand.

In addition, I'd also recommend a daily train between Cincinnati and Chicago, serving Ohio at a more convenient time than in the middle of the night.

Sure, I can see the Cardinal going daily and being expanded, but I fear that isn't likely right now.

 

[the_traveler]

First, it will never be marketed as a "land cruise"! That is one of the "excuses" that the public has against Amtrak operating the western LD trains - they are "land cruises" and "we should not subsidize a land cruise"!

Second, the Hoosier State is already daily. On the 4 days a week that the Cardinal does not operate, the Hoosier State operates, So there is already daily service between IND and CHI.

Third, If there were daily service from CIN (at a reasonable time), it would not allow for a same day turn to CHI - or even allow same day connections to western trains!

Fourth, I don't think they would "run" the NEC to CHW. After all, it just goes to HAR, but not to PGH.

 

[JeffW]

As a former Hoosier (first 22 years of my life), I'm always interested to see the train happenings in Indiana. I like some of your proposals, and for the Cardinal to continue, it needs support from every state involved. Right now, the Hoosier State and Cardinal are held with little regard simply because freight traffic holds it up (at time of writing, it is two stops out of Indianapolis and over four hours late). I know the freight delays are issues all the time...

I've thought about other possibilities within Indiana, and perhaps the one town that really should have train service is Bloomington. The two other major university towns (Indianapolis, Lafayette) have train service, and from what I remember, students can travel by train of the option exists. Granted, this would have to be a completely different route from the Hoosier State-Cardinal, but it's something I've dreamed about a few times. On the same note, Muncie (Ball State) could serve the same purpose. It's close to Fort Wayne, so I guess that was once served by the Three Rivers line.

For reference, here's a map of active commercial rail lines in Indiana:

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/MAIN-RR-11_V1.pdf

On a completely different note, it would be interesting to have a train through Wabash--then Amtrak could reintroduce the Wabash Cannonball!

 

[Eric S]

What sort of suggestions are you looking for here? It seems that the ones you mention (daily CHI-CIN and CWS-WAS-NYP, additional sleeping cars on the existing tri-weekly Cardinal) would require additional equipment. However, if that additional equipment exists, wouldn't just running the existing Cardinal as a daily service be less of an "extreme" than adding new trains to the line? And, none of these service expansions consider what sort of trackage upgrades CSX (and others) might require.

 

[jphjaxfl]

As a former Hoosier (first 22 years of my life), I'm always interested to see the train happenings in Indiana. I like some of your proposals, and for the Cardinal to continue, it needs support from every state involved. Right now, the Hoosier State and Cardinal are held with little regard simply because freight traffic holds it up (at time of writing, it is two stops out of Indianapolis and over four hours late). I know the freight delays are issues all the time...

I've thought about other possibilities within Indiana, and perhaps the one town that really should have train service is Bloomington. The two other major university towns (Indianapolis, Lafayette) have train service, and from what I remember, students can travel by train of the option exists. Granted, this would have to be a completely different route from the Hoosier State-Cardinal, but it's something I've dreamed about a few times. On the same note, Muncie (Ball State) could serve the same purpose. It's close to Fort Wayne, so I guess that was once served by the Three Rivers line.

For reference, here's a map of active commercial rail lines in Indiana:

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/MAIN-RR-11_V1.pdf

On a completely different note, it would be interesting to have a train through Wabash--then Amtrak could reintroduce the Wabash Cannonball!

As a former Hoosier (attended Indiana University Southeast in Southern Indiana from 1966-71) I appreciate the railmap of Indiana. I did not know the former Monon line had been truncated between Mitchell and Bloomington. I used to ride Amtrak's Floridian over that route between 1975 and 1979 when it was discontinued. When they finally started having an Amtrak stop in Bloomington, it was very well patronized by college students even though it stopped during the night. I also rode the Thoroughbed back and forth from New Albany to Bloomngton and other stops in the mid 1960s until it was discontinued in September, 1967 after the RPO was eliminated. The Thoroghbred still averaged 67 passengers per train and during college holidays would be very well partonized. I agree on resuming the Wabash Cannonball which ran right up until Amtrak started. It connected a lot of the medium sized cities and made some decent connections with other trains. I was generally traveling north and south accross Indiana, but remember passing the Cannonball in Logansport when I was traveling from Chicago to Cincinnat on the PC day local. Indiana needs to fund some Amtrak service.

 

[had8ley]

I think this is the only train I haven't ridden on the Amtrak system.(I did ride the "train that went no where"~ Cattlesburg, which I can't even find on a map) The trip reviews sound more like Greyhound bus mis-adventures that joyous train rides. Granted, the scenery may be spectacular but at what expense? Put on a bag/dorm; get the OBS out of the rev pleeper and serve some worthwhile food 7 days a week and I might buy a tix. The City went through this cycle when they were single level and had an Am-dinette that served food of questionable origin...

 

[stntylr]

On the other end, a daily train could be run from Charleston, WV to WAS and points beyond, possibly under the "Northeast Regional" brand.

Amtrak used to run the Blue Ridge and Shenandoah from WAS into West Virginia. I rode the Blue Ridge from Harper's Ferry into Washington once back in 1979.

In the mid 80's the service was turned over to the Maryland Transit Administration.

 

[Amtrak George]

I think daily service needs to be the goal. A triweekly train hardly ever works into my schedule, and then in the case of the Cardinal when I do force my schedule into a day that it runs, there are never any rooms available. As a result, when I go up toward Charleston, WV I drive (not by choice). I rode the whole route from Washington to Chicago (stopover in Charleston, WV)when it was Superliner several years back (there was more sleeper space available). It is a good train to keep, but in this day and time a triweekly train just doesn't cut it...adding a sleeper would be good as an alternative, but why not go daily if you get the equipment?

 

[afigg]

I'm pretty sure that the Cardinal won't be able to go up to daily status until Amtrak can get their full Viewliner II order.

...

First off, add another sleeper or two to the consist, as the Cardinal only has one sleeper right now and it gets filled up quickly.

The lack of equipment appears to be a major reason keeping the Cardinal from going to daily operation with 3 consists. Adding a 2nd Viewliner sleeper to 2 consists is not going to be any easier. There was a report a few weeks back that Amtrak was thinking about restoring up to 11 heritage crew-dorms to service to free up sleeper capacity until enough Viewliner IIs are delivered.

Because of the scenery along the route, Amtrak could upgrade the food service to a full diner and market the train as a "land cruise", or something like that. Or at least as a scenic route.

In the Cardinal FY10 Performance Improvement Plan report released last September, there was a footnote about the possibility of acquiring dome lounge cars to add to the Cardinal, presumably in DC. The idea has probably not gone anywhere because of cost and reluctance to add more old equipment to maintain. A better long term improvement would be to expand the Viewliner II order to include some single level sightseer lounge cars, but there is likely little funding for that.

As for marketing the Cardinal as a "land cruise", bad idea to do so overtly. Would make the train even more of a target for permanent cancellation from the anti-Amtrak crowd in Congress.

If the cardinal gets canceled, then Amtrak should make the Hoosier State run daily and make it have a more convenient schedule (like leaving Indy at 7:00 am instead of 6:00).

The problem with the Hoosier State is that in 2013, it will require state subsidies from IN to keep running. That means Amtrak is going to have to go the state government and legislature in 2012, asking for funding - in a red state in an election year. I suspect that is a not publicly stated reason to take the Cardinal daily is that it takes away the need for direct state subsidy to maintain Indianapolis-Chicago service.

Indianapolis to Chicago is at a prime distance for multiple daily frequency corridor service. If Amtrak can keep a single daily train alive for 3-4 more years on that corridor, by then the high speed upgrades to the Chicago-St. Louis and Chi-Detroit corridors will be in place and should show major increases in ridership and economic benefits. That - and sustained federal funding for intercity passenger rail projects - may change the political climate in Indiana and Indianapolis about getting serious about Chicago-Indianapolis-[Cincinnati] and Chicago-Fort Wayne-[Cleveland] corridor service.

The Cardinal will get be getting some trip time and reliability improvements from the funded Englewood Flyover project in Chicago and I gather from the IN Gateway project in the northern part of the state. The Cardinal report stated that Amtrak was planning to ask CN for a temporary re-route into Chicago to improve schedule reliability.

In addition, I'd also recommend a daily train between Cincinnati and Chicago, serving Ohio at a more convenient time than in the middle of the night.

So what you want is Chicago-Cincinnati corridor service. In the Mid-West Regional Rail System plan, they estimated the travel times for Chi-Cinn for a 110 mph corridor with (a lot of) upgrades, could be cut to 4:08, some 5 hours faster than it is now. Contact Gov. Kasich of Ohio and ask him how he feels about spending state money for train service to Cincinnati or Cleveland. Don't expect a positive response.

 

[Eric S]

The Cardinal will get be getting some trip time and reliability improvements from the funded Englewood Flyover project in Chicago and I gather from the IN Gateway project in the northern part of the state. The Cardinal report stated that Amtrak was planning to ask CN for a temporary re-route into Chicago to improve schedule reliability.service to Cincinnati or Cleveland. Don't expect a positive response.

I don't believe either of those projects will impact the Cardinal's route. Unless I'm mistaken about the route the Cardinal takes through the South Side of Chicago and then south suburbs and NW Indiana suburbs, both of those projects (Englewood Flyover and Indiana Gateway) are east along the routes of the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and Michigan trains.

 

[eagle628]

The Cardinal will get be getting some trip time and reliability improvements from the funded Englewood Flyover project in Chicago and I gather from the IN Gateway project in the northern part of the state. The Cardinal report stated that Amtrak was planning to ask CN for a temporary re-route into Chicago to improve schedule reliability.service to Cincinnati or Cleveland. Don't expect a positive response.

I don't believe either of those projects will impact the Cardinal's route. Unless I'm mistaken about the route the Cardinal takes through the South Side of Chicago and then south suburbs and NW Indiana suburbs, both of those projects (Englewood Flyover and Indiana Gateway) are east along the routes of the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and Michigan trains.

IIRC, the idea was for the Cardinal to get rerouted to the route the Saluki/Illini/CONO takes into Chicago.

 

[afigg]

I don't believe either of those projects will impact the Cardinal's route. Unless I'm mistaken about the route the Cardinal takes through the South Side of Chicago and then south suburbs and NW Indiana suburbs, both of those projects (Englewood Flyover and Indiana Gateway) are east along the routes of the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and Michigan trains.

Checking the info on the 2 projects, if I'm following it correctly, the CREATE Englewood Flyover project - when completed - will clear the way for other CREATE projects to then move forward which will benefit the Cardinal/Hoosier State. I was wrong on the Indiana Gateway project which affects the LSL, CL, and Michigan service trains. The problem is that the Englewood Flyover project, even though it is fully funded, is reportedly still stalled in negotiations between the FRA and NS, so add the contract negotiation delay, then the years? to build the Englewood Flyover, then the years to do all the engineering and get funding for the next CREATE projects. Any help there is a long ways off.

I've would have been better to just quote the Amtrak Cardinal report on the Buckingham Branch improvements in VA and their text on the situation in Chicago:

"To deal more directly with improving on-time performance, the team has evaluated locations where trains meet and has discussed track conditions with host railroads. In particular, the Buckingham Branch Railroad is doing a major crosstie replacement and track-surfacing program that will eliminate many slow orders. The Buckingham Branch provides right of way for the Cardinal between Orange and Clifton Forge, VA.

To improve reliability, Amtrak will explore a temporary reroute of the Cardinal into and out of Chicago. In the long run, and as a result of the CREATE Program for rail infrastructure improvements in Chicago, it is anticipated that the train will take a better and faster route via Englewood, the Norfolk Southern Chicago Line and a future track connection with the former Illinois Central Railroad at Grand Crossing. On an interim basis, however, Amtrak plans to ask Canadian National Railways (CN) for a temporary reroute over the former Grand Trunk Western Railway, the former Illinois Central mainline, and the St. Charles Air Line into Chicago Union Station. The team believes that the interim simplified route involving only CN would improve reliability compared to multiple handoffs of the train to differerent dispatchers from different railroads. It might also save a few minutes, albeit not as much as the future route via CREATE."

 

[Eric S]

I don't believe either of those projects will impact the Cardinal's route. Unless I'm mistaken about the route the Cardinal takes through the South Side of Chicago and then south suburbs and NW Indiana suburbs, both of those projects (Englewood Flyover and Indiana Gateway) are east along the routes of the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and Michigan trains.

Checking the info on the 2 projects, if I'm following it correctly, the CREATE Englewood Flyover project - when completed - will clear the way for other CREATE projects to then move forward which will benefit the Cardinal/Hoosier State. I was wrong on the Indiana Gateway project which affects the LSL, CL, and Michigan service trains. The problem is that the Englewood Flyover project, even though it is fully funded, is reportedly still stalled in negotiations between the FRA and NS, so add the contract negotiation delay, then the years? to build the Englewood Flyover, then the years to do all the engineering and get funding for the next CREATE projects. Any help there is a long ways off.

I've would have been better to just quote the Amtrak Cardinal report on the Buckingham Branch improvements in VA and their text on the situation in Chicago:

"To deal more directly with improving on-time performance, the team has evaluated locations where trains meet and has discussed track conditions with host railroads. In particular, the Buckingham Branch Railroad is doing a major crosstie replacement and track-surfacing program that will eliminate many slow orders. The Buckingham Branch provides right of way for the Cardinal between Orange and Clifton Forge, VA.

To improve reliability, Amtrak will explore a temporary reroute of the Cardinal into and out of Chicago. In the long run, and as a result of the CREATE Program for rail infrastructure improvements in Chicago, it is anticipated that the train will take a better and faster route via Englewood, the Norfolk Southern Chicago Line and a future track connection with the former Illinois Central Railroad at Grand Crossing. On an interim basis, however, Amtrak plans to ask Canadian National Railways (CN) for a temporary reroute over the former Grand Trunk Western Railway, the former Illinois Central mainline, and the St. Charles Air Line into Chicago Union Station. The team believes that the interim simplified route involving only CN would improve reliability compared to multiple handoffs of the train to differerent dispatchers from different railroads. It might also save a few minutes, albeit not as much as the future route via CREATE."

Ah. Thanks, I had overlooked that part about possibly rerouting the Cardinal's Chicago entry/exit. Has anyone heard anything more about this possibility?

 

[jis]

Ah. Thanks, I had overlooked that part about possibly rerouting the Cardinal's Chicago entry/exit. Has anyone heard anything more about this possibility?

Running it on CN (ex-IC) and then across to its current route is exactly what the plan is and has been for a while.

 

[Monon81]

I don't believe either of those projects will impact the Cardinal's route. Unless I'm mistaken about the route the Cardinal takes through the South Side of Chicago and then south suburbs and NW Indiana suburbs, both of those projects (Englewood Flyover and Indiana Gateway) are east along the routes of the Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited, and Michigan trains.

Checking the info on the 2 projects, if I'm following it correctly, the CREATE Englewood Flyover project - when completed - will clear the way for other CREATE projects to then move forward which will benefit the Cardinal/Hoosier State. I was wrong on the Indiana Gateway project which affects the LSL, CL, and Michigan service trains. The problem is that the Englewood Flyover project, even though it is fully funded, is reportedly still stalled in negotiations between the FRA and NS, so add the contract negotiation delay, then the years? to build the Englewood Flyover, then the years to do all the engineering and get funding for the next CREATE projects. Any help there is a long ways off.

I've would have been better to just quote the Amtrak Cardinal report on the Buckingham Branch improvements in VA and their text on the situation in Chicago:

"To deal more directly with improving on-time performance, the team has evaluated locations where trains meet and has discussed track conditions with host railroads. In particular, the Buckingham Branch Railroad is doing a major crosstie replacement and track-surfacing program that will eliminate many slow orders. The Buckingham Branch provides right of way for the Cardinal between Orange and Clifton Forge, VA.

To improve reliability, Amtrak will explore a temporary reroute of the Cardinal into and out of Chicago. In the long run, and as a result of the CREATE Program for rail infrastructure improvements in Chicago, it is anticipated that the train will take a better and faster route via Englewood, the Norfolk Southern Chicago Line and a future track connection with the former Illinois Central Railroad at Grand Crossing. On an interim basis, however, Amtrak plans to ask Canadian National Railways (CN) for a temporary reroute over the former Grand Trunk Western Railway, the former Illinois Central mainline, and the St. Charles Air Line into Chicago Union Station. The team believes that the interim simplified route involving only CN would improve reliability compared to multiple handoffs of the train to differerent dispatchers from different railroads. It might also save a few minutes, albeit not as much as the future route via CREATE."

Ah. Thanks, I had overlooked that part about possibly rerouting the Cardinal's Chicago entry/exit. Has anyone heard anything more about this possibility?

Since this post, the Englewood Flyover has been given the green light.

Haven't heard more about the reroute via the St. Charles Airline, which would be a welcome, although temporary, improvement over the current crawl through Yard Center, grade crossings galore on the south side and the bottleneck at 75th Street.

The proposed eventual solution to the Cardinal/Hoosier State entry to Chicago involves the connection from the CN to the NS at Grand Crossing. This would also be used by CONO and Saluki. The CREATE status map shows the Grand Crossing project as having gotten through Phase I: Environmental and Preliminary Engineering.

 

[domefoamer]

It pains me to say this, but under the present circumstance of budget-cutting and a hostile GOP house, the best way to improve the Cardinal experience might be to cancel the Amtrak train and bring in some tourist RR operator to run the New River Gorge section with better equipment and a tourist-friendly attitude. But that's a defeatist approach that I never would have taken before I rode the eastbound Cardinal in the spring of '10. It was surely the worst railroad ride of my life, and I cant imagine taking it again, though DC is my most frequent destination.

My Cardinal didn't derail or burst into flames. It wasn't even late. The AC was operational. But rather than paying $1000 to buy two rooms for three people, I risked an overnight in coach. The behavior of my fellow passengers was the problem. As evening turned to midnight to the wee hours, most in my coach made no attempt to sleep. Maybe it was the numerous late-night boardings, or the AC outlets at every seat. Imagine the din from a half-dozen laptops and DVD players, randomly mixing basketball playoffs with violent movies. One man struck up an endless one-sided conversation with another. He stood in the aisle, facing my seat, talking loudly, making sleep impossible. I sympathized, because these random encounters are one of the true joys of train travel. And because the diner-lounge was locked for the night, there was no other public space they might retreat to. After a sleepless night, I had no energy to enjoy the impressive New River Gorge through the narrow, dirty windows. At times, I actually longer for bustitutuion!

Better equipment and more of it would be great, but the fix for the problems I experienced would be cheaper than that. How about some new rules and practices?

1) Require that all passengers using devices producing audio must use headphones or earbuds. If someone forgets theirs, sell them on the train, for a nice profit.

2) Make coach cars quiet cars after midnight, requiring "inside voices" only.

3) Require one conductor to stay awake on duty and enforce the above. (on my Cardinal, they didn't.)

4) Dim overhead lighting by midnight, or better yet, replace it with seat-mounted, downcast aisle lights. LEDs are cheap as dirt, and require no wiring if they use long-lasting batteries. And how about privacy curtains along the aisles? (Do the conductors think we'll be having sex or cooking crack if they can't see us at all times?)

5) Make the cafe-lounge accessible to garrulous passengers at all hours. Lock up the food, but don't lock the car.

These measure might cost something, but that's much less than the cost of three consists of Superliners, or additional sleepers at affordable prices. Without them, I fear overnight coach anywhere is doomed to be a miserable experience. Too many people have forgotten basic manners of conducting oneself in public, so we need to make coach seats a less public place.

 

[AlanB]

1) Require that all passengers using devices producing audio must use headphones or earbuds. If someone forgets theirs, sell them on the train, for a nice profit.

Already a requirement. It should have been enforced.

2) Make coach cars quiet cars after midnight, requiring "inside voices" only.

Also a requirement and in fact some train crews will even make such an announcement.

3) Require one conductor to stay awake on duty and enforce the above. (on my Cardinal, they didn't.)

Conductors are required to be awake and most certainly were awake, since the engineer would stop the train the second he got no response via radio from the conuctor. And seeing as how the engineer calls out every signal to the condcutor, who must acknowledge that radio transmission, you'd wouldn't have gotten very far at all if the conductor was asleep.

Most likely you are confusing the car attendant with the conductor. The car attendants are permitted to sleep for several hours during the night and are even given room to do so. Should you ever encounter problems like this again, head to the cafe car where the conductors will be sitting and nicely request that they deal with the situaion.

4) Dim overhead lighting by midnight, or better yet, replace it with seat-mounted, downcast aisle lights. LEDs are cheap as dirt, and require no wiring if they use long-lasting batteries. And how about privacy curtains along the aisles? (Do the conductors think we'll be having sex or cooking crack if they can't see us at all times?)

While I don't travel in coach, it is my understanding that they are supposed and do dim the lights. Of course for safety reasons in cannot be completely dark. And while one LED might be cheap, Amtrak would need several thousand.

As for curtains, they'd end up getting torn down as people try to get in and out of their seats and fall.

5) Make the cafe-lounge accessible to garrulous passengers at all hours. Lock up the food, but don't lock the car.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good point re the Lounge/Cafe being locked up! I thought the Conductors always had their paperwork in the Lounge/Cafe or DinerLite @ Night, Ive never seen these cars Locked/Closed to Pax except when in the Station or when getting close to the end of the Line! IMO there's no excuse for locking out pax from these cars! :help:

 

[Monon81]

Having done coach at night, I can sympathize with your concerns about public manners. I'm curious about one thing missing in your account. Did you ask the loudmouth or the movie players to quiet down? Just asking often does the trick. I have done so and gotten courteous responses. I have rarely seen discourteous, belligerent passengers for whom a simple request does no good. Some of those were met by police a few stations short of their intended destination.

In my experience, most passengers use earphones. Lights are dimmed late at night (on the eastbound Cardinal, that's after Indianapolis at the latest). That being said, I bring a mask and earplugs along--it could be a rattle, a squeak or the wrong angle of light.

On-board service is typically on duty for the entire run of a long-distance train. Between middle-of-the night station stops, they may get very little chance for sleep. However, naps are not allowed for conductors on duty; they're operating crew responsible for the safe operation of the train. It's possible the conductor was somewhere a few cars away, doing paperwork, but he or she was not catching z's.

 

[Ryan]

The behavior of my fellow passengers was the problem.

They're no different than the coach pax on any other train.

Suggesting that an entire route be cancelled because of one bad trip by one person is the height of ridiculousness.

 

[jis]

It pains me to say this, but under the present circumstance of budget-cutting and a hostile GOP house, the best way to improve the Cardinal experience might be to cancel the Amtrak train and bring in some tourist RR operator to run the New River Gorge section with better equipment and a tourist-friendly attitude. But that's a defeatist approach that I never would have taken before I rode the eastbound Cardinal in the spring of '10. It was surely the worst railroad ride of my life, and I cant imagine taking it again, though DC is my most frequent destination.

So your solution is to remove a train that serves as transportation for many in need of such and replace it by one that would be a hobby for you and a few others. Why does this approach make sense in general? Your porposed train will not take you to DC or anywhere else because it will possibly run from Clifton Forge to White Sulfur Springs and be done with it.

My Cardinal didn't derail or burst into flames. It wasn't even late. The AC was operational. But rather than paying $1000 to buy two rooms for three people, I risked an overnight in coach. The behavior of my fellow passengers was the problem. As evening turned to midnight to the wee hours, most in my coach made no attempt to sleep. Maybe it was the numerous late-night boardings, or the AC outlets at every seat. Imagine the din from a half-dozen laptops and DVD players, randomly mixing basketball playoffs with violent movies. One man struck up an endless one-sided conversation with another. He stood in the aisle, facing my seat, talking loudly, making sleep impossible. I sympathized, because these random encounters are one of the true joys of train travel. And because the diner-lounge was locked for the night, there was no other public space they might retreat to. After a sleepless night, I had no energy to enjoy the impressive New River Gorge through the narrow, dirty windows. At times, I actually longer for bustitutuion!

Since you were pining for a bus ride, did you go back and do the same route by bus just to check out how it would go? How was it?

 

[domefoamer]

I'm glad that some of you jumped in to resist canceling the Cardinal, and disappointed if you hadn't spoken up. I was just raising a red flag that his combination of modern loutishness and insufficient equipment and lax rules enforcement was really that irritating on my trip. Also, I was suggesting that there might be a way to see the New River Gorge that beats today's Amtrak train. Operations like the Royal Gorge scenic RR in Colorado certainly do show off that supreme scenery better than the passenger trains that preceded it. I don't like to see any small-town riders lose service, either, but at a day-on, day-off schedule, how useful is it?

Being no expert on the Amtrak rule book, I'm glad there are regulations against what I saw and heard that night. But I didn't want to play the enforcer when dozens of strangers in my car had their individual parties going. My wife offered her earbuds to one of the loudest movie-watchers, who refused them. I was clearly the odd man out here, a posse of one who, at five-foot-six and 57, was not very personally intimidating. I had earbuds and music playing, but when a guy is standing five feet away and facing me and talking like a game-show host, the mind is apt to pay attention, even after a sleeping pill. Some lights were dimmed, but those aisle lights were in everyone's eyes all night. My wife slept like a baby-- she's an Olympic-quality sleeper, while I'm a bit of an insomniac. But it's not only my problem, surely. Here I'm posing the issue to see who might share my concerns or like my ideas, that's all.

Not that I'm a coach snob, either. That fall, I had a chance to ride the Adirondack, featuring the Ocean View dome car both ways. When I wasn't foaming, I enjoyed hours of conversation and conviviality that I'll always remember and cherish. But that was a day train, not filled to capacity, with two public lounge cars.

 

[domefoamer]

Out of necessity, I took one Greyhound bus ride recently. It started with the driver's five-minute lecture, hectoring us about bus rules and acceptable etiquette. The route took us past many more cars and billboards than would a train. Otherwise, it was almost as good as a coach seat on the Cardinal. The best part of the bus, of course, was that it went where I needed to go, frequently and cheaply, and the really best part was that it only lasted 90 minutes.

That's all I needed then, just practical transportation when my car was in the shop. That's all that most residents of the small W.Va. towns along the way are looking for, I suspect. They live in those mountains year round, and they've seen the view. Another thing it pains me to say is that many folks don't share my love of scenery, not when there's ten thousand movies available on their laptop multiplexes.

Those are all my recent my eastern Amtrak experiences, limited but not that uncommon. The Adirondack met both my purposes, delivering great scenery and comfortable transportation, but the Cardinal didn't do either very well. Makes me sad, too, but "I'm just sayin...

 

[eagle628]

The behavior of my fellow passengers was the problem.

So what you're saying is that since you had a bad trip, the train should get canceled? If we went by that standard, there would be no transportation in this country. There's bad trips in any mode of transportation, and to suggest that we should remove trains (or busses or planes or whatever) because someone didn't like the experience is nonsense.

 

[eagle628]

Out of necessity, I took one Greyhound bus ride recently. It started with the driver's five-minute lecture, hectoring us about bus rules and acceptable etiquette. The route took us past many more cars and billboards than would a train. Otherwise, it was almost as good as a coach seat on the Cardinal. The best part of the bus, of course, was that it went where I needed to go, frequently and cheaply, and the really best part was that it only lasted 90 minutes.

You're comparing an hour and a half bus ride with an overnight train trip, and making a judgement as to which is better based on that? How do you expect to come to any sort of reasonable conclusion based on that?