Lake Shore Limited discussion

[rs9]

On trainorders.com, an observer noted the Lake Shore Limited departing Chicago on Saturday, May 13 had the following odd consist:

Two P42 locomotives; Boston sleeper; Boston Amfleet cafe car; Boston Amfleet coach; Horizon coach (destination unclear); another Amfleet cafe car, presumably to NYP; NYP Amfleet coach; NYP diner, 2xNYP sleepers; and baggage car.

Anyone have any insights to add?

 

[fdaley]

On trainorders.com, an observer noted the Lake Shore Limited departing Chicago on Saturday, May 13 had the following odd consist:

Two P42 locomotives; Boston sleeper; Boston Amfleet cafe car; Boston Amfleet coach; Horizon coach (destination unclear); another Amfleet cafe car, presumably to NYP; NYP Amfleet coach; NYP diner, 2xNYP sleepers; and baggage car.

Anyone have any insights to add?

The Horizon coach and the second cafe are not things I've encountered in my recent sightings of 48/49. Their positioning in the consist suggests they were in revenue service (i.e., not deadheading). Were there really only two Amfleet coaches, one each for BOS and NYP?

When I saw the previous day's 48 at Rensselaer on Saturday (5/13), it had sleeper, cafe and two Amfleet coaches that continued on 448 to Boston, leaving two coaches, Viewliner diner, two sleepers and baggage for New York. Even two coaches for NYP seems pathetically short; it used to regularly run with four.

 

[joelkfla]

The Horizon coach and the second cafe are not things I've encountered in my recent sightings of 48/49. Their positioning in the consist suggests they were in revenue service (i.e., not deadheading). Were there really only two Amfleet coaches, one each for BOS and NYP?

When I saw the previous day's 48 at Rensselaer on Saturday (5/13), it had sleeper, cafe and two Amfleet coaches that continued on 448 to Boston, leaving two coaches, Viewliner diner, two sleepers and baggage for New York. Even two coaches for NYP seems pathetically short; it used to regularly run with four.

Caught 448 on the Springfield MA railcam. Although the platform canopy blocks most of the view, it did appear as though the Horizon was the 2nd of 2 coaches, and the interior lights appeared to be on (it arrived 2 hours late, just after nightfall.)

 

[PVD]

The Horizon would certainly be the odd duck. Nothing I can think of out here that uses them. And they are not configured with LD seating. Perhaps an AM2 took ill and there were no subs available.

 

[rs9]

The Horizon would certainly be the odd duck. Nothing I can think of out here that uses them. And they are not configured with LD seating. Perhaps an AM2 took ill and there were no subs available.

While it's likely it was a forced substitution for an AM2 car, this feels rather ominous for Amtrak's current status. The LSL will soon be at its summer capacity of 5 coach cars (2 Boston, 3 NYP), so there are by definition 3 AM2 cars that are seemingly not in service - though I suppose they may have been shipped elsewhere in the system.

 

[PVD]

All the trains using AM-2 cycle through Sunnyside, Chicago only sees the Lake. It could have just been a bad order into Chicago, and the seats were needed going back East. If it persists for any length of time, then I'll worry.

 

[jis]

All the trains using AM-2 cycle through Sunnyside, Chicago only sees the Lake. It could have just been a bad order into Chicago, and the seats were needed going back East. If it persists for any length of time, then I'll worry.

Yup. It could just be a flat wheel out of spec that could not be fixed in time. It is a bit surprising though that they are down two Amfleet Coaches.

 

[PVD]

Maybe the second Am Cafe was a desperation sub for a coach as well, since there would only be one normally and it would go to Boston.

 

[JP1822]

I think Chicago put together substitutions the best they could…..There were some Horizons that were overhauled for low density seating (LD service) and appeared on the Three Rivers and even the Pennsylvanian when it was extended “all the way” to Chicago. Occasionally - during peak season when capacity was needed - they would add a Horizon low density coach to the Lake Shore Limited - typically the Boston section.

I remember being on the southbound Adirondack and passing the westbound Lake Shore at Schenectady and seeing the Horizon car in the Lake Shore’s consist. I’ve never done LD overnight coach travel (sleeper only), but the fluorescent lighting would not been ideal.

Overall all though, a pretty smart move back then when Amtrak needed quick LD coaches - to re-arrange the seating on the Horizons and make them low density as opposed to the traditional high density.

Boston though is notorious for not liking “foreign equipment” so if the Horizon was destined for Boston, I doubt Boston Maintenance Yard staff appreciated it. The second Amfleet was probably the best Amtrak could do in a pinch to create much needed seating. Hopefully it was half table seating and half business class seating,

There were Amfleet II coaches subbing for corridor service in the Midwest. But slowly I think they were returned back East as the Venture Cars began to be put in service, and Horizons were pressed into more efficient service. The LD trains are still not back to pre-COVID Amfleet II coach levels. As mentioned the NY section had 4 to 5 coaches as a standard on the Lake Shore. Ironically though, Amtrak had no problem finding Amfleet II coaches when restoring the Maple Leaf and Adirondack.

Hopefully the Lake Shore gets Amfleet II coaches restored - and more of them in the near future for peak summer season.

 

[jis]

Lake Shore will get a third NY Coach very soon. It will get some further enhancements a little further down the line.

 

[joelkfla]

Lake Shore will get a third NY Coach very soon. It will get some further enhancements a little further down the line.

So cryptic! It already has a diner, and it can't get a SSL -- what else could there be? Perhaps a dining upgrade?

 

[jis]

So cryptic! It already has a diner, and it can't get a SSL -- what else could there be? Perhaps a dining upgrade?

Wait and see. To some extent I am guessing.

 

[John Bredin]

So cryptic! It already has a diner, and it can't get a SSL -- what else could there be? Perhaps a dining upgrade?

Bag-dorm for the Boston section to free up some sleeper space? Cafe or cafe-business for the New York section? (Those are strictly guesses in the spirit of "what else could it be?" )

 

[Amtrak25]

Right now, 16 Amfleet-2 coaches (assuming Maple Leaf still has 5 each) compose all the coaches used on the two Canadian trains. Pre-pandemic, it was 10 of them. Amtrak needs to get more Horizon cars out of Beech Grove, and more Siemens coaches on their feet to cascade Chicago's current allottment of Amfleet-1 and Amfleet-2 coaches back east where they belong. Scrapping Talgo-6's and sending a couple of dozen Horizons to Seattle made the situation worse yet.

Be nice if Amtrak could get their hands on California's 12 (or is it 14) ComArrow coaches and 3 California-owned Horizon dinettes for use in Seattle. A few of those coaches are used only for axle counts. I don't think the 3 dinettes have turned a wheel since the pandemic started. Nobody talks about them.

So the 6 extra Amfleet-2 caoaches that go to Canada are the missing 4th NY Lake Shore coach and the 3rd Cardinal coach gone astray.

8 Horizon coaches were converted to Long Distance for Three Rivers service. After that train came off, they were converted and renumbered right back to the way they were. You'd never know now.

 

[IAlam]

So I was talking to some crew last week about the LSL having 2 VL1's on the NY section and they said the current rumor is that the LSL is preparing for a 3rd sleeper on the NY section and the VLII will get placed there.

I'm not sure why they'd put 2 VL1's back to back in anticipation of a 3rd sleeper, but that's the best information I could get from someone who works there.

 

[jis]

So I was talking to some crew last week about the LSL having 2 VL1's on the NY section and they said the current rumor is that the LSL is preparing for a 3rd sleeper on the NY section and the VLII will get placed there.

I'm not sure why they'd put 2 VL1's back to back in anticipation of a 3rd sleeper, but that's the best information I could get from someone who works there.

I don’t know why they shuffled the Sleepers but I have also heard that LSL will get a third Sleeper mid-June.

 

[lordsigma]

I’m aboard the Lake Shore Limited. A third New York coach was added for summer. Train has total of 5 coaches currently. Consist of my train is 2 P42, V2 Boston sleeper, lounge, 2 Boston coaches, 3 New York coaches, diner, 2 New York V1 sleepers, bagagge.

 

[blueman271]

Do sleeper passengers on 449 get lunch leaving Boston?

 

[Rasputin]

Do sleeper passengers on 449 get lunch leaving Boston?

That was the custom pre-pandemic and I assume it is still the case. Recent passengers should be able to confirm this (or refute it if it has changed.)

 

[Tlcooper93]

That was the custom pre-pandemic and I assume it is still the case. Recent passengers should be able to confirm this (or refute it if it has changed.)

Last July, I was given a free meal from the cafe car. I believe this to still be the case, but can confirm on July 8th.

 

[lordsigma]

Do sleeper passengers on 449 get lunch leaving Boston?

Pretty sure they still do - I know they still get a dinner heading east. Before when they had a Amfleet 1 club-dinette car for the cafe it was a free item in the cafe. Now that they have an Amfleet 2 lounge in the consist which has convection ovens and more refrigerated storage I believe you get the same flexible dining meals for that meal that you’ll get in the diner when the train combines and it’s essentially served in the same manner as the Crescent and Cardinal - they temporarily close the cafe to serve the sleeper passengers. Definitely report what you get though. I think switching to the Amfleet 2 lounge was ultimately a good decision. On my recent trip east I did sleeper to Albany and then coach Albany - Springfield. I noticed they still had a much better amount of stock left in the cafe after Albany than on my past trips when they had the Amfleet 1 club dinette at that point and it was a busy train with 5 coaches. They even still had the ham and turkey sandwiches left.

 

[fdaley]

Do sleeper passengers on 449 get lunch leaving Boston?

When we rode last summer and the summer before, we were given our choice of items from the cafe menu, which to me was actually better than the dreaded flex meals. We had to order immediately after departure from Boston, before they opened the cafe to coach passengers. But as lordsigma says, this may have changed with the return of a full lounge car.

On our last two trips on 448, flex dinners were delivered to our rooms.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

It looks like the Boston Section of the Lake Shore Limited is canceled this weekend and replaced with Buses until next Friday June 9th. There is no news or alerts published. Does anyone know the reason?

 

[lordsigma]

It looks like the Boston Section of the Lake Shore Limited is canceled this weekend and replaced with Buses until next Friday June 9th. There is no news or alerts published. Does anyone know the reason?

Annual CSX trackwork shuffle on the B&A. Typically do daytime track curfews M-Th which precludes 448/449 from operating - usually finishing early on Thursdays. Usually 448 runs Thursdays - Saturday, 449 Friday - Sunday during this period - other frequencies bussed. My best advise to anyone anytime booking in the May - June timeframe on 448/449 would be to travel on those days if they want to avoid bussing even way out as this is pretty much an annual affair. The actual dates vary but it always happens this time of year.

 

[IAlam]

That was the custom pre-pandemic and I assume it is still the case. Recent passengers should be able to confirm this (or refute it if it has changed.)

Source: Lake Shore Limited Train | Amtrak
Yes on the LSL page, it says 449 has lunch