Metrolink Wreck

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
trying to disprove a theory that more or less is consistent with the known facts
or that an adversely set switch cannot be run through in a trailing direction without noticing a bump in a well sprung passenger car or locomotive
I defer to the real live conductor I spoke to.

Now, assuming you are a railroading professional, please answer this honestly - Is texting a routine way for engineers and conductors to work around an obsolete, overloaded radio system, as I noted in my original post?

RailCon BuffDaddy
So your going by the word of ONE conductor as absolute authority on what may or may not be felt on a trailing switch? Maybe you should poll a significant percentage of crew to find out if it really is detectable.

I've listened to hundreds of hours of the radio conversations in this entire area and can say that these frequencies are not used more that 1-5%, and are far from overloaded or obsolete.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know if the issue of passengers and freight sharing the same track ever comes up here, but if you truly want to get to the root cause of this tragedy, that would be the place to look, imho.

RailCon BuffDaddy
Really! Do you know anything about railroads and their operation? I say that probably 95% of passenger rail traffic is on lines shared with freight and usually owned by the freight line. That has been true for nearly the entire life of railroading.
 
The questions I raised in my original post remain unanswered. Anyone who can accept "texting" as the cause of the Chatsworth accident is delusional or naive. All the time-tested safety protocols built into our railway system seem to have failed at one particular instant, supposedly allowing the Metrolink engineer to run through a switch set against him - AND NO ONE NOTICED??? Now, let the ad hominem attack continue...

RailCon BuffDaddy
The only safety protocol was the danger signal. That danger signal, or red light, told that engineer that he needed to stop his train and wait; period!

Now if drivers in cars can blaze through red lights every day in this country because they are distracted by texting, why is it that you cannot believe that an engineer can't be distracted. These men & women aren't super heros. They are just ordinary people who have been given specific training to do their jobs. They either use the skills they learned and obey the rules of the road, or bad things happen.

Now in the future, PTC will prevent this type of accident. But unfortunately that technology wasn't in use at that time on that line.

By the way, up in Boston they had a trolley accident about a year ago or so, where one trolley rear ended another trolley. The cause? Texting!

As for the conductor and the trailing switch, I highly doubt that most working conductors today have ever passed through a switch set against them. They wouldn't know what it felt like. And one reason that I know most conductors have never passed through a switch set against them is the fact that any crew doing so would be suspended and quite probably fired on the spot. That is a very serious rules violation, not to mention an expense that no company wants. So it simply doesn't happen with any regularity.

Perhaps in a yard it might happen a bit more, but even there it would be rare. On a mainline, it is not a common thing at all.
 
Time to add another track on that line. Maybe that would help?
What a wonderful, sensible, rational suggestion! Unfortunately, this is in California, and the titanic business interests here have been dickering with high-speed passenger rail for decades - LA to SF! No, LA to Las Vegas! Well, let's start in Fresno and work it out later! Meanwhile, this particular section of single track includes three tunnels built in 1904, with the west tunnel exiting into a 90 degree curve (the NTSB Report says 6 degrees, but that's per each 100 feet, I believe), and what lies beyond the curve is hidden behind a giant rock formation known as Stony Point. I have previously mentioned the train near-disaster I witnessed from atop Stony Point many years ago. Fortunately, that freight was traveling slowly enough to stop within the track curve. Having a 40 mph speed limit on this section of track was a disaster waiting to happen - and it did.

RailCon BuffDaddy
 
The only safety protocol was the danger signal. That danger signal, or red light, told that engineer that he needed to stop his train and wait; period!
And what does the conductor do - punch tickets and lead the passengers in old railroading songs? What if the engineer is incapacitated? What is the emergency cord for - or have budget cuts eliminated them?

As for the conductor and the trailing switch, I highly doubt that most working conductors today have ever passed through a switch set against them. They wouldn't know what it felt like. And one reason that I know most conductors have never passed through a switch set against them is the fact that any crew doing so would be suspended and quite probably fired on the spot. That is a very serious rules violation, not to mention an expense that no company wants. So it simply doesn't happen with any regularity.
Perhaps in a yard it might happen a bit more, but even there it would be rare. On a mainline, it is not a common thing at all.
Gee, how would anyone know? Unless they hit an oncoming train, that is. And I'm sorry but I cannot not tell what kind of switch was used at CP Topanga, but I will bet it's not the economical spring switch seen in the East and also popular with model railroaders.

RailCon BuffDaddy
 
Time to add another track on that line. Maybe that would help?
What a wonderful, sensible, rational suggestion! Unfortunately, this is in California, and the titanic business interests here have been dickering with high-speed passenger rail for decades - LA to SF! No, LA to Las Vegas! Well, let's start in Fresno and work it out later! Meanwhile, this particular section of single track includes three tunnels built in 1904, with the west tunnel exiting into a 90 degree curve (the NTSB Report says 6 degrees, but that's per each 100 feet, I believe), and what lies beyond the curve is hidden behind a giant rock formation known as Stony Point. I have previously mentioned the train near-disaster I witnessed from atop Stony Point many years ago. Fortunately, that freight was traveling slowly enough to stop within the track curve. Having a 40 mph speed limit on this section of track was a disaster waiting to happen - and it did.

RailCon BuffDaddy
And once again, if we follow your logic, most Interstate Highways would have speed limits of 50 MPH maximum, since in far too many places you would not be able to stop in time if something went wrong. Instead we often have mega accidents with multiple cars involved and sometimes even trucks & buses. And we've just several horrible bus accidents on the East Coast where I live, several of which were caused by drivers not following the rules of the road. Which is what the NTSB has concluded happened with the Metrolink accident, the driver didn't pay attention properly.

So based upon one bad train accident you want the trains to go 10 MPH around that curve, yet you don't seem at all upset with the thousands killed each year on our roads & highways. Please explain that to me. Where is your outrage for the carnage on the highways? Where are all your posts asking for lower speed limits on our highways?

I don't understand.
 
The only safety protocol was the danger signal. That danger signal, or red light, told that engineer that he needed to stop his train and wait; period!
And what does the conductor do - punch tickets and lead the passengers in old railroading songs? What if the engineer is incapacitated? What is the emergency cord for - or have budget cuts eliminated them?
Now you're just being silly. I'm sorry! I think that I've been very patient with you in trying to explain things to you; but stuff about RR songs is just foolish on your part. If you wish to continue the discussion, please refrain from such nonsense or I will put an end to things.

As for the conductor, they have multiple duties, including things like taking tickets, opening/closing doors, reminding the engineer of slow orders, documenting delays and why they happened, etc. But one thing the conductor cannot do is see the signals from inside the coaches. So unless the conductor saw the next signal from the platform or the engineer radioed him to say that the signal was at danger, the conductor would not know that the engineer had run a red light and he would not pull the emergency cord.

As for the conductor and the trailing switch, I highly doubt that most working conductors today have ever passed through a switch set against them. They wouldn't know what it felt like. And one reason that I know most conductors have never passed through a switch set against them is the fact that any crew doing so would be suspended and quite probably fired on the spot. That is a very serious rules violation, not to mention an expense that no company wants. So it simply doesn't happen with any regularity.
Perhaps in a yard it might happen a bit more, but even there it would be rare. On a mainline, it is not a common thing at all.
Gee, how would anyone know? Unless they hit an oncoming train, that is. And I'm sorry but I cannot not tell what kind of switch was used at CP Topanga, but I will bet it's not the economical spring switch seen in the East and also popular with model railroaders.

RailCon BuffDaddy
IIRC, George already noted what type of switch was at CP Topanga. But I do know that it was not a spring switch. That changes nothing!

All the engine did was shove/bend the very thin ends of the switch that normally move back & forth to control which track a train moves on to. While neither you nor I could physically bend those points on the switch, it would be mere child's play for the engine to bend/shove those points. No one, save the engineer, would ever notice that those points had been bent from inside the train. To them it would feel just like every other switch that they would normally go over. Only someone standing next to the switch after the train had fully passed over it would ever know that the switch had been damaged by the engine. And that assumes that they know what to look for.
 
Cant be that expensive, it only takes few miles of tracks to prevent it from happening.

Although its curious why Surfliners and Starlight has never been involved in these kinds of accidents or was there ever one?
 
Cant be that expensive, it only takes few miles of tracks to prevent it from happening.
Railroad track construction costs millions of dollars per mile, and that's on straight, flat land. When you're winding through mountains, those costs can go up tenfold (or higher). Yeah, "cant be that expensive."

Although its curious why Surfliners and Starlight has never been involved in these kinds of accidents or was there ever one?
Why is it curious? The Surfliners, Starlight, freight trains, and the many other Metrolink trains that operate over that very same segment of track weren't involved in those kinds of accidents because the engineers were paying attention to their job.
 
Cant be that expensive, it only takes few miles of tracks to prevent it from happening.

Although its curious why Surfliners and Starlight has never been involved in these kinds of accidents or was there ever one?
The statement that "it takes just a few miles of track to prevent it", is about as absurd as it gets. OK, so it will prevent it from happening at that point, but that still leaves many many miles of single track elsewhere. You don't build second tracks to facilitate engineers not paying attention to their signals. That is what they get paid for. You build second tracks if the capacity is needed.

Engineers who do not pay attention to their signals are derelict in their duty and should stop being engineers, and not force everyone else to pay with lives and money to put in additional tracks so that they can run red signals safely.

Engineers generally do their jobs well, that is why Surfliners and Starlight and Metrolinks don't get into such accidents.
 
Cant be that expensive, it only takes few miles of tracks to prevent it from happening.
Railroad track construction costs millions of dollars per mile, and that's on straight, flat land. When you're winding through mountains, those costs can go up tenfold (or higher). Yeah, "cant be that expensive."

Although its curious why Surfliners and Starlight has never been involved in these kinds of accidents or was there ever one?
Why is it curious? The Surfliners, Starlight, freight trains, and the many other Metrolink trains that operate over that very same segment of track weren't involved in those kinds of accidents because the engineers were paying attention to their job.
I guess at the end of the day being careless is the issue huh.

Millions isnt a lot when you put it in perspective really. Many projects costs the government billions rather easily.
 
Time to add another track on that line. Maybe that would help?
What a wonderful, sensible, rational suggestion! Unfortunately, this is in California, and the titanic business interests here have been dickering with high-speed passenger rail for decades - LA to SF! No, LA to Las Vegas! Well, let's start in Fresno and work it out later! Meanwhile, this particular section of single track includes three tunnels built in 1904, with the west tunnel exiting into a 90 degree curve (the NTSB Report says 6 degrees, but that's per each 100 feet, I believe), and what lies beyond the curve is hidden behind a giant rock formation known as Stony Point. I have previously mentioned the train near-disaster I witnessed from atop Stony Point many years ago. Fortunately, that freight was traveling slowly enough to stop within the track curve. Having a 40 mph speed limit on this section of track was a disaster waiting to happen - and it did.

RailCon BuffDaddy
OK, you do have it right on this one. The 90 degrees was the approximate total change of direction. The 6 degrees was the change of dirction in 100 feet. This method of defining the radius of railroad curves has been in use for a very long time.

Ah, "titanic business interests . . . decades, . . ." blah, blah. Another conspiricy theory. There are many reasons that the high speed railroad has not gotten started. Politics, various pressure groups, NIMBYS, it costs too much, its in the wrong place, no one is going to ride it, it will destroy the environment, it goes through the only known habitat of __, the requirement to perform studies to suit every govenment agency and pressure group affected or that think the are or might be, and on and on.

Most of all it is completely irrelvant to the issue being discussed here. Whether or not the HSR is built has no relation to the tunnel and track alignment here or any plan to do anything with it. (So far as I know there is not plan to do anything here.) Whether the tunnels were built in 1904, 2004, or 1804 is also of no significance. There clearances, grades, lining condition, and such like are significant to the tunnels, the track, and passage of trains through them but in no shape or fashion to the accident.

When you look at the distance between the switch run through and the point of collision, is is absolutely obvious that even if the track had been straight for miles there would have been no way for the freight train to stop before hitting the Metrolink train. And: If the metrolink engineer failed to observed the signal indication that was in his face and the switch position that he could easily see if he simply looked at it, what would make anyone think he would pay attention to a freight train a thousand or so feet away if it had been positioned where he could see it?

As JIS said:

The statement that "it takes just a few miles of track to prevent it", is about as absurd as it gets. OK, so it will prevent it from happening at that point, but that still leaves many many miles of single track elsewhere. You don't build second tracks to facilitate engineers not paying attention to their signals. That is what they get paid for. You build second tracks if the capacity is needed.
Engineers who do not pay attention to their signals are derelict in their duty and should stop being engineers, and not force everyone else to pay with lives and money to put in additional tracks so that they can run red signals safely.

Engineers generally do their jobs well, that is why Surfliners and Starlight and Metrolinks don't get into such accidents.

The turnout was and is a number 20 turnout which is safe and comfortable for and had a speed limit of 40 mph. The switch was power operated. As to the run through not being noticed, this has already been explained well by Alan.

All the engine did was shove/bend the very thin ends of the switch that normally move back & forth to control which track a train moves on to. While neither you nor I could physically bend those points on the switch, it would be mere child's play for the engine to bend/shove those points. No one, save the engineer, would ever notice that those points had been bent from inside the train. To them it would feel just like every other switch that they would normally go over. Only someone standing next to the switch after the train had fully passed over it would ever know that the switch had been damaged by the engine. And that assumes that they know what to look for.
As someone who has been involved in this sort of stuff, I can say that if it were decided TODAY to add a few miles of double track west of Chatsworth including rebuilding the tunnels, it would probably be about 10 years before they would be in service, and that would be if no one fights the project. The cost I would not want to even guess, but it is reasonably certain that $100 million would not get you there. And, as has been said, this would be for capacity, not for safety reasons. The safety issues were and are being dealt with by other means. Reality says that you cannot prevent everything all the time. If you think it is possible, they you are delusional. There is not enough money in the USA to eliminate all possibilities of collisions of all kinds in all places. As Alan has said, the highest death and injury rates per mile traveled are on the roads, not the rails.
 
I really think your readers are entitled to read this - please post it!

You all DO realize that the freight train had an engineer, a conductor AND a brakeman in the cab while the Metrolink had ONE engineer with 125 passengers depending entirely upon his vigilance for their safety (so you say), don't you? And is anyone curious as to WHY the Metrolink engineer AND the ticket-punching conductor thought it was SAFE to leave the Chatsworth station in the first place, when they HAD TO HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE BY THE DISPATCHER THAT THE LEESDALE LOCAL FREIGHT WAS ONCOMING? Oh, wait - the conductor survived, let's ask him on his company-issued cell phone...

Oh, and if you read through the NTSB report very carefully, you notice that all mention of MULTIPLE SIGNALS AT CP TOPANGA have been redacted - except ONE ON PAGE 50, which they seem to have overlooked...

RailCon BuffDaddy
 
I really think your readers are entitled to read this - please post it!

You all DO realize that the freight train had an engineer, a conductor AND a brakeman in the cab while the Metrolink had ONE engineer with 125 passengers depending entirely upon his vigilance for their safety (so you say), don't you? And is anyone curious as to WHY the Metrolink engineer AND the ticket-punching conductor thought it was SAFE to leave the Chatsworth station in the first place, when they HAD TO HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE BY THE DISPATCHER THAT THE LEESDALE LOCAL FREIGHT WAS ONCOMING? Oh, wait - the conductor survived, let's ask him on his company-issued cell phone...
It is highly unlikely that the dispatcher would have radioed the Metrolink train to tell them about the freight train. The crew doesn't need to know why they have a red signal, they only need to know that the signal is red and that they must stop their train.

As for why they would leave the station, do you stop your car 3 blocks away from a red light? No! You pull up to the light and stop. Train engineers would do the same, they pull up and stop just short of the red light. So no matter whether the light was green or red, the conductor would indicate to the engineer that all doors are closed and that he can safely move the train.

Finally, while I do seem to recall that the freight train had 3 people in the cab, the position of brakeman no longer exists in railroading. That third person was most likely a supervisor or something. I will concede however that had a conductor been up in the cab, it is likely that this accident never would have happened. Or at the very least, the impact would have been minimized as the conductor could have hit the mushroom and stopped the train after it rode through the switch.

Oh, and if you read through the NTSB report very carefully, you notice that all mention of MULTIPLE SIGNALS AT CP TOPANGA have been redacted - except ONE ON PAGE 50, which they seem to have overlooked...
RailCon BuffDaddy
So, if you were a policeman investigating a traffic accident, would you fill out your report in such a way as to let everyone know that the traffic light 2 blocks away from the accident was green at the time of the accident? Who cares that there were other signals? It is irrelevant to the accident. There is only 1 signal that matters, the signal controlling the Metrolink train. All the other signals have nothing to do with the accident! They are not part of the equation. Talking about those other signals is about as useful as talking about that traffic light 2 blocks away. The other signals didn't cause the accident, they didn't trigger the accident, and they have nothing to do with the accident report.

Please stop looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one!
 
Railcon,

One other request/FYI, please understand that there are only a 6 staff members who can approve guest posts, and 2 of them are currently in transit on trains to Seattle. A third leaves tomorrow. That means that all the burden falls on the remaining 3, unless I have a good signal from my train, to approve those posts. And all of us are volunteers, we don't get paid to sit here waiting for the next post.

So please be patient if it takes a couple of hours before your post shows up. It's not necessary to post the same thing multiple times.

Thanks for understanding this! :)
 
I really think your readers are entitled to read this - please post it!

You all DO realize that the freight train had an engineer, a conductor AND a brakeman in the cab while the Metrolink had ONE engineer with 125 passengers depending entirely upon his vigilance for their safety (so you say), don't you? And is anyone curious as to WHY the Metrolink engineer AND the ticket-punching conductor thought it was SAFE to leave the Chatsworth station in the first place, when they HAD TO HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE BY THE DISPATCHER THAT THE LEESDALE LOCAL FREIGHT WAS ONCOMING? Oh, wait - the conductor survived, let's ask him on his company-issued cell phone...
If the normal procedure was followed the Metrolink Conductor would have said something like "OK to proceed on signal indication". Then it is the job of the Engineer to make sure that he is following signal indication, which in this case he clearly didn't. OTOH, the Freight crew did follow their signal indication. And yes, Engineers get paid to be vigilant and be responsible for the safety of their train. If they can't cut it they should not be engineers.

It is unlikely that the dispatcher under normal circumstances would call to just let them know why the signal was red. And in any case even if the dispatcher said the line was clear, an Engineer is really not authorized to disobey a red signal based on just a random conversation. To override a home signal it takes a track warrant which must be copied down on a specified form before an adverse home signal can be passed. In general signal indication always takes precedence over random conversations. Only specific procedure duly followed can authorize overriding of a signal indication, and it takes three people to agree on the authorization before it can be put in motion.

So all procedures were followed, except the Engineer failed to carry out his part. Plain and simple.

Oh, and if you read through the NTSB report very carefully, you notice that all mention of MULTIPLE SIGNALS AT CP TOPANGA have been redacted - except ONE ON PAGE 50, which they seem to have overlooked...
As Alan says, there is no reason to mention other signals that have no bearing on the facts of the accident.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I really think your readers are entitled to read this - please post it!

You all DO realize that the freight train had an engineer, a conductor AND a brakeman in the cab while the Metrolink had ONE engineer with 125 passengers depending entirely upon his vigilance for their safety (so you say), don't you? And is anyone curious as to WHY the Metrolink engineer AND the ticket-punching conductor thought it was SAFE to leave the Chatsworth station in the first place, when they HAD TO HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE BY THE DISPATCHER THAT THE LEESDALE LOCAL FREIGHT WAS ONCOMING? Oh, wait - the conductor survived, let's ask him on his company-issued cell phone...
If the normal procedure was followed the Metrolink Conductor would have said something like "OK to proceed on signal indication". Then it is the job of the Engineer to make sure that he is following signal indication, which in this case he clearly didn't. OTOH, the Freight crew did follow their signal indication. And yes, Engineers get paid to be vigilant and be responsible for the safety of their train. If they can't cut it they should not be engineers.

It is unlikely that the dispatcher under normal circumstances would call to just let them know why the signal was red. And in any case even if the dispatcher said the line was clear, an Engineer is really not authorized to disobey a red signal based on just a random conversation. To override a home signal it takes a track warrant which must be copied down on a specified form before an adverse home signal can be passed. In general signal indication always takes precedence over random conversations. Only specific procedure duly followed can authorize overriding of a signal indication, and it takes three people to agree on the authorization before it can be put in motion.

So all procedures were followed, except the Engineer failed to carry out his part. Plain and simple.

Oh, and if you read through the NTSB report very carefully, you notice that all mention of MULTIPLE SIGNALS AT CP TOPANGA have been redacted - except ONE ON PAGE 50, which they seem to have overlooked...
As Alan says, there is no reason to mention other signals that have no bearing on the facts of the accident.

Sorry you still don;t have a case that can stand on its own two feet.
If a dispatcher doesn't use the radio to tell opposing train traffic what train(s) to wait for, WHY do they need a radio at all? Perhaps you would like to give us a concise, jargon-free explanation of CTC?

Next, let me remind everyone what the uncropped picture of CP Topanga is:

[image]http://www.justiceandrailroadsafety.com/files/Photo2RedSignalsatCPTopanga.jpg[/image]

This is what the Metrolink conductor and witnesses were all seeing FROM A MILE AWAY - TWO SIGNALS 40 FEET APART. I SUPPOSE THEY ALL KNEW TO IGNORE THE ONE ON THE LEFT (sarcasm). And if one is going to quote chapter and verse on regulations and procedures, it would be natural to assume there is good reason. Did the nature of that section of track have anything to do with THREE PEOPLE being in the freight cab? Yet Metrolink had only ONE with 125 passengers lives in the balance?

RailCon BuffDaddy
 
I think it is time we all gave up on trying to reason with this guy and simply ignore anything he says further. It should be obvious by now that he has his mind completely closed to anything that does not agree with his pet theory. It would be interesting to know what the conductor he talked to really said. It may not bear any resemblence to what RailCon is saying he said.
 
If a dispatcher doesn't use the radio to tell opposing train traffic what train(s) to wait for, WHY do they need a radio at all? Perhaps you would like to give us a concise, jargon-free explanation of CTC?
They use the radio to copy track warrants in places where there are no signals, to get permission to proceed if a signal fails, so that the conductor can tell the train to move, and various other reasons. But they rarely use it to tell the crew that a freight train is coming in the other direction. I've traveled from NY to California over the past few days via train listening in to the radio chatter, what there is of it, and not once in over 2,000 miles has a dispatcher informed our train's crew that a freight is coming the other way. Heck, we sat for 20 minutes yesterday at a red signal waiting for our eastbound sister train with the crew guessing that's why we had a red signal. Not once did the dispatcher call the crew to confirm that's why we had a red light.

Next, let me remind everyone what the uncropped picture of CP Topanga is:[image]http://www.justiceandrailroadsafety.com/files/Photo2RedSignalsatCPTopanga.jpg[/image]
Please stop reminding us! It is a useless picture. It proves nothing!

This is what the Metrolink conductor and witnesses were all seeing FROM A MILE AWAY - TWO SIGNALS 40 FEET APART. I SUPPOSE THEY ALL KNEW TO IGNORE THE ONE ON THE LEFT (sarcasm). And if one is going to quote chapter and verse on regulations and procedures, it would be natural to assume there is good reason. Did the nature of that section of track have anything to do with THREE PEOPLE being in the freight cab? Yet Metrolink had only ONE with 125 passengers lives in the balance?
RailCon BuffDaddy
No, the Metrolink conductor would be lucky if he could even see any signals from where he was located. Yes, I agree that the engineer could see both. And you can save your sarcasm. The engineer would never look at the other signal. You don't pass the test to get your license to drive trains if you don't know which signal controls the movements of the track you are on.

Besides, there is no way that both signals could have been green. The only possible combinations are that is 1 is green and 1 is red or both are red. If both signals were green, then it's an accident waiting to happen. But again, the system would not permit such a condition.
 
I've traveled from NY to California over the past few days via train listening in to the radio chatter, what there is of it, and not once in over 2,000 miles has a dispatcher informed our train's crew that a freight is coming the other way. Heck, we sat for 20 minutes yesterday at a red signal waiting for our eastbound sister train with the crew guessing that's why we had a red signal. Not once did the dispatcher call the crew to confirm that's why we had a red light.
If I had to travel across the US by train, I would want to be in the cab with every other engineer on my cell phone speed dial - is that where you were? You might want to read the "railway signaling" entry in wikipedia, btw. It seems they had better safety protocols 150 years ago - and I'm NOT being sarcastic.

Please stop reminding us! It is a useless picture. It proves nothing!
I wonder if a juror might feel differently...

Besides, there is no way that both signals could have been green. The only possible combinations are that is 1 is green and 1 is red or both are red. If both signals were green, then it's an accident waiting to happen. But again, the system would not permit such a condition.
If the red was poorly visible, then the conductor and witnesses might not have been able to tell WHICH signal was green from a mile away. Also, NONE of you want to acknowledge that the burden you place upon the single Metrolink engineer is MADNESS - WHAT HAPPENS IF HE HAS A HEART ATTACK?
 
You really need to learn more about railroading.

If he has a heart attack, the train stops. Here's up it works: If a set period of time goes by without the engineer making any inputs (change the throttle, apply/release the brakes, sound the horn, etc) then a little buzzer goes off and then engineer hits a button to acknowledge the fact.

If the engineer doesn't hit the button (if for example because he's had a heart attack), the train automatically stops.
 
Also, NONE of you want to acknowledge that the burden you place upon the single Metrolink engineer is MADNESS - WHAT HAPPENS IF HE HAS A HEART ATTACK?
I'll tell you what would happen of he had a heart attack! The train would automatically stop!
rolleyes.gif
Every locomotive has a "dead man's switch" which is a button that must be pushed every ___ seconds (to show if he/she is awake). If this button is not pushed, the train stops automatically!

[Moderator hat on]

I feel some of this discussion is getting out of line. The above is one such statement. If you do not know how railroads operate, PLEASE do not post as if you do!
rolleyes.gif
Otherwise, this thread may need to be closed!

[Moderator hat off]
 
Back
Top