Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement discussion (2022 - 2024Q1)

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Odd thought. Amtrak evidently has many out of service cars at MIA. What if it made a contract to ferry a few cars to Brightline's brand new maintenance facility at Orlando airport. BL certainly has the expert now how to do some of the items both roadworthy and passenger worthy. Amtrak parts shortages might make that not feasible. If possible, maybe one or 2 cars to west Palm beach?
 
Odd thought. Amtrak evidently has many out of service cars at MIA. What if it made a contract to ferry a few cars to Brightline's brand new maintenance facility at Orlando airport. BL certainly has the expert now how to do some of the items both roadworthy and passenger worthy. Amtrak parts shortages might make that not feasible. If possible, maybe one or 2 cars to west Palm beach?
Brightline contracts out its maintenance to Siemens. I doubt they have the expertise or want to develop such for doing work on random Amtrak equipment. So No. This is not going to happen.

BTW, the backlogged VL1 cars are actually stored mostly in Beech Grove IIRC.

BTW, one VL1 has been taken off the roster, one that was involved in the Cayce Silver Star collision. Of course the Amfleet II Dinette has been scrapped too.
 
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Brightline contracts out its maintenance to Siemens. I doubt they have the expertise or want to develop such for doing work on random Amtrak equipment. So No. This is not going to happen.

BTW, the backlogged VL1 cars are actually stored mostly in Beech Grove IIRC.

BTW, one VL1 has been taken off the roster, one that was involved in the Cayce Silver Star collision. Of course the Amfleet II Dinette has been scrapped too.
What happened to the VLIs stored in Hialeah? A few Amtrak employees informed me they would be there until Amtrak caught up on Superliner repairs/refreshes.
 
What happened to the VLIs stored in Hialeah? A few Amtrak employees informed me they would be there until Amtrak caught up on Superliner repairs/refreshes.
Yeah, some may be sitting in Hialeah too, but their work is queued after Superliner etc., because the work has to be done at Beech Grove not in Hialeah. There is no reason to hold up things at Hialeah because of Superliners. Hialeah does not do those.
 
Odd thought. Amtrak evidently has many out of service cars at MIA. What if it made a contract to ferry a few cars to Brightline's brand new maintenance facility at Orlando airport. BL certainly has the expert now how to do some of the items both roadworthy and passenger worthy. Amtrak parts shortages might make that not feasible. If possible, maybe one or 2 cars to west Palm beach?
Alstom is far more likely to work on superliners and viewliners than Siemens is. Alstom built surfliner cars and owns all the designs for superliner cars. They've overhauled california cars built by MK.
 
Alstom is far more likely to work on superliners and viewliners than Siemens is. Alstom built surfliner cars and owns all the designs for superliner cars. They've overhauled california cars built by MK.
The work needed to bring the backlogged VL1s out of Mothballs has to happen in Beech Grove. Amtrak has a perfectly well equipped facility in Florida at Hialeah and Sanford to do everyday repairs and 92 day inspections and such. They do so for the Viewliners, Amfleet II and Auto Train Superliners, and also the SunRail rolling stock at Sanford. But the work involved in de-mothballing apparently is more elaborate.

You are right about Alstom. They do have the knowledge to handle Superliners as well as Viewliners. The Viewliner Is through a circuitous route became their baby through M&A via MK residuals.
 
The work needed to bring the backlogged VL1s out of Mothballs has to happen in Beech Grove. Amtrak has a perfectly well equipped facility in Florida at Hialeah and Sanford to do everyday repairs and 92 day inspections and such. They do so for the Viewliners, Amfleet II and Auto Train Superliners, and also the SunRail rolling stock at Sanford. But the work involved in de-mothballing apparently is more elaborate.
If I remember the FRA regs right they need their entire brake system rebuilt, HEP cables replaced, new safety decals and more done.
 
Alstom is far more likely to work on superliners and viewliners than Siemens is. Alstom built surfliner cars and owns all the designs for superliner cars. They've overhauled california cars built by MK.
Does Alstom own the Superliner designs? I had thought that they were designed by an Amtrak contractor, with in house input, and then they were contracted out to Pullman Standard for production. Bombardier did buy PS plans for the Superliner II production.
 
Yes most of the cars stored were cars that came due for capital overhaul work during the financial lapse/Covid period. Amtrak saved money by parking the equipment and deferring the capital expenditures. This is more than simple repair. The work that has to happen is considered capital rather than an operating expense. A larger amount of VL1s were stored because they could simply replace those with VL2s.
 
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Yes most of the cars stored were cars that came due for capital overhaul work during the financial lapse/Covid period. Amtrak saved money by parking the equipment and deferring the capital expenditures. This is more than simple repair. The work that has to happen is considered capital rather than an operating expense. A larger amount of VL1s were stored because they could simply replace those with VL2s.
The obvious facepalm here is that every time Amtrak asked for money, they got it. In a few cases, though, they just didn't ask and then did this stupid stuff.
 
Looks like Amtrak has started the process for the replacement of the long-distance fleet.

https://media.amtrak.com/2023/01/amtrak-starts-the-process-for-new-overnight-trains/
(The release is from January 2023)

Like all large procurements, this is going to take a few years before the new rolling stock is delivered. Not sure of the current status, but I would suspect that they haven't done much more than make requests for information from the naufacturers and maybe had some internal meetings to organize the procurement.
 
The obvious facepalm here is that every time Amtrak asked for money, they got it. In a few cases, though, they just didn't ask and then did this stupid stuff.
Well with this its technically not the case. Amtrak informed Congress that it would have to cut to tri weekly service and furlough employees (deferring overhauls was part of this) in FY21 when the initial COVID stimulus package ran out without supplemental funding and that funding would have to be given by a certain date in order for them to continue normal operations. Congress considered additional COVID relief but ultimately declined to pass any supplemental funding before FY21 began and thus the cuts took place - there was an effort by a couple Senators to pass something requiring Amtrak not to move ahead with reductions but Congress ultimately did not pass that - one could interpret that as a tacit approval of Amtrak's plan by the Congress at the time. The funding to rescind the cuts wasn't finally given until a few months later after the election and new Congress was seated. There's certainly an argument to be made that they should have ridden things out and burnt through reserves since Congress would probably eventually act due to the hole the cuts would put them in which would take far longer to recover from (RPA made this exact point), but it is of course easier to say that with 20/20 hindsight as well.
 
Like all large procurements, this is going to take a few years before the new rolling stock is delivered. Not sure of the current status, but I would suspect that they haven't done much more than make requests for information from the naufacturers and maybe had some internal meetings to organize the procurement.
The expectation from amtrak was this fleet would start arriving late 2020s into early 2030s.
 
Have there been any updates? Have any options been released to the public?
Not that I am aware of. It is unlikely that anything will be released before vendor selection and determination of the shape of the order, since it is the vendors that will provide those as a proposal to fulfill the requirements in the RFP. The thing to look out for at present is the RFP and the requirements in it.
 
The actual order is supposed to be placed by the end of this year.

The RFP is supposed to be issued this year. The order will take longer.

For reference, the RFP to replace the Amfleets was issued in January 2019, and the Airo fleet was ordered in 2021.
 
The RFP is supposed to be issued this year. The order will take longer.

For reference, the RFP to replace the Amfleets was issued in January 2019, and the Airo fleet was ordered in 2021.

I believe that Covid delayed the Airo order by one year.

Amtrak anticipates releasing the new Superliner RFP in the near future and signing a contract for the next-generation coaches in late 2024.

I believe that Amtrak will stick with bi-level coaches and pick either Alstom or Stadler.
 
I believe that Covid delayed the Airo order by one year.

Amtrak anticipates releasing the new Superliner RFP in the near future and signing a contract for the next-generation coaches in late 2024.

I believe that Amtrak will stick with bi-level coaches and pick either Alstom or Stadler.
Extremely doubt they’ll be bilevel due to ADA requirements. The elevators required for ADA compliance are notoriously unreliable.
 
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