Keeping the toilets clean on longer trips

[jimhudson]

Every time I read a thread about train restrooms, it is always stated that it's the attendant's job. Is it? I mean, is this really in their job description? I have seen only two times where an attendant has even so much as entered the bathroom. Once was when the toilet was overflowing. That was about 20 years ago. The 2nd time was last weekend. Makes me wonder.

Betty: Honestly don't know whats in the job description for SCAs, just the generally accepted/believed basic functions of the job we all expect while riding LD trains.

My experience is that the good and outstanding attendants do keep the restrooms clean and well stocked, even such small courtesies as placing air spray in the bathrooms. (probably out of their own pocket no doubt!) The biggest problems are the pigs, er people that must really be fun to live with that make even sleeping car restrooms become pig stys let alone the disasters that we encounter in most coach bathrooms. Great to meet you in St. Louis, really enjoy your posts and persdpective on things, you give we male train buffs a little class! :wub: Jim

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

On the paper towel issue the horizon cars have blow dryers but not the Dyson kind.

I can see mechanical hand dryers fast becoming an ongoing maintenance issue and if one goes out en route with no paper towel backup, that will really be a mess.

 

[longrun]

I just recently traveled the Cascade, EB, LSL and Maple Leaf.

Only the Maple Leaf had clean washrooms.

You don't want to know about the EB, and there were no shortage of attendants.

I have written Amtrak a couple of times concerning washroom cleanliness and get back the standard reply ...

"we care about our customers...", "we try..." blah blah blah.

Its inexcusable and causes me to rethink Amtrak every time I travel.

 

[FriskyFL]

Adult diapers are always an option.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

On the paper towel issue the horizon cars have blow dryers but not the Dyson kind.

You are correct on that, but those dryers do not really get your hands dry.

They do but you have to press it 3-4 times just like in a shopping store.

 

[leemell]

I ride the western LDs in roomettes quite a lot and have very seldom encountered a restroom in the sleepers that is an "absolute mess." So "always" is more than a bit of hyperbole. It is part of the SCAs job responsibilty to police up the restrooms. Of course the ratio of passenger to restroom is a LOT lower in the sleepers, so they get don't get as much use, too.

Well, you might not have ever come across a restroom in a LD coach that was an "absolute mess", but I think that claim of yours is more fantasy than fact.

I just returned from two and a half weeks on the SL, Crescent, Cardinal, EB, and the SC. At no time were any of the toilets that me or my wife used an "absolute mess." That is certainly not a "fantasy". We used the sleeper toilets and the coach toilets. That was on seven different LD trains. Not spotless but quite usable.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

What can causes them to malfunction besides running out of water is when people flush paper towels down them and clog them up.

 

[Everydaymatters]

On the paper towel issue the horizon cars have blow dryers but not the Dyson kind.

You are correct on that, but those dryers do not really get your hands dry. But it was a step in the right direction. The controls for the faucet in the horizon cars are idiotic. You have to push up on the bottom of the faucet to get water to come out, and then it sprays all over.

The faucet controls on the bottom are gross. You have to push up on the bottom to get the water to come out....after many others have also pushed on the bottom to get the water to come out. At least with the regular faucet, you could grab a paper towel to turn them on and off.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Betty: Honestly don't know whats in the job description for SCAs, just the generally accepted/believed basic functions of the job we all expect while riding LD trains.

My experience is that the good and outstanding attendants do keep the restrooms clean and well stocked, even such small courtesies as placing air spray in the bathrooms. (probably out of their own pocket no doubt!) The biggest problems are the pigs, er people that must really be fun to live with that make even sleeping car restrooms become pig stys let alone the disasters that we encounter in most coach bathrooms. Great to meet you in St. Louis, really enjoy your posts and persdpective on things, you give we male train buffs a little class! :wub: Jim

Thanks, Jim! It was nice meeting you as well. I've found you male train buffs have always been helpful to the women at the gatherings. Most of us are just passengers and don't know anything about how the trains work. We just like to take trains to wherever we're going.

 

[Amtrak conductor]

On the long haul trains it is each train attendant or TA's responsibility (and in their job description) that they are required to clean the restrooms in the car they are in charge of. In the sleepers it is the sleeper attendants or SA's job. This is required to be done every half hour. If they are not clean or the TA or SA tells you to clean them yourself call the conductor and let them know. The conductor is the onboard manager for all train staff. Please remember that how you talk to the attendants and the conductors will make for a better case if you are nice and pleasant. For those bathrooms on the commuter trains I am afraid you are out of luck. Those do not get staffed with attendants to clean and are done very minimal until they have gone to the yard for servicing at night. As for the smell I am with you it is not pleasant some times but it is not a possibility to drain the tanks during the day and most of the fleet of trains are 30 to 40 years old and just plain smell. Hopefully the voters will make it known to their legislators that investing in new equipment would be a smart use of our resources and better use of our natural resources!

 

[gregoryla]

Having just returned home after an extra-long (ie, delayed) trip on Empire Builder 8, I can testify that the sleeper common restrooms were pretty funky by the last day. One thing that would help is if a toilet brush was placed in each bathroom. Each passenger would hopefully utilize it to clean up after themselves, but failing that, at least the next passenger or the attendant could use it.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Do you suppose it would help if Amtrak made up signs to be placed in all bathrooms; such as "Please help keep this restroom clean"; "Please clean up after yourself".

What do kindergarden teachers tell their students about personal cleanliness? Whatever it is just might work if a sign was made and placed in all restrooms.

 

[Eric S]

Do you suppose it would help if Amtrak made up signs to be placed in all bathrooms; such as "Please help keep this restroom clean"; "Please clean up after yourself".

What do kindergarden teachers tell their students about personal cleanliness? Whatever it is just might work if a sign was made and placed in all restrooms.

I seem to recall signs similar to that in many Amtrak restrooms. Something like "It is not possible to clean after each use. Please be considerate of other passengers."

 

[highballing]

Just put in a bidet and a decent hand dryer. It would solve allot of problems.

 

[Larry H.]

I have taken a number of long distance trips in recent years. Most of the time a problem with a toilet has been eventually cleaned up by the sleeping car attendant. However a friend of mine just recently rode the City of New Orleans in a Roomette and in the middle of the night she had to use the rest room. The first one she tried to enter someone had managed to go on the floor, and not liquids. She immediately told the attendant who was in her room, when she told her the bathroom needed to be cleaned up before someone stepped in it the attendant told her that she had no intention of cleaning it up, it wasn't her job and wouldn't be cleaned up till New Orleans. I have had this person my self on a few shorter trips and while she is somewhat friendly, I have noticed that she becomes out of sight for most of the trip once it gets underway. I don't think my friend reported her, but it sounds like she should have.

 

[Larry H.]

Do you suppose it would help if Amtrak made up signs to be placed in all bathrooms; such as "Please help keep this restroom clean"; "Please clean up after yourself".

What do kindergarden teachers tell their students about personal cleanliness? Whatever it is just might work if a sign was made and placed in all restrooms.

They already have that sign in most bathrooms. I just took the local to chicago a few weeks ago and the sign was in the bathroom which I have seen on other trips as well.

 

[Larry H.]

In sleeping cars, the bathrooms are usually ok. To be fair to a coach attendant, there are 70 plus passengers on each coach on a superliner coach with 4 or 5 bathrooms, and 60 plus on Amfleet 2 coaches with 2 restrooms. I believe now that on LD trains, Amtrak has coach attendants working more than one car. So what would seem relatively easy is now a bit more difficult.

I think it was inappropriate for the attendant to threaten to close the toilets. It was appropriate to ask the passengers to not leave a mess on the floor. There is a place for paper towels, so this is kind of unnecessary. Also, the advice about using water to augment the vacuum system was appropriate. Most people would not know this, but they would appreciate the benefits of everybody doing this.

Additionally, the vacuum toilets do not work that well. On superliners they fail at high altitudes. And they fail in cold temperatures on the Amfleet IIs and on Horizons. I am assuming that all Amtrak equipment has similar toilet systems. Honestly, the toilets and bathrooms are a weak link in amtrak service. They were just not designed well. If there was a working system that alleviated this problem, Amtrak should adopt it in future equipment orders.

One thing that would eliminated the need for paper towels is a decent air dryer, like the ones that you insert your hands into at Union station in Chicago. Those do the job. Or the Xclerator ones that blow strong air out and really dry your hands. Over time, these would cut cost because there is no need to restock the paper towels. I don't know about their maintenance issues.

This has come up often, the sleepers were not properly refitted with the correct amount of vacuum pumps when they were refurbished, at least I have been told that by numerous attendants and I believe here as well. God knows amtrak has had thousands of complaints about this issue which should have been priority #1 from the get go. So far its been about 10 years and they still have to fix it and it sounds from these comments like its getting worse not better. Another example of having the only game in town, especially when the government tries to run it.

 

[oldtimer]

In sleeping cars, the bathrooms are usually ok. To be fair to a coach attendant, there are 70 plus passengers on each coach on a superliner coach with 4 or 5 bathrooms, and 60 plus on Amfleet 2 coaches with 2 restrooms. I believe now that on LD trains, Amtrak has coach attendants working more than one car. So what would seem relatively easy is now a bit more difficult.

I think it was inappropriate for the attendant to threaten to close the toilets. It was appropriate to ask the passengers to not leave a mess on the floor. There is a place for paper towels, so this is kind of unnecessary. Also, the advice about using water to augment the vacuum system was appropriate. Most people would not know this, but they would appreciate the benefits of everybody doing this.

Additionally, the vacuum toilets do not work that well. On superliners they fail at high altitudes. And they fail in cold temperatures on the Amfleet IIs and on Horizons. I am assuming that all Amtrak equipment has similar toilet systems. Honestly, the toilets and bathrooms are a weak link in amtrak service. They were just not designed well. If there was a working system that alleviated this problem, Amtrak should adopt it in future equipment orders.

One thing that would eliminated the need for paper towels is a decent air dryer, like the ones that you insert your hands into at Union station in Chicago. Those do the job. Or the Xclerator ones that blow strong air out and really dry your hands. Over time, these would cut cost because there is no need to restock the paper towels. I don't know about their maintenance issues.

This has come up often, the sleepers were not properly refitted with the correct amount of vacuum pumps when they were refurbished, at least I have been told that by numerous attendants and I believe here as well. God knows amtrak has had thousands of complaints about this issue which should have been priority #1 from the get go. So far its been about 10 years and they still have to fix it and it sounds from these comments like its getting worse not better. Another example of having the only game in town, especially when the government tries to run it.

This can relate back to a previous thread on Superliner toilet failure. I worked on Superliner cars for 25+ years and can tell you that 95% of toilet failures are passenger inflicted.

Yes, the system is vacuum operated just like many aircraft. (In a former life I also was an FAA certified airframe and powerplant mechanic and also worked with these systems.) In an aircraft the waste holding tank is always below the level of the toilet bowel. This is not true in a Superliner. The Superliner holding tank is in the equipment room above the "A" end truck. Thus the waste from the lower level has to be sucked up to the tank and this requires very strong vacuum pumps. There is also 100+ feet of copper piping in a Superliner coach and much more in a sleeper. This piping has many 90 degree bends, this complicate the movement of waste.

Now to the cause of failures, the system can take only human waste and the Amtrak supplied toilet paper. Most people doe not understand this and any other material that may be flushable in your home is NOT FLUSHABLE on a Superliner. Some of these products are able to partially block the piping and not allow the full system vacuum to be distributed to all toilets and it also causes the 4 to 7.5 HP pump motor to overhead and trip the circuit breaker. This is why sometimes the resetting of the breaker will allow the system to work.

Some sanitary products also cause obstructions in the actual valve in an individual toilet and if the system loses its vacuum integrity its operation will be compromised. This is especially true at higher altitude and in extremely hot temperatures because the air is less dense and pumps have to work much harder to reach the required vacuum levels. Products that contain any type of plastic or any absorbent will definitely partially obstruct the piping. If this obstruction is in an individual toilet it can be locked off and others in that car can be used. If the obstruction reaches the system main line the whole car will fail. If a sanitary product that contains a string is disposed of it may or may not keep the individual valve open, it depends. If the valve is open to any extent it will let atmospheric air into the system and cause the pumps to fail especially under extreme temperature and high elevations and then the whole car's waste system is down. Another cause of obstructions are disposable diapers that are flushable at home but not on the train, they will cause failures of the system.

Amtrak does know about these problems and has made many changes to the system, too many to mention here. I went to Philadelphia and made a presentation to several Amtrak managers, complete with 8x10 glossies with circles and arrows. I was told afterward that I really know my _ _ _ _! (excrement)

Also for your information that was supplied by an attendant; some toilet systems have two vacuum pumps but only one operates at a time and the systems that have two pumps have smaller pumps that are not as efficient as the single pump system.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Terrific information, Oldtimer2. If you were in a position to change the system, what would you do? Is there a simple fix? Is there an inexpensive replacement for the present system?

 

[Rob_C]

Okay, so why are there not HUGE warnings about what not to put down the toilet plastered all over the bathrooms? And consistent and clear voice announcements throughout the train? If given the choice to keep a viable restroom available to them, I think most passengers would gladly use the trash receptacle for some of these items.

Rob

 

[AlanB]

Okay, so why are there not HUGE warnings about what not to put down the toilet plastered all over the bathrooms? And consistent and clear voice announcements throughout the train? If given the choice to keep a viable restroom available to them, I think most passengers would gladly use the trash receptacle for some of these items.

Rob

Alas, most people never listen to announcements; as evidenced by the number of people who routinely walk into the dining car and instead of waiting to be told where to sit, simply sit down where ever they like despite multiple announcements to wait to be seated. Heck, even most restaurants make you wait to be seated, so why people think the dining car is different is beyond me.

So it's unlikely that announcements about the toilets will do any good either.

 

[zephyr17]

Okay, so why are there not HUGE warnings about what not to put down the toilet plastered all over the bathrooms? And consistent and clear voice announcements throughout the train? If given the choice to keep a viable restroom available to them, I think most passengers would gladly use the trash receptacle for some of these items.

Rob

Unfortunately, even if almost everyone pays attention to the notices (which are there, BTW), it only takes one person to screw it up. There is always an idiot out there, which is why the system should be made as idiot-proof as possible.

 

[Lincoln]

Vacuum systems are only in Viewliners and Superliners. Amfleet 1's have chemical toilets, Amfleet 2 and Horizons have "plug" toilets. I do not remember what sort of restrooms are found on talgos or Acelas.

As someone who has worked in restaurants I can assure you that the problem of undirected self seating is not a problem unique to amtrak

 

[amtrakwolverine]

You will always have people who think the rules do not apply to them.