Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Excluding the Auto Train and PVs, what is Amtrak's longest reguler consist? I've heard Coast Starlight or Lake Shore Limited. Any longer ones?
If we exclude engines and baggage:Can't the EB in the summer between MSP and CHI be longer than the LSL in any season? (I'm not counting baggages)
EMPIRE BUILDER — 5 sets
2 cars CHI-MSP (seasonal)
----|---- [CHI-SEA] Heritage Baggage
0732|0832 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Dorm/Sleeper
0731|0831 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Sleeper
0730|0830 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Sleeper
----|---- [CHI-SEA] Superliner Diner
0711|0811 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Coach
0712|0812 [CHI-SEA] Superliner Coach
----|---- [CHI-PDX] Superliner Sightseer Lounge
2714|2814 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Coach
2715|2815 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Coach/Baggage
2730|2830 [CHI-PDX] Superliner Sleeper
0709|0809 [CHI-MSP] Superliner Coach*
* seasonal
LAKE SHORE LIMITED — 3 sets
----|---- [CHI-BOS] Heritage Baggage
4820|4920 [CHI-BOS] Viewliner Sleeper
4841|4941 [CHI-BOS] Amfleet II Coach
4840|4940 [CHI-BOS] Amfleet II Coach
----|---- [CHI-BOS] Lounge (Horizon or Amfleet I Dinette, or Amfleet II Lounge)
4833|4933 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4832|4932 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4831|4931 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
4830|4930 [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Coach
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Amfleet II Lounge
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Heritage Diner
4811|4911 [CHI-NYP] Viewliner Sleeper
4812|4912 [CHI-NYP] Viewliner Sleeper
----|---- [CHI-NYP] Heritage Baggage
I said in the OP that PVs DONT'T COUNT! Unless you don't know what a PV is!Does Private Varnish count as Amtrak's rolling stock?
Can't the EB in the summer between MSP and CHI be longer than the LSL in any season? (I'm not counting baggages)
If we exclude engines and baggage:Can't the EB in the summer between MSP and CHI be longer than the LSL in any season? (I'm not counting baggages)
Empire Builder in peak season: 3 sleepers (2 Seattle, 1 Portland), 1 dorm, 1 lounge, 1 diner, five coaches (2 Seattle, 2 Portland, 1 MSP). Total, 11 cars. There are extremely rare occasions where you get more than that (I think, after a recent disruption had the route shut down for a couple of days, there was an extra coach on both the Seattle and Portland sides to clear the loads), but practically speaking, the Builder's max is 11 cars.
Incidentally, that's also the same max that you'll see on the Starlight: 1 dorm, 3 sleepers, 1 Parlour, 1 diner, 1 lounge, 4 coaches.
The Lake Shore has 3 sleepers, six coaches, a diner and a lounge. Total, 11 cars. However, sometimes, the Lake Shore will run with a seventh coach, and during the winter (though not right now), the Lake Shore can get a second lounge so the New York section's consist can rotate with the Silver Star down to Florida. That would put the Lake Shore at 12 cars, which beats the Empire Builder by one.
Of course, the Builder wins when counting total capacity, since Superliners carry more than Amfleets/Viewliners do.
Total of 18 cars.P42DC #30 - ITCS leader Consist for 29/Capitol Limited P42DC #141
P42DC #142
Heritage Baggage #1242
Superliner II Transition Sleeper #39037
Superliner I Sleeper #32021
Superliner I Sleeper #32059
Superliner I Diner #38034
Superliner I Sightseer Lounge #33021
Superliner I Coach #34005 (Phase IV with SUPERLINER billboard lettering)
Superliner I Coach #31019
Consist for 49/Lake Shore Limited
P42DC #71 (mid train helpers... haha)
P42DC #56
Heritage converted Baggage #1712
Viewliner Sleeper #62015 Inland View
Viewliner Sleeper #62045
Heritage Diner #8528
Amfleet II Lounge #28003
4 Amfleet II coaches (first one is #25039, sorry, no other road numbers)
See reply #7, which was posted two hours before your question.How long is the LSL these days including baggage cars?
I think the Auto Train runs up against the HEP limitation for consist length, so even if there were more cars to be added, during peak season the Auto Train is already as long as it can be.Even the 3/4 mile long Autotrain sells out during peak season. This only confirms the need for more equipment but presently there is none and no Superliners are even on order.
I'll agree that such is a "when" (inflation being what it is, nominal $5 gas is inevitable provided that the dollar endures long enough), but I'm not sure that $5 gas is coming in the next year or two. I think $4+ gas may be the new normal (at least, during summers, though $3-3.50 will probably have supporting roles in this show during the winter), but $5 is still a little ways off,* at least on a national basis (Hawai'i does not matter for our purposes). It's a long way from $4 to $5.One point worthy of mention is that many Amtrak routes experience their share of sold out trains. If Amtrak were able to make up a consist based on the number of travelers who want to ride the train, revenues would be so much higher. Even the 3/4 mile long Autotrain sells out during peak season. This only confirms the need for more equipment but presently there is none and no Superliners are even on order. Amtrak is continually pressured to take less of a subsidy from congress but they have repeatedly refused to give Amtrak the tools that it needs to grow. Still they continue to grow and when gas hits $5 per gallon their ridership could explode.
Specially considering that Amtrak or is it FRA(?) does not allow split double HEP circuits in a train with two sections being fed from two different HEP source, which is a common practice in India on super long trains.I think the Auto Train runs up against the HEP limitation for consist length, so even if there were more cars to be added, during peak season the Auto Train is already as long as it can be.
Oh, but I have been on it with 30 cars, though three of them were deadhead.Its not Amtrak, but during the peak travel season VIA's Canadian runs with up to 20 cars, including the baggage.
I have to wonder, with VIA's HEP configuration of dual 440v lines running both sides of the cars, what their consist limit is? If you are pushing the legal limit for HEP on Amtrak's Auto Train with the current consist, you have to think about the differences between two fleets and which one works better over-all for flexibility.Oh, but I have been on it with 30 cars, though three of them were deadhead.
We may see something like in this direction if the Iowa Pacific Company plans to add a special Pullman set of cars onto the Lake Shore Limited and I guess the City of New Orleans pan out. They have a very short web site placeholder. Details are sketchy, but the company has or is refurbishing a number of Pullman cars for a premium sleeper and diner service to operate on a regular schedule between NYC, Chicago, and New Orleans. Thread at the Trains Magazine site with some information on this plan.Are there any circumstances where Amtrak would be under enough pressure to at least consider leasing the Hi-Levels from Illinois for a few years to fill a gap (for example, throwing them in as a set of corridor-on-LD cars)? I know that Amtrak does not want to operate these cars, but considering the equipment jam...let's just say that "want" and "need" may increasingly be two different things.** The Superliner shortage is only "deterministic" with sleepers, not coaches.***
When was the last time VIA ordered new equipment (not including locomotives) for its LD fleet or corridor trains? {seriously off-topic for this thread though]The other question I have is whether Amtrak could approach VIA about a joint order the next time VIA puts in a bid of some kind (and I would extend this to some of the mass transit agencies if they end up placing single-level orders for something...if the extent of the difference between the cars is a bathroom and legroom, I don't see a problem piggybacking)?
New cars actually ordered by VIA for their services? The 1970's order for what are now known as LRC, of which the last cars to roll off the line were mid-1980's. The Renaissance/NightStar cars were a fluke; a whole fleet of brand new but half-finished cars that Alstrom needed to get rid of badly or just send to the scrapper. An offer VIA could not refuse due to the junk-stock price tag.When was the last time VIA ordered new equipment (not including locomotives) for its LD fleet or corridor trains? {seriously off-topic for this thread though]
Most of the popular long-distance express trains in India are now 24 car long, and pulled by a single electric or diesel locomotive. I once had the fortune of riding in a 24 car long train being pulled by a single 3100hp diesel locomotive, over a section involving significant grades. It was fun to hear the poor locomotive growl as it chugged its way through the hills!There are several trains in India that are 24 cars these days. And surprisingly they are all pulled by single electric engines, usually WAP4 or WAP7 Co-Co units.
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