Influencing change in track-owner attitudes

[Railbender]

I am part of one of the recently formed N.A.R.P. long-distnace route teams that is to advocate on behalf of a particular route. My route team is the Lake Shore Limited and has members from the Toledo, Elyria, Erie, Buffalo, Syracuse, Schenectady, Albany, NYP, and Boston areas...

If one was to lobby in any way regarding the delays caused on this route by the freight lines, how should one go about it? How have you done so along the LD route where you live?

I understand from a LSL team member in Worcester that CSX (Boston/Poughkeepsie to Cleveland) and the Metro North (Poughkeepsie to Yonkers) are the worst offenders on our route.

Should I write to the freight line? My mayor, state officials, federal officials? Has anybody had any success here? I would love to see the LSL on-time performance improved...

Anybody have a link to the exact terms by which it is spelled out that Amtrak is to receive prefernce on these freight-owned lines so I can refer to such in any correspondence?

 

[AlanB]

Hmm, I've long considered the worst offender to be NS between Toledo and Chicago. I've had more delays there than probably any place else along the line. I'm not suggesting the CSX be left off the hook either, I've definately encountered delays between CLE and ALB thanks to CSX. I've only taken the Boston leg once, and we were reasonably ontime that run, but I can't comment fairly on that.

I do take some issue with MN being part of the problem. While I'm less than happy with how MN treats Amtrak's Acela service, I don't think that I've ever encountered a delay while on Amtrak riding along MN's Hudson line. I've always been quite happy with their performance along the river.

Now oddly enough Amtrak does report that passenger trains delayed the LSL for 1,650 minutes for last fiscal year. However, taking a look at the other numbers freight train interference accounted for 5,835 and slow orders accounted for 1,339 minutes. And if I had to bet, I'd say that much of the delays that MN did cause, were thanks to the fact that other delays had the LSL hitting MN territory at the wrong time. If the LSL hits MN territory during it's alloted slot time, then things are usually pretty good.

It's when eastbound delays are encountered before the train ever gets to MN territory that create most of the problems IMHO.

One other thing you might want to fight to stop is the US Customs service that routinely shows up in Syracuse and delays the LSL by close to two hours while agents conduct searches for people that they failed to stop from crossing the border in the first place. Somehow the logic seems to be that it's better to delay 300 paying legitimate passengers, than to actually do their jobs right in the first place.

 

[had8ley]

I am part of one of the recently formed N.A.R.P. long-distnace route teams that is to advocate on behalf of a particular route. My route team is the Lake Shore Limited and has members from the Toledo, Elyria, Erie, Buffalo, Syracuse, Schenectady, Albany, NYP, and Boston areas...
If one was to lobby in any way regarding the delays caused on this route by the freight lines, how should one go about it? How have you done so along the LD route where you live?

I understand from a LSL team member in Worcester that CSX (Boston/Poughkeepsie to Cleveland) and the Metro North (Poughkeepsie to Yonkers) are the worst offenders on our route.

Should I write to the freight line? My mayor, state officials, federal officials? Has anybody had any success here? I would love to see the LSL on-time performance improved...

Anybody have a link to the exact terms by which it is spelled out that Amtrak is to receive prefernce on these freight-owned lines so I can refer to such in any correspondence?

Lots of luck with the NS. Their own crews don't call it the "****-Southern" for nothing. I think if they had a heart they would cut it out immediately and call an extra just to run over it.

 

[Railbender]

Hmm, I've long considered the worst offender to be NS between Toledo and Chicago. I've had more delays there than probably any place else along the line. I'm not suggesting the CSX be left off the hook either, I've definately encountered delays between CLE and ALB thanks to CSX. I've only taken the Boston leg once, and we were reasonably ontime that run, but I can't comment fairly on that.
I do take some issue with MN being part of the problem. While I'm less than happy with how MN treats Amtrak's Acela service, I don't think that I've ever encountered a delay while on Amtrak riding along MN's Hudson line. I've always been quite happy with their performance along the river.

Now oddly enough Amtrak does report that passenger trains delayed the LSL for 1,650 minutes for last fiscal year. However, taking a look at the other numbers freight train interference accounted for 5,835 and slow orders accounted for 1,339 minutes. And if I had to bet, I'd say that much of the delays that MN did cause, were thanks to the fact that other delays had the LSL hitting MN territory at the wrong time. If the LSL hits MN territory during it's alloted slot time, then things are usually pretty good.

It's when eastbound delays are encountered before the train ever gets to MN territory that create most of the problems IMHO.

One other thing you might want to fight to stop is the US Customs service that routinely shows up in Syracuse and delays the LSL by close to two hours while agents conduct searches for people that they failed to stop from crossing the border in the first place. Somehow the logic seems to be that it's better to delay 300 paying legitimate passengers, than to actually do their jobs right in the first place.

Thanks, Alan. I was just quoting a professor from Boston who gave me those figures...I have no verification. I think I will write to all three and in reference to all three to various elected officials and the Transportation Secretary. If each of the three thought they were the only onel delaying the train, and so they all did on any particular run, the LSL would be woefully behind. Guess that's the predicament in many ways...If they all did their best, the delays would be minimal. If each thinks "well, the other gets away with it" and therefore parks the train repeatedly...well, that seems to be where we are?

Can you point me to an exact document from the formation of Amtrak or subsequently that states the national passenger rail system is to have priority? I don't want to leave any shadow of doubt when I write these brief letters...

 

[WICT106]

A quick reply, Railbender: Look up the text for RPSA 1970, or look up the text for the 1996 legislation that went into effect when certain provisions of RPSA 1970 expired. Those documents contain the language that gives the National Rail Passenger Corporation the priority to operate on freight railroad tracks.

 

[Railbender]

A quick reply, Railbender: Look up the text for RPSA 1970, or look up the text for the 1996 legislation that went into effect when certain provisions of RPSA 1970 expired. Those documents contain the language that gives the National Rail Passenger Corporation the priority to operate on freight railroad tracks.

Thanks, WICT106! I will do a search this evening...I didn't even know where to start. Appreciate your reply.

 

[amtrakmichigan]

One other thing you might want to fight to stop is the US Customs service that routinely shows up in Syracuse and delays the LSL by close to two hours while agents conduct searches for people that they failed to stop from crossing the border in the first place. Somehow the logic seems to be that it's better to delay 300 paying legitimate passengers, than to actually do their jobs right in the first place.

Alan, what is this all about?? What is U.S. customs agents doing in Syracuse N.Y.? Could this be considered an illeagel search if the agents went too far with questioning american citizens? I always thought once your in the U.S. " your in". An example would be the citizens of Cuba who make it to shore in a life raft and are alowed to stay as we have seen in the past. Could you explain what happens in Syracuse NY a little more?

 

[AlanB]

One other thing you might want to fight to stop is the US Customs service that routinely shows up in Syracuse and delays the LSL by close to two hours while agents conduct searches for people that they failed to stop from crossing the border in the first place. Somehow the logic seems to be that it's better to delay 300 paying legitimate passengers, than to actually do their jobs right in the first place.

Alan, what is this all about?? What is U.S. customs agents doing in Syracuse N.Y.? Could this be considered an illeagel search if the agents went too far with questioning american citizens? I always thought once your in the U.S. " your in". An example would be the citizens of Cuba who make it to shore in a life raft and are alowed to stay as we have seen in the past. Could you explain what happens in Syracuse NY a little more?

My understanding is that anytime you are within 100 miles of a border, Rick correct me if I'm wrong here, that US Customs can stop you and inspect your credentials. I know for example that if one is driving south on I-87, there is often a check point on the highway about a hundred miles south of the border. Everyone has to stop and answer a few questions right on the highway. If they don't like your answers, then you get pulled into the rest area right by the check point for further questioning and possible searches.

So in any event, Customs agents have routinely been boarding the LSL and causing extensive delays to the train. I have no idea just how many illegals they've caught using this method, but I'm guessing not too many. There are some who believe that this was ordered by the White House to cause further harm to the hated Amtrak. I personally don't think that it goes that far, but who knows for sure?

The problem is that no consideration is being given to the other 300 legitimate passengers who are now made late for work, late for an event, dinner, or whatever. If US Customs had half a brain, they'd put a few agents on the train, let the train leave, and then pick up those agents further down the line either at the next stop or even at a RR crossing. But oh wait, we're dealing with a bureaucracy here. Thinking and common sense always get thrown out the window in that case.

As for the Cuban example that you stated, the rules are a bit different there because of the fact that it's a Communist Dictatorship. And I think it's done in part to embarrass Castro. However, I do believe that if they find out that you have a criminal record that they will still return you to Cuba even if you make it into the country. Again, Rick may know better about this than I do, should he wish to chime in on this.

 

[Railbender]

Several years ago (probably 2004?) I experienced this in March on the west-bound Empire Builder, in Montana, I think. I had wished there would have been some warning that this might occur so I could have dug for my i.d. ahead of time and carried it with me so whenever the agents boarded I would have been prepared. As with just about everything, with some fore-thought this could be handled so much better.

I have yet to experience this on the LSL which I ride more frequently...

 

[AlanB]

I have yet to experience this on the LSL which I ride more frequently...

Well the you've been very lucky, because I understand that it's a very frequent problem. In fact even ESPA (Empire State Passengers Association) made note of it in their July/August 2006 newsletter, quote below. However I must apologize, since as you will all note, the inspections are happening at Rochester, not Syracuse.

The second unfolding issue is potentiality more troubling however. News has started to filter into ESPA of U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency activity negatively impacting both passengers and train operations at Rochester. Reportedly, significant delays have been caused by Border Patrol agents boarding the Lake Shore Limited to conduct inspections of passengers and baggage on more than one occasion.

Their entire newsletter can be found here.