Jacksonville Terminal

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Now I don't know how the Deland-Daytona area is developing because I'm not down there much, but by looking at Google Earth, I see there's a huge plot of land north of US-92 (which is probably swamp) that would be a perfect spot to build a FEC-CSX connector. I agree, Palatka does have a nice museum, but Jacksonville actually has a lot more history and the old Union Terminal would be much more suitable for operations than today's little station.

A line cutting through from DeLand over to Daytona would be sublime in my book. It would certainly be a more appealing option than the Thruway connecting service currently offered from DeLand Station (which is actually nothing more than a taxi-cab).

 

That area of Volusia County south of State Road 40 and north of US-92 is largely undeveloped cyprus and scrub pine forests. A possible route would involve using the existing four-mile spur branching off the CSX A-line near the current Amtrak station (f.k.a. DeLand Junction), or building a new branch within a few miles north before hitting Deleon Springs. This track would continue northeast along the north side of US-92 to Daytona. Punching through to the FEC main by continuing east across I-95 could be cost-prohibitive and unpopular, so the line could instead turn north once reaching the interstate. A station could potentially be located near I-95 and US-92 (International Speedway Blvd), along Daytona's western edge.

 

From there, the track would follow north alongside the interstate up until the junction of I-95 and US-1. At this point, where the FEC main line crosses from the opposite side of the interstate, the tracks could merge and the connection between CSX and FEC would be complete.

 

 

 

Not gonna happen (at least in our lifetimes). Almost all of that land in middle Volusia County (between East Volusia and West Volusia) is protected "water aquifer recharge" land. It also contains the Tiger Bay State Forest which is a state wildlife/recreation area. Your closest chance of ever having any kind of connector line between the A-line and the FEC is down at WPB. It might be feasible to reconstruct the old FEC mainline through Hastings and Spuds over to East Palatka, but IIRC there are several locations where the old FEC right of way has been sold off and developed over up in the Hastings area. That right of way used to be the old FEC mainline until they built the cutoff and shortened it many years ago. So with those points in mind, this is most likely never going to happen. It would be far easier to establish the railroad operations to mirror the days of JUT (just by backing into the old station), but there would be some needed upgrades so as not to interfere with CSX's operations at Moncrief yard and Beaver Street. In any event, it will probably be a while if ever before service is provided at the old terminal.

 

 

OBS gone freight....

 

[Amtrak Alan]

Now I don't know how the Deland-Daytona area is developing because I'm not down there much, but by looking at Google Earth, I see there's a huge plot of land north of US-92 (which is probably swamp) that would be a perfect spot to build a FEC-CSX connector. I agree, Palatka does have a nice museum, but Jacksonville actually has a lot more history and the old Union Terminal would be much more suitable for operations than today's little station.

A line cutting through from DeLand over to Daytona would be sublime in my book. It would certainly be a more appealing option than the Thruway connecting service currently offered from DeLand Station (which is actually nothing more than a taxi-cab).

 

That area of Volusia County south of State Road 40 and north of US-92 is largely undeveloped cyprus and scrub pine forests. A possible route would involve using the existing four-mile spur branching off the CSX A-line near the current Amtrak station (f.k.a. DeLand Junction), or building a new branch within a few miles north before hitting Deleon Springs. This track would continue northeast along the north side of US-92 to Daytona. Punching through to the FEC main by continuing east across I-95 could be cost-prohibitive and unpopular, so the line could instead turn north once reaching the interstate. A station could potentially be located near I-95 and US-92 (International Speedway Blvd), along Daytona's western edge.

 

From there, the track would follow north alongside the interstate up until the junction of I-95 and US-1. At this point, where the FEC main line crosses from the opposite side of the interstate, the tracks could merge and the connection between CSX and FEC would be complete.

 

 

 

Not gonna happen (at least in our lifetimes). Almost all of that land in middle Volusia County (between East Volusia and West Volusia) is protected "water aquifer recharge" land. It also contains the Tiger Bay State Forest which is a state wildlife/recreation area. Your closest chance of ever having any kind of connector line between the A-line and the FEC is down at WPB. It might be feasible to reconstruct the old FEC mainline through Hastings and Spuds over to East Palatka, but IIRC there are several locations where the old FEC right of way has been sold off and developed over up in the Hastings area. That right of way used to be the old FEC mainline until they built the cutoff and shortened it many years ago. So with those points in mind, this is most likely never going to happen. It would be far easier to establish the railroad operations to mirror the days of JUT (just by backing into the old station), but there would be some needed upgrades so as not to interfere with CSX's operations at Moncrief yard and Beaver Street. In any event, it will probably be a while if ever before service is provided at the old terminal.

 

 

OBS gone freight....

 

Anyone have any old photos of the Jacksonville terminal?

thanks

 

[Ocklawaha]

Watch us here in Jacksonville, there is MUCH more going on then the Jacksonville Terminal, "Jacksonville Transportation Center", project. Feel free to check out my blog: jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com You'll find a post index in the lower left of the blog.

Yes, Amtrak is going to return to Jacksonville Terminal. The largest roadblock is a convention Center at the old Station which is too small for Conventions but big enough to throw a monkey wrench in the plan.

First look for Jacksonville to announce a new Convention Center at the current Duval County Courthouse site, next to the Hyatt downtown.

Amtrak will indeed come home to JTC, it's not just a roumor or dream, it's a FACT. Likewise Jacksonville will join Miami-Orlando-Tampa as the Northern link of any "Higher" Speed Rail (HSR) Florida corridor. Also watch for Jacksonville to get named as the Atlantic anchor to the Gulf Coast Corridor and thus become the only American City to link with 3 HSR corridors, IE: Southeast, Gulf Coast, Florida.

Even if HSR never gets beyond talk, it will throw a ton of money at Amtrak and Jacksonville will be the hub of the deep South and Florida. The official conversation is way past "will they move downtown", and has become one of which track goes where, platform size, etc...

The service on the FLORIDA EAST COAST is also a given, there have been quiet meetings between the top brass, the City, State, Railroad, and Amtrak on this subject. It's no longer a matter of "IF" but rather a matter of "WHEN".

The Jacksonville terminal in it's original version had 32 tracks. Some 29 tracks were passenger tracks with platforms. Of these 1-15 were stub or "head" tracks, which ended at the bumper posts. (Some of these massive decorative concrete posts still stand within the Convention Center Concourse). The other 14 tracks passed to the South of the station and those will likely be rebuilt.

I represent a group that is pushing for 9 tracks, all double ended. The USDOT did a study in 1982? of Transportation Centers and gave Jax the need for 12 tracks.

Watch for a fight to re-re-construct the LEE/PARK street viaduct as the rebuild of the 1980's was designed to view the station or downtown from Water Street. Since the Skyway has cut that view to pieces, and the bridge only has a ground clearence of 16 feet, watch for it rise to 23.6 feet (standard railroad clearence) for at least 8 tracks.

Also watch the plan change from a Transportation Center that looks more like a transportation neighborhood, to a true center located almost 100% on former Jacksonville Terminal ground.

You will see Amtrak wake the heck up and start splitting the trains in Jacksonville (as God intended). Trains such as a new Vacationer will roll in from NYC and exit southbound for both Orlando-Lakeland-Tampa, as well as Daytona Beach-Melbourne-Ft. Pierce-West Palm-Miami.

Trains to or from the FEC will NOT need to back in, and the FEC is poised to grab a lions share of the business. They even have dialog with the City for LRT right of way to the southeast side of town.

Amtrak recently came to Jacksonville and in a meeting of "high level" transportation officials unveiled a "5-Train-Plan-FLORIDA". This is very cool and has obtained a lot of press attention. Carried to it's fullest with Georgia's Government fully involved we may soon see:

Atlantia-Jessup-Jacksonville (JAX) x 2 daily.

Atlanta-Macon-Valdosta-JAX x 3 daily

Jax-Tallahassee-Pensacola-(maybe Mobile-Biloxi-New Orleans) x 5 daily

Jax-Ocala-Lakeland-Tampa/Ft. Myers/Sarasota x 5 daily.

Jax-Palatka-Orlando-Tampa x 3 daily

Jax-Palatka-Orlando-Winter Haven-West Palm-Miami x 2 daily.

Jax-Daytona Beach-Melbourne-West Palm-Miami x 5 daily.

PLUS:

Jax-Charleston-Fayetteville-DC-NYC

Jax-Columbia-Raleigh-DC-NYC

Jax-Charlotte-Charlottesville-DC-NYC

Amtrak considers that they will break even or even profit from this 5 train plan. Following the lead of San Diegans, Cascades, and Surfliners, Jacksonville is poised to take the Southeastern hub by default. But it won't get that far by default, the City and Jacksonville Transporation Authority are alive and deep in the combat zone to make this happen.

Please don't run out in the street yelling that Amtrak is going to return and swell Jacksonville Terminal to pre-Amtrak prominence overnight. It may take a couple of years to get all the ducks in a row, but hang on to your hats Passenger Train people, WE ARE MOVING FORWARD on many rail fronts in Jacksonville.

City owned neutral port terminal railroad.

City owned and reconstructed "S" line from the Jax Terminal to north of Springfield Yard.

Rebuilt Convention Center back to Rail, bus, streetcar, monorail use.

Completion of the Skyway Monorail.

Building and Completion of a major Monorail expansion.

Expansion of Amtrak into Corridor Services

Commuter Rail ASAP.

Strfeetcars in the core and historic districts.

Water Taxi and Riverwalk extensions, connections.

Rebuilding of South Jacksonville Station and Yukon/NAS station.

Hope this helps.

OCKLAWAHA

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I don't mean to be rude, and such, but what are you smoking?

 

[Ocklawaha]

I don't mean to be rude, and such, but what are you smoking?

Current plan (on ice)

Not smoking my friend, (though when I do it's King Edward or Swisher Sweets - Made in Jacksonville) and I'll even confess to being an old hippie.

Here's the inside: I run the jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com blog online. I am a retired railroad consultant to the FCN de COLOMBIA, Pacifico Railway.

I now consult PRO-BONO for JTA. I'm on the JTA committees for Commuter Rail, Streetcar and will likely chair or co-chair the new AMTRAK government/private planning agency. Meeting with the Mr. Blaylock of the JTA, Mr. Clem, Mr. Miller, Mr. Boyle, Mr. Arrington and a good deal of the Amtrak brass hats gives me a long range preview that most don't have.

The Mann/Davis plan, catching fire!

What we need is more of a cheering section, so far the NARP, United Rail, NRSH, R&LHS, NMRA, Sierra Club, NOW, JEDC, Jacksonville MPO, DVI have been over the top with support. We will probably take down the convention exhibit floor space and reconstruct the depot, and see the trains start to return within 5 years.

OCKLAWAHA

 

[cpamtfan]

Why do they need two platforms? There isn't really a need for two platforms for the number of trains they have (even with the Sunset and Palm).

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[Ocklawaha]

Why do they need two platforms? There isn't really a need for two platforms for the number of trains they have (even with the Sunset and Palm).
cpamtfan-Peter

Peter, true with what we now have even IF the Sunset comes back (it won't, at least as the Sunset we all remember), how long will it take Amtrak to realize that folding the "Sunset=GULF WIND" cars into a NYC/Orlando-Tampa/Daytona Beach-Miami train will not only save them money, it will offer more destinations to the Gulf Winds schedule. Also some talk about another extension of the Palmetto back to JAX.

If a terminal has one track occupied by an off duty train set, you'll still need 2 tracks to split a train. So with a very little increase in trains, we will need at least 3 tracks and 2 platforms.

The reality is that Jacksonville is pushing commuter rail, Light Rail, Streetcars and BRT - Bus Rapid Transit, and may even restart the Monorail expansions to the Stadium, San Marco and Riverside.

In the 1980's the Federal Study on needed Transportation Centers, suggested that Jacksonville needs a 12 track terminal. We have design's for both a two platform 3 track interm station as well as a full 9-12 track Terminal with full servicing facilities. In fact one of our former coach yards is still intact and still full of dwarf signals.

Hope this helps

OCKLAWAHA

 

[bretton88]

The Mann/Davis plan, catching fire!

What we need is more of a cheering section, so far the NARP, United Rail, NRSH, R&LHS, NMRA, Sierra Club, NOW, JEDC, Jacksonville MPO, DVI have been over the top with support. We will probably take down the convention exhibit floor space and reconstruct the depot, and see the trains start to return within 5 years.

OCKLAWAHA

This plan, does it demolish any of the existing terminal building? I see parkland in the plan where there is a building now. I would hate to see that happen to a historic building. :unsure:

 

[Ocklawaha]

This plan, does it demolish any of the existing terminal building? I see parkland in the plan where there is a building now. I would hate to see that happen to a historic building. :unsure:

It will restore the pedestrian subway and roughly the old track pattern 18 through 26, The difference being the FEC Freight leads will be on the far south edge along McCoys Creek. McCoys creek is being "restored" into a lenial City Park - Greenway, from way out in the old Seaboard Lackawanna Shop Complex all the way to the St. Johns River. There is even talk about relocating the Times-Union newspaper building which sits atop a boxed in creek, allowing for daylighting the entire creek and greenway.

Anyone have a chair or two?

As you can see from the renderings, NOT AN INCH of any of the original railroad buildings will be touched. The portion you are asking about is the surviving section of the original 1890's station. Since it is just a wall and a couple of towers, we are looking at the middle of it as some sort of courtyard, with a fountain, perhaps busts of the great railroaders of Jacksonville, H. Plant, H. Flagler, Smith, Yulee etc... Something like a super cool museum-mall-fountain-retail-food court all in one.

OCKLAWAHA

 

[Ryan]

Many thanks to MrFSS for imposing a sane and readable font on the above.

Ocklawaha, do you have any comment on the above discussed problems with connecting your nice new transportation center with the railroads that you would hope to use it? It sounds like getting trains into and out of your station is going to be a major inconvenience.

 

[Ocklawaha]

Many thanks to MrFSS for imposing a sane and readable font on the above.
Ocklawaha, do you have any comment on the above discussed problems with connecting your nice new transportation center with the railroads that you would hope to use it? It sounds like getting trains into and out of your station is going to be a major inconvenience.

FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS is my color and font choices: Do the math, grew up along the ATLANTIC COAST LINE and I'm about half blind, plus I just dig the colors man! LOL! It's my trademark in ALL forums.

I can comment on the access, In my opinion it is a NON-FACTOR. Train schedules were quite a few hours faster in 1945-55 and they faced the same back in movement, not only in Jacksonville but in Savannah, Chattanooga, New Orleans, Raleigh, Tampa, in fact they still back in to Tampa and New Orleans.

People need to consider Jacksonville as largest city in land area in the lower 48 states, largest in population (By FAR) of any Florida City, 3Rd largest City on the East Coast of the USA. So we are not a way station for the through trains. Rebuilt properly, trains for New Orleans, Orlando, Savannah, and Valdosta would back in. Trains from the Florida East Coast would run through the station.

The entire backin movement is within a few hundred feet of the photo of the Champion Arriving (backing in). Maybe a mile maximum.

The beauty of the Jacksonville back-in is that every route wyes just west of the expressway. So the Gulf Wind (your Sunset) will have the ability to run straight in, and be broken up for different routes south. The FEC cars will go straight out, the "A" and "S" lines will run the wye and be put in a New York-Miami/Tampa train. The process off of the "S" or "A" or FEC will be just a reverse.

We expect to capture some of those terminating and originating trains, certainly if the "AMTRAK FLORIDA 5 TRAIN PLAN" springs to life, we'll be the heartbeat of Florida. This is not local boosterism, every carload, passenger or freight in the ENTIRE STATE OF FLORIDA, either rolls past the empty terminal today or within a mile of it through the wyes.

Part of the plan includes rebuilding the SE leg of the old ACL or CSX "A" line. We want a full terminal with able to cater the trains, fuel, water, switch, do rolling repairs etc...

As part of our commuter rail and port plans; See a blueprint for Jacksonville in: http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/20...nted.html#links

Add to this mix the new "S" line to the northside of the City, plus commuter rail, and we'll have one lively station again.

OCKLAWAHA

 

[MrFSS]

FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS is my color and font choices: Do the math, grew up along the ATLANTIC COAST LINE and I'm about half blind, plus I just dig the colors man! LOL! It's my trademark in ALL forums.

Please stop using the large font and colors. It is bothering other forum members.

Thank You.

 

[Ryan]

Again, many thanks to the mods.

every carload, passenger or freight in the ENTIRE STATE OF FLORIDA, either rolls past the empty terminal today or within a mile of it through the wyes.

I'm sure that CSX may have an issue with you fouling their yard with all of the passenger trains doing this backup move all day long - they'll never get any freight moved!

One would think since this is part of an overall strategy to move trains back to JUS that they would be looking at what it takes to make this happen. IIRC ACL trains used this station back in the day, and they managed to do it then...

After having worked with several of the so called planners I am unfortunately not very impressed by their knowledge of the context within which they do the planning. So I do not trust that they have looked into the issue until they explicitly say they have. And in this case there is not even a mention of the issue anywhere.

Take out a track map around JAX of current in service and past out of service at present, tracks and convince yourself how they did it. It was always a backup move to/from the S and the A line going south, at least in the recent past (like past 40 or 50 years). What is worse now is that the backup will have to be across the neck of a very busy yard and then part way up the yard. An analogous situation in Richmond VA would be if one had to back up through half of Acca Yard to get to Richmond station, and then departing go through the yard again.

Of course anything can be done with enough money. For example an abandoned FEC right of way that connects St. Augustine on the FEC to Palatka on CSX could perhaps be re-commissioned if it is still around unencroached thus allowing trains running through JAX Union Station over FEC to St. Augustine and then swing back over to the CSX A line joining it at Palatka. I just don't see any evidence that they realize the situation enough to even start thinking about what needs to be done

Again sir, your knowledge is impeccable.

 

[Ocklawaha]

Again, many thanks to the mods.
Again sir, your knowledge is impeccable.

No color? No humor? My railroad is better then your railroad?

A question was asked and attempts were being made to answer it. As I'm right in the middle of all of these plans, I thought you might enjoy a look into what is coming down the track. Obviously someone feels threatened, but I wouldn't rush out and buy stock in the Jacksonville, St. Augustine and Halifax River Railroad and that East Palatka Extension. Between Commuter Rail and Amtrak plans, the old station could be back up to 30+ trains daily in a few years, those passengers will be distributed around downtown by our Monorail, JTA buses, and a new streetcar system. The CSX wye's in the terminal throat won't matter a bit as they are to be reconfigured. All that traffic in and out of that busy West Jax Yard will just have to wait on Amtrak... Ditto for the Moncrief Yard and even Export Yard. Simpson Yard, Springfield, Bush, Baldwin, and Bowden are safely back from the core, but FEC and NS are into run-thru's. I'm available through my blog or on metrojacksonville.com .

Forgive me for soiling the welcome mat, that really wasn't my intent. Next time your with the Florida Secretary of Transportation let me know and I'll buy the next round (She is from Jacksonville you know).

OCKLAWAHA

 

[jphjaxfl]

Interesting, I live in Jacksonville and I have seen the plans that are mentioned, but that is all they are is plans. There has been no mention how the plans will be funded. Florida had a high speed rail plan that was approved by voters, but the same voters reversed the plan when they found what the cost would be. The stimilus funds will go to the states that have serious plans that are shovel ready like the California HSR plan. I think Florida will be quite a ways down the list. I don't expect to see these plans becoming reality in the next fiver years.

 

[VentureForth]

OCKLAWAHA,

You remind me of a fella I met in Commerce, TX on a revival of the old Cotton Belt - a man by the name of Dan Monagham. This is very interesting news, and I will hope and hope that it will come to pass in my lifetime (I'm 37). I look forward to the day that my wife won't cringe when I say I'd rather take the train. Maybe some day she'll join me...

Thanks for the information. I'll have to drive down to Jax and visit the old passenger depot at the Convention Center.

Are trains going to have to back in to continue to Daytona/Orlando? How are the Silvers going to get through that station? They can't bypass Palatka... They'd never stand for it with the money they put into their little depot. I'll reread your info - you probably mentioned it. Lots of information to digest...

 

[Amtrak Alan]

What is meant by "AMTRAK FLORIDA 5 TRAIN PLAN"?

Thanks

OCKLAWAHA,
You remind me of a fella I met in Commerce, TX on a revival of the old Cotton Belt - a man by the name of Dan Monagham. This is very interesting news, and I will hope and hope that it will come to pass in my lifetime (I'm 37). I look forward to the day that my wife won't cringe when I say I'd rather take the train. Maybe some day she'll join me...

Thanks for the information. I'll have to drive down to Jax and visit the old passenger depot at the Convention Center.

Are trains going to have to back in to continue to Daytona/Orlando? How are the Silvers going to get through that station? They can't bypass Palatka... They'd never stand for it with the money they put into their little depot. I'll reread your info - you probably mentioned it. Lots of information to digest...

 

[VentureForth]

OCKLAWAHA,
You remind me of a fella I met in Commerce, TX on a revival of the old Cotton Belt - a man by the name of Dan Monagham. This is very interesting news, and I will hope and hope that it will come to pass in my lifetime (I'm 37). I look forward to the day that my wife won't cringe when I say I'd rather take the train. Maybe some day she'll join me...

Thanks for the information. I'll have to drive down to Jax and visit the old passenger depot at the Convention Center.

Are trains going to have to back in to continue to Daytona/Orlando? How are the Silvers going to get through that station? They can't bypass Palatka... They'd never stand for it with the money they put into their little depot. I'll reread your info - you probably mentioned it. Lots of information to digest...

What is meant by "AMTRAK FLORIDA 5 TRAIN PLAN"?

Thanks

I think that stands for the five trains that will ultimately pass through Jacksonville Union Station - The Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Palmetto, Sunset Limited and Something Else.

OR

It's five modes of transit based out of JAX - Streetcar, Long Distance Train, Commuter Train, Skyway, and Bus.

 

[VentureForth]

Here's a Bing Map Bird's Eye View of roughly that same shot.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Right now the people in Jacksonville don't even give decent support to the Jacksonville Transit Authority Bus Transportation. In early May, there were some route consolidations due to low ridership. A person who is in his 90s and has lived in Jacksonville all his life told me people in Jacksonville are too tied to their automobiles and it would take gas to be $10 per gallon to make that change. Without a good public transportation system feeding into Amtrak or HSR rail, the type of systems mentioned will not be successful.

 

[Ocklawaha]

Right now the people in Jacksonville don't even give decent support to the Jacksonville Transit Authority Bus Transportation. In early May, there were some route consolidations due to low ridership. A person who is in his 90s and has lived in Jacksonville all his life told me people in Jacksonville are too tied to their automobiles and it would take gas to be $10 per gallon to make that change. Without a good public transportation system feeding into Amtrak or HSR rail, the type of systems mentioned will not be successful.

Another attempt?

The "so called" 5-Train plan is a plan that Amtrak rolled out in the JTA commuter rail meeting around November 08, that calls for 5 intra-state trains each way daily between each of the major Florida City pairs. For Jacksonville this equals 20-30 or 40 new trains daily, depending on routes how many routes they use. They gave us a fairly deep look into the finances and how they believe they will break even or make money on these routes.

The HSR plan was voted down after being voted into the constitution, due to legal clowning by the Jeb Bush administration. If that same plan had stood for "High Speed ROAD", we'd probably already have it half built. This was pure big oil -vs- public transporation politics at it's best. Boy Bush, not unlike Jacksonville's mayor Peyton, never saw a road he didn't like. Both of them still believe that freeways are "FREE".

Lastly the ridership on JTA has skyrocketed since the gas increases of last summer/fall, soaring past all other Florida transit systems but Ft. Lauderdale, and Miami, ours being 98% bus and theirs being multi-modal.

Yes, plans are just plans, but in the current world, Cities can't expand downtown development without XX amount of transit, XX amount of Carbon Credits, green space, access, parking, etc... With the new Berkman Tower going up, and the new courthouse complex, the stage is set for a new Convention Center on the former Court House (riverfront) site. All of this without mention of some 3-4 more towers that are planned. Frankly the City MUST move and the Skyway, Streetcar and Commuter Rail are about the only options after they finally figured out the proposed BRT system would cost us more then $1 Billion Dollars for 26 miles of new roads and a handful of buses.

OCKLAWAHA

 

[jis]

A question was asked and attempts were being made to answer it. As I'm right in the middle of all of these plans, I thought you might enjoy a look into what is coming down the track. Obviously someone feels threatened, but I wouldn't rush out and buy stock in the Jacksonville, St. Augustine and Halifax River Railroad and that East Palatka Extension. Between Commuter Rail and Amtrak plans, the old station could be back up to 30+ trains daily in a few years, those passengers will be distributed around downtown by our Monorail, JTA buses, and a new streetcar system. The CSX wye's in the terminal throat won't matter a bit as they are to be reconfigured. All that traffic in and out of that busy West Jax Yard will just have to wait on Amtrak... Ditto for the Moncrief Yard and even Export Yard. Simpson Yard, Springfield, Bush, Baldwin, and Bowden are safely back from the core, but FEC and NS are into run-thru's. I'm available through my blog or on metrojacksonville.com .

That is indeed the information I was looking for. If they do have a plan to address the issue and they have the money to actually enact the plan, more power to them. My skepticism arises from having lived through many a grand plan which is built on fantasy with no funding. I sincerely hope that it is different in this case. Planners and even Secretaries of State have made claims in the past that have not borne out. I hope again that this case is going to be different.

 

[VentureForth]

Looks like Florida is getting some sort of funding from State Parks. Fees recently went up from $3 per car to $5, and they are about to go up again to $6. And if you're a season pass holder, they will charge $2 per person in your car.

Why can't states budget away for a rainy year???

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Looks like Florida is getting some sort of funding from State Parks. Fees recently went up from $3 per car to $5, and they are about to go up again to $6. And if you're a season pass holder, they will charge $2 per person in your car.
Why can't states budget away for a rainy year???

Because we live in a democracy.

 

[George Harris]

Interesting, I live in Jacksonville and I have seen the plans that are mentioned, but that is all they are is plans. There has been no mention how the plans will be funded. Florida had a high speed rail plan that was approved by voters, but the same voters reversed the plan when they found what the cost would be. The stimilus funds will go to the states that have serious plans that are shovel ready like the California HSR plan. I think Florida will be quite a ways down the list. I don't expect to see these plans becoming reality in the next fiver years.

The FOX plan got hijacked by Disney and Lakeland politicians to the point that it really did little good for anybody else. I would love to see a true high speed train system in Florida, and the terrain is made to order for one, but the death of that last "plan" was killing of a fairly useless monster.