LA questions.

[Neil_M]

Went past the LA Amtrak maintenance depot on Saturday and seen some covered freight vehicles with Amtrak Express on the side, whats the idea of those then? Still in use? Out of service?

I also thought I saw some New Jersey Transit coaches in either the Amtrak or Metrolink depot, was I correct?

I also passed a northbound Surfliner on Saturday morning, somewhere south of Santa Barbara, wasn't the usual Surfliner set, but was formed of what looked like a P32 and a cabbage car with some of those horrible single deck straight sided coaches and one of the round bodied vehicles behind the loco.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

one of the surfliner trains uses single level equipment cause they don't have anymore surfliner cars.

 

[AlanB]

Went past the LA Amtrak maintenance depot on Saturday and seen some covered freight vehicles with Amtrak Express on the side, whats the idea of those then? Still in use? Out of service?

Yes, those cars are from when Amtrak got into the freight business, what was called Express Trak. That service was ended by past Amtrak President David Gunn and the cars went idle at that point. Some have been sold off I believe, but others languish in yards around the country.

I also thought I saw some New Jersey Transit coaches in either the Amtrak or Metrolink depot, was I correct?

Yes, IIRC Metrolink brought some of NJT's old coaches in an effort to expand it's service.

I also passed a northbound Surfliner on Saturday morning, somewhere south of Santa Barbara, wasn't the usual Surfliner set, but was formed of what looked like a P32 and a cabbage car with some of those horrible single deck straight sided coaches and one of the round bodied vehicles behind the loco.

And as KissAlive mentioned, one Surfliner run does not use Surfliner equipment because they don't have enough Surfliner equipment to cover all the runs.

 

[jis]

And as KissAlive mentioned, one Surfliner run does not use Surfliner equipment because they don't have enough Surfliner equipment to cover all the runs.

As compensation they do get the Superdome on it from time to time.

 

[Neil_M]

[
Yes, those cars are from when Amtrak got into the freight business, what was called Express Trak. That service was ended by past Amtrak President David Gunn and the cars went idle at that point. Some have been sold off I believe, but others languish in yards around the country.

Why not use them as baggage cars then if the existing baggage cars are so broken?

(Although quite how you break a steel box on 2 bogies is a hard thing to work out!) :blink:

 

[gswager]

There's no door to access from the trans dorm to the express car.

Maybe speed restriction on some routes.

I don't think that the express cars don't have MU cables that used to provide power, created by locomotive, to the passengers cars.

 

[Neil_M]

There's no door to access from the trans dorm to the express car.
Maybe speed restriction on some routes.

I don't think that the express cars don't have MU cables that used to provide power, created by locomotive, to the passengers cars.

The cable for the HEP would be easy to fit, the speed restriction might be an issue, although I assume the idea was to attach them to regular passenger trains?

As for the access to the rest of the train, my trip on the CS the other day didn't have that, the end sleeper had a high level gangway.

 

[sechs]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

 

[PaulM]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

OK, I'll bite. Why is it more work?

You got me to thinking that maybe that is why I couldn't find the conductor or AC when I needed them on a recent trip?

 

[sky12065]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

OK, I'll bite. Why is it more work?

You got me to thinking that maybe that is why I couldn't find the conductor or AC when I needed them on a recent trip?

Of all the times I've traveled on Amtrak, I've never needed to see a conductor. What reason is there for needing one? Not being critical... just being curious!

 

[AlanB]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

OK, I'll bite. Why is it more work?

You got me to thinking that maybe that is why I couldn't find the conductor or AC when I needed them on a recent trip?

I don't know that it's all that much more work, but it definately increases the amount of time spent in the stations. Normally if the station coming up has checked baggage, the AC heads for the baggage car prior to the trains arrival into the station. He/she then finds all the bags that need to be offloaded at the next stop and has them moved next to the door.

Once the train stops, they open the side door take in the new bags from the red cap or agent, and then hand out the departing bags. The AC can then close the door and sort the bags that just came on board into their desination piles.

If the AC can't access the baggage car while the train is in motion, then the train has to wait for him/her to walk from the nearest passenger car to the bag, open the door, climb into the car, take on the new bags, go find the departing bags, wait for the AC to sort the arriving bags, climb out of the car, close the door, and walk back to the nearest passenger car and reboard.

That adds considerably to the amount of time stopped at the station.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I also thought I saw some New Jersey Transit coaches in either the Amtrak or Metrolink depot, was I correct?

Yes, IIRC Metrolink brought some of NJT's old coaches in an effort to expand it's service.

I also passed a northbound Surfliner on Saturday morning, somewhere south of Santa Barbara, wasn't the usual Surfliner set, but was formed of what looked like a P32 and a cabbage car with some of those horrible single deck straight sided coaches and one of the round bodied vehicles behind the loco.

And as KissAlive mentioned, one Surfliner run does not use Surfliner equipment because they don't have enough Surfliner equipment to cover all the runs.

I saw the NJT coaches, and a cab car, on Sunday, 3-15-09, inbound to L.A., and got a pic of them when outbound on Monday. They were parked right next to the main by the Metrolink yard and shops. Riding Surfliner 784 with saxman66, my first reaction was "What the...?" Next day aboard Train 14 I was ready with the camera. Those NJT cars look suspiciously like Comets, and if they are, basing my estimate on experience with Horizons, Metrolink passengers are in for a rude shock.

The 799/798 Surfliner consist is a hodgepodge of Horizon (Comet commuter derivative) and Amfleet, often (not always) with an F40 cabbage. Power varies somewhat, but usually the P32. The consist gets the superdome not only from time to time, as jis pointed out, but also for most of the summer, as confirmed by our Gathering shop tour guide, L.A. Mechanical Dept. Superintendent David Cowan.

Here's a shot I took of northbound Surfliner 799, sans Amfleet, but with cabbage 90208, departing OXN (with snow on the SoCal mountains!) on 2-12-08:

Pretty Picture, Ugly Train

90208 has received a new coat of paint since the photo. Noticed it one morning at L.A., as the engineer was climbing down from the cab. "New paint job, huh?" I asked. The reply as he walked away: "Yeah, but it still rides the same."

EDIT: Shot of NJT equipment in Metrolink yard is included in the photo album which will accompany an upcoming trip report.

 

[PaulM]

Of all the times I've traveled on Amtrak, I've never needed to see a conductor. What reason is there for needing one? Not being critical... just being curious!

There was a beer party going on in the sleeping car. Rather than tell the SCA to shut them up, I just asked him how long did he think it would go on, hoping he would get the hint. He didn't, and I didn't see him again that night. The party leader, an older person, didn't like my request to take it to the lounge car, and in fact seemed to welcome my threat to get the conductor. I then went looking for the conductor, who had given the good night speech on the intercom about a half hour earlier. Ironically, He had said he would be spending the night in the diner and if anyone needed something or just wanted to talk, to come see him.

I made a couple of trips to the diner and lower level of the transition sleeper; but couldn't find him or the AC. On my way back the last time, I did see one of the participants, bottle in hand and an embarrassed look on his face, in another car; and it did quiet down.

In case your are still curious, roomettes are not big enough for a good party. So they were spread over several doors, open of course. FWIW, It has been my experience that if you call someone on boorish behavior, at least in reasonably civilized venues, regardless of their response, they usually disappear within a few minutes. In this case, it took about 15 minutes. I think of this whenever the topic of lounge lizards who take up 3 seats comes up. Fortunately, I have never had to test my theory in that scenario.

 

[AlanB]

Those NJT cars look suspiciously like Comets, and if they are, basing my estimate on experience with Horizons, Metrolink passengers are in for a rude shock.

Your eyes did not deceive you Patrick, they are indeed Comet's. NJT has unloaded a bunch of them with the arival of the new Mutli-Level cars.

 

[jackal]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

OK, I'll bite. Why is it more work?

You got me to thinking that maybe that is why I couldn't find the conductor or AC when I needed them on a recent trip?

Of all the times I've traveled on Amtrak, I've never needed to see a conductor. What reason is there for needing one? Not being critical... just being curious!

The conductor's primary job description is to ensure the safe movement of the train and the safety of its freight and passengers. Associated duties include receiving track occupation authority from train dispatchers and ensuring the train does not exceed that authority but also more technical duties such as assisting with air brake tests, hooking and unhooking cars, tying or releasing handbrakes, and throwing switches. They also retain overall control of the train, and an engineer cannot move a train without the permission or direction of a conductor. They are primarily a member of the train operating crew, and their passenger duties (collecting tickets and serving as the final head of on-board passenger services) are secondary to their operating duties.

Conductors go through extensive training on railroad operations and must memorize elements from many rulebooks such as the General Code of Operating Regulations (GCOR, used by most western U.S. railroads--sample from BNSF here), Air Brake and Train Handling Manual (ABTH--sample from BNSF here), hazardous materials rules (sample from BNSF here), safety manuals (sample), signal indications (sample), and both the system special instructions (also known as the employee timetable--sample here) and the division special instructions for any divisions they travel through (sample here).

GCOR defines a conductor as the "Employee in charge of train or yard movement."

See the Wikipedia description here for further information on the conductor's job description.

 

[sky12065]

And you can't imagine how much more work it is not to have access to the baggage car while rolling.

OK, I'll bite. Why is it more work?

You got me to thinking that maybe that is why I couldn't find the conductor or AC when I needed them on a recent trip?

Of all the times I've traveled on Amtrak, I've never needed to see a conductor. What reason is there for needing one? Not being critical... just being curious!

The conductor's primary job description is to ensure the safe movement of the train and the safety of its freight and passengers. Associated duties include receiving track occupation authority from train dispatchers and ensuring the train does not exceed that authority but also more technical duties such as assisting with air brake tests, hooking and unhooking cars, tying or releasing handbrakes, and throwing switches. They also retain overall control of the train, and an engineer cannot move a train without the permission or direction of a conductor. They are primarily a member of the train operating crew, and their passenger duties (collecting tickets and serving as the final head of on-board passenger services) are secondary to their operating duties.

Conductors go through extensive training on railroad operations and must memorize elements from many rulebooks such as the General Code of Operating Regulations (GCOR, used by most western U.S. railroads--sample from BNSF here), Air Brake and Train Handling Manual (ABTH--sample from BNSF here), hazardous materials rules (sample from BNSF here), safety manuals (sample), signal indications (sample), and both the system special instructions (also known as the employee timetable--sample here) and the division special instructions for any divisions they travel through (sample here).

GCOR defines a conductor as the "Employee in charge of train or yard movement."

See the Wikipedia description here for further information on the conductor's job description.

Thanks for the response, but I have to apologize to you because I didn't make my question clear making you misunderstand it!

What I was trying to ask was why does a passenger "personally" need a conductor as in "asks for one" and I was not asking what the job of a conductor was. That I already knew!

In about 30,000 miles on Amtrak I've never found a reason why I had to ask for a conductor and thought my needs were the job of the attendant, not the conductor. The only thing I can think of is that the attendant is not doing their job and their inaction was endangering myself or other passengers. And that I would think would be extremely rare!

 

[p&sr]

In about 30,000 miles on Amtrak I've never found a reason why I had to ask for a conductor and thought my needs were the job of the attendant, not the conductor.

Sometimes you just need to talk to the "guy in charge". Eg, if you have a problem with your ticketing.

Also, the Staff uses the Conductor for Authoritative Support. Once on the Surfliner headed out of San Diego at daybreak, an obnoxious drinker was refused beer in the Cafe because he'd already had enough to last all day (prior to boarding). After arguing with the Attendant, the Attendant said "let's call the Conductor". The Conductor arrived and heard the guy's story, then said "Unfortunately the Law requires me to support the decision of the Attendant, who is uniquely permitted under the State Liquor Laws to make such a call... which cannot be over-ruled".

So either settle down, or get thrown off the Train.

Only the Conductor can throw people off the Train... an authority I have seen used Many times, and always to good effect!

 

[sky12065]

In about 30,000 miles on Amtrak I've never found a reason why I had to ask for a conductor and thought my needs were the job of the attendant, not the conductor.

Sometimes you just need to talk to the "guy in charge". Eg, if you have a problem with your ticketing.

Also, the Staff uses the Conductor for Authoritative Support. Once on the Surfliner headed out of San Diego at daybreak, an obnoxious drinker was refused beer in the Cafe because he'd already had enough to last all day (prior to boarding). After arguing with the Attendant, the Attendant said "let's call the Conductor". The Conductor arrived and heard the guy's story, then said "Unfortunately the Law requires me to support the decision of the Attendant, who is uniquely permitted under the State Liquor Laws to make such a call... which cannot be over-ruled".

So either settle down, or get thrown off the Train.

Only the Conductor can throw people off the Train... an authority I have seen used Many times, and always to good effect!

You're ticketing problem example is an excellent reason that I hadn't thought of. Very good! But for the rest of your comments, it's not a request by the passenger for a conductor situation you're talking about. It's a request by staff. And even if the request were by the customer in this case, arguing the right to become an even drunker drunken fool is not a valid reason to ask for a conductor!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

In about 30,000 miles on Amtrak I've never found a reason why I had to ask for a conductor and thought my needs were the job of the attendant, not the conductor.

Sometimes you just need to talk to the "guy in charge". Eg, if you have a problem with your ticketing.

Also, the Staff uses the Conductor for Authoritative Support. Once on the Surfliner headed out of San Diego at daybreak, an obnoxious drinker was refused beer in the Cafe because he'd already had enough to last all day (prior to boarding). After arguing with the Attendant, the Attendant said "let's call the Conductor". The Conductor arrived and heard the guy's story, then said "Unfortunately the Law requires me to support the decision of the Attendant, who is uniquely permitted under the State Liquor Laws to make such a call... which cannot be over-ruled".

So either settle down, or get thrown off the Train.

Only the Conductor can throw people off the Train... an authority I have seen used Many times, and always to good effect!

You're ticketing problem example is an excellent reason that I hadn't thought of. Very good! But for the rest of your comments, it's not a request by the passenger for a conductor situation you're talking about. It's a request by staff. And even if the request were by the customer in this case, arguing the right to become an even drunker drunken fool is not a valid reason to ask for a conductor!

maybe its like this. the conductor is the bouncer of the train. the attendant is the bartender and he can't do nothing but call for the bouncer.

 

[sky12065]

In about 30,000 miles on Amtrak I've never found a reason why I had to ask for a conductor and thought my needs were the job of the attendant, not the conductor.

Sometimes you just need to talk to the "guy in charge". Eg, if you have a problem with your ticketing.

Also, the Staff uses the Conductor for Authoritative Support. Once on the Surfliner headed out of San Diego at daybreak, an obnoxious drinker was refused beer in the Cafe because he'd already had enough to last all day (prior to boarding). After arguing with the Attendant, the Attendant said "let's call the Conductor". The Conductor arrived and heard the guy's story, then said "Unfortunately the Law requires me to support the decision of the Attendant, who is uniquely permitted under the State Liquor Laws to make such a call... which cannot be over-ruled".

So either settle down, or get thrown off the Train.

Only the Conductor can throw people off the Train... an authority I have seen used Many times, and always to good effect!

You're ticketing problem example is an excellent reason that I hadn't thought of. Very good! But for the rest of your comments, it's not a request by the passenger for a conductor situation you're talking about. It's a request by staff. And even if the request were by the customer in this case, arguing the right to become an even drunker drunken fool is not a valid reason to ask for a conductor!

maybe its like this. the conductor is the bouncer of the train. the attendant is the bartender and he can't do nothing but call for the bouncer.

Now that's an explaination that can bounce around in my head for a while! :lol:

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Baggage car question.

Alan, you said piles? Google came up dry when I searched for the inside of the baggage car. Do they have anything in them or is it just space on the floor where they put your bags in piles based on where they are needed?

 

[printman2000]

Baggage car question.
Alan, you said piles? Google came up dry when I searched for the inside of the baggage car. Do they have anything in them or is it just space on the floor where they put your bags in piles based on where they are needed?

This is something I long wondered about. I figured there was some sort of shelving on the walls. But nope. It is just an open car. Walls, roof, and floor.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Baggage car question.
Alan, you said piles? Google came up dry when I searched for the inside of the baggage car. Do they have anything in them or is it just space on the floor where they put your bags in piles based on where they are needed?

This is something I long wondered about. I figured there was some sort of shelving on the walls. But nope. It is just an open car. Walls, roof, and floor.

I agree I am kind of suprised about that.

 

[MrFSS]

Baggage car question.
Alan, you said piles? Google came up dry when I searched for the inside of the baggage car. Do they have anything in them or is it just space on the floor where they put your bags in piles based on where they are needed?

This is something I long wondered about. I figured there was some sort of shelving on the walls. But nope. It is just an open car. Walls, roof, and floor.

I agree I am kind of suprised about that.

What's more surprising is sometimes they run with the door to the baggage car not completely closed. It can get really dirty in there.

is a video of one with the door open a 6-7 inches or so.

 

[p&sr]

What's more surprising is sometimes they run with the door to the baggage car not completely closed. It can get really dirty in there.

On my Feather River trip last September, they ran the Mountain section with baggage car doors completely open... and the Crew standing in the doorways to admire the view!