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TransAtlantic

Service Attendant
Joined
May 7, 2006
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It's finally going to happen - no they're not restoring the Desert Wind, as such, but the train from LA to Vegas is tentatively scheduled to begin operation in July. Approval has been given by the UP, and because this is (for now) a "temporary" train, scheduled to run for only 2 years, they are exempt from the environmental restrictions that kept the Talgo service offline. Got this from Amtrak managment yesterday...

The theory (and this is being subsidized, if necessary, by the state of Nevada) is that if enough passenger revenue can be generated, the state can push the Federal government to either put pressure on the UP to upgrade their tracks, or to pay for it entirely, just to help alleviate some of the air traffic clogging the skies in Southern California. There will be one station at the old location (Palace Station?? can't remember the name - at the end of Fremont), and soon, another at the new, currently-in-development airport south of town. The only delay at this point is getting enough Amfleet equipment (sorry, Superliner fans, they're not using it) to LA...
 
TransAtlantic said:
It's finally going to happen - no they're not restoring the Desert Wind, as such, but the train from LA to Vegas is tentatively scheduled to begin operation in July. Approval has been given by the UP, and because this is (for now) a "temporary" train, scheduled to run for only 2 years, they are exempt from the environmental restrictions that kept the Talgo service offline. Got this from Amtrak managment yesterday...The theory (and this is being subsidized, if necessary, by the state of Nevada) is that if enough passenger revenue can be generated, the state can push the Federal government to either put pressure on the UP to upgrade their tracks, or to pay for it entirely, just to help alleviate some of the air traffic clogging the skies in Southern California. There will be one station at the old location (Palace Station?? can't remember the name - at the end of Fremont), and soon, another at the new, currently-in-development airport south of town. The only delay at this point is getting enough Amfleet equipment (sorry, Superliner fans, they're not using it) to LA...
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The old Amtrak Station in Las Vegas, NV is in Downtown Vegas, near Fremont St. behind the Plaza Hotel & Casino (f/k/a the Union Plaza Hotel). The tracks through Vegas basically paralell Interstate 15, so building a station on the south side of town or on the strip near the Excalabur or Luxor would not be that big a deal. All it would take is money.

Rick
 
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I'm curious about your source (inside?) because it's not showing up on Google news.

It's great news though. I personally think they should electrify it and run high speed so that door to door was faster than flying. I suppose they could use a gas turbine too, but that uses too much fuel for my liking.
 
TransAtlantic said:
...and because this is (for now) a "temporary" train, scheduled to run for only 2 years, they are exempt from the environmental restrictions that kept the Talgo service offline. Got this from Amtrak managment yesterday...
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There were no environmental restrictions that blocked the actual operation of Talgo or any other train into Las Vegas. The problem was that the capacity improvements required by the Union Pacific Railroad as a condition of Amtrak operation involved construction in areas found to be a habitat of the desert tortoise: a threatened species. If the Union Pacific permits Amtrak to operate to Las Vegas without the need for capacity improvements (double tracking or passing sidings), then the train could start tomorrow as long as funding is made available. But, if the improvements are ever required, the tortoise is still there and it would be back to square one.

Not to be a pessimist or doubter (even though I am), but this is not the sort of news that would quietly leak out from "Amtrak management" to a railfan. Amtrak, by law, cannot start this service unilaterally. They must have a partner to cover the losses. I would expect an agreement between Amtrak, the Union Pacific, and whoever the funding entity may be to a pretty big PR deal, not a railfan rumor. Until a press release or some other authoritative public announcement is made, I will not place any bets on this train coming to fruition anytime soon. I would be thrilled to be wrong.
 
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Sorry, perhaps I should clarify: I'm not a "railfan" as such, but rather, an employee of a certain railroad in the U.S. with years under my belt...

It hasn't been announced yet because they have to file various forms with the FRA to get all the proper certifications in order. You'll hear about this formally within 30 days...
 
I hope you're correct TransAtlantic. What would the schedule for service be like? Since it seems like you have access to inside Amtrak's management, do you have info on service east of New Orleans or other routes? Thanks.
 
Reread the original post. If true, the State of Nevada would cover Amtrak's loses.
 
That's correct, sechs, although projections from the state of NV indicate that the service might not even require a subsidy (!!!) though they are going to guarantee it funding as necessary; also, as to scheduling: it will only run 3 days/week (forgot about that bit), Fri-Sun., but there will apparently be MULTIPLE trains every day!
 
The tortoise issue was resolved back in 2002. (Amtrak had have a huge 3-year environmental study for the Mojave National Preserve and the preserve eventually gave them the green light.) Then Mineta pulled the plug on "new services" funding with the $100M DOT loan Amtrak received in Summer 2002.

Amtrak West also stated if 80% of the seats or more were sold out on every train, if would turn a profit. (Not unreasonable for a market like this one.)
 
The original post said that they are using Amfleets. Anyone care to take a guess at if they will use a cab car or a second P42 so they don't have to turn the train? That is going to be a very tight schedule if they are going to use one trainset to cover the service like the 799/798 surfliners.

-Firebert
 
AmtrakFan said:
PerRock said:
So I wonder if they are gonna use the old LV talgos or not.

peter
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NO they aren't, that set is currently in Cascade Service. My Guess is they will use Amfleet equipment.
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I seem to recall reading somewhere that the State of Washington purchased the "Las Vegas Talgo" a couple of years ago. In any event, the trainset has been repainted into standard Cascades colors.
 
gswager said:
Ummmmmm.... Turboliners? Unfortunately, air conditioners sucked.
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The state of New York is already accusing Amtrak of stealing them by moving them to Delaware. I doubt they would let them use them somewhere else. Couldn't the air conditioners just be replaced though? Seems like me to be much ado about nothing.

I'm sure Bombardier would love to sell some JetTrains, which are currently a failed investment for them (perhaps for good reason?).
 
Guest said:
gswager said:
Ummmmmm.... Turboliners? Unfortunately, air conditioners sucked.
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The state of New York is already accusing Amtrak of stealing them by moving them to Delaware. I doubt they would let them use them somewhere else. Couldn't the air conditioners just be replaced though? Seems like me to be much ado about nothing.
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It wasn't just the A/C that had problems, there were other issues too. And their fuel use far exceeded that of a P32 AC-DM, so they weren't cheap to operate.

Guest said:
I'm sure Bombardier would love to sell some JetTrains, which are currently a failed investment for them (perhaps for good reason?).
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Don't feel too bad for Bombardier regarding the JetTrain. The US helped to finanace that experiment, so the Bom didn't loose too much money on that deal. And who knows, if Amtrak ever gets some serious funding maybe they will buy some.
 
Unless they can find some way to make them at least as efficient as a diesel, I don't see anybody except Venezuela, Iran, or an oil sheikdom buying them in this age of expensive fuel. One would suppose that the turbine itself might be more dependable, offsetting part of the fuel premium, but maybe not even that, since unless you had some sort of incredible shock mounting, the centrifugal forces involved in hard g-force jolts that a train gets running on uneven track would cause huge forces on the bearings in the turbine. Think of a turbine as a very, very heavy gyro, running at exceedingly high speeds. When you push a gyro in one direction, it causes a strong force at 90 degrees to that force, exerted by the gyro itself. Also makes you wonder a little bit about stability going around high-speed turns. On the other hand, they obviously solved that for the Army's main battle tanks and APCs and Bradleys, so maybe by now it's not that much of a problem. And the turbine itself is way smaller than a diesel engine.
 
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TransAtlantic said:
Sorry, perhaps I should clarify: I'm not a "railfan" as such, but rather, an employee of a certain railroad in the U.S. with years under my belt...It hasn't been announced yet because they have to file various forms with the FRA to get all the proper certifications in order. You'll hear about this formally within 30 days...
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Well, 30 days have passed without any signs of Amtrak working on this project at all. In fact, at the NARP/RailPAC meeting yesterday, Kummant said that the service was possible if the casinos jumped in with some cash but that Amtrak had no definite plans to launch it on its own. What a shame.
 
PSurfliner, what else did Kummant speak about? Was the Sunset east of New Orleans topic discussed? Could you share? Thanks.
 
Starting this summer, I-15 is going to be down to one (yes ONE) lane in each direction, for construction that is anticipated to last 18 months...do you think Vegas wants to lose any more business than they have to?
 
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